Jun 24, 2014, 2:19 am
Last edit by: soitgoes
IHG Account Termination Fact Summary
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
4. Membership Cancellation. SCH reserves the right to cancel any IHG®Rewards Club membership and revoke any and all unredeemed IHG® Rewards Club points collected by any member for reasons that include, but are not limited to: 1) violation of these Terms and Conditions; 2) misrepresentation of any information or any misuse of this Program; 3) violation of any national, state or local law or regulation in connection with the use of membership privileges; 4) failure to pay for hotel charges; 5) a check to a participating hotel brand that is returned for insufficient funds or is invalid for any reason; 6) commission of fraud or abuse involving any portion of this Program; 7) more than one active account per member; or 8) physical, verbal, or written abuse of hotel or IHG personnel; or 9) action, in any other way, to the detriment of the Program or any of its alliances; all as may be determined by SCH in its sole discretion.
IHG Account Terminated (after registering for several promotion codes)
Jun 7, 2014, 4:50 am
#136
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MAN
Programs: BA Blue, Priority Club Plat (again!), Marriott Rewards Gold
Posts: 541
Indeed johhenrik, whether these codes are targeted or not, they are clearly in the public domain, flyertalk even have a sticky thread with these listed.
There are official IHG lurkers on this forum and will surely know they are here, have they ever requested to an administrator that these should be removed?
There are official IHG lurkers on this forum and will surely know they are here, have they ever requested to an administrator that these should be removed?
Jun 7, 2014, 5:00 am
#137
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: RTW
Programs: MR Ag, LH FTL
Posts: 947
IHG apologists and never cease to amaze me... Now apparently even asking IHG if the code is OK (and getting confirmation of that) is not good enough for them. 
What a comical intermix of schadenfreude, sadomasochism, "the Master is always right" and striving to be holier than the Master (IHG)...
What a comical intermix of schadenfreude, sadomasochism, "the Master is always right" and striving to be holier than the Master (IHG)...
Jun 7, 2014, 5:11 am
#138
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ARN
Programs: BAEC Gold, TK*Elite+, EBD, FBG, EKS, IHG Royal Ambassador
Posts: 768
Well, in all honesty. Asking customer care, whether it be IHG or any other hotel chain or frequent flyer program, it's quite common to get the wrong answer. That is my experience. At least to questions that I have asked. Now, I am usually quite knowledgeble on the programs I use, so if I actually have a question, they tend to be tricky.
I have stopped calling customer care for information about details. The forums I use are regularly way better.
I have stopped calling customer care for information about details. The forums I use are regularly way better.
Jun 7, 2014, 6:39 am
#139
Moderator: InterContinental Hotels and Germany
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,552
A friendly reminder to stay on topic and avoid personal attacks or comments about the point of view of posters with no relation to the content.
This thread has been a few times quite close to being locked and I would prefer to leave it open.
Thank you for your cooperation.
FLYGVA
co-moderator IHG Forum
This thread has been a few times quite close to being locked and I would prefer to leave it open.
Thank you for your cooperation.
FLYGVA
co-moderator IHG Forum
Jun 7, 2014, 7:01 am
#140
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,041
Indeed johhenrik, whether these codes are targeted or not, they are clearly in the public domain, flyertalk even have a sticky thread with these listed.
There are official IHG lurkers on this forum and will surely know they are here, have they ever requested to an administrator that these should be removed?
There are official IHG lurkers on this forum and will surely know they are here, have they ever requested to an administrator that these should be removed?
Jun 7, 2014, 10:08 am
#141
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
"Hi, I did not receive any notification of this offer -- presumably because you did not intend it for me -- but, I read about it on the Internet. May I use it nonetheless?"
Jun 7, 2014, 2:09 pm
#142
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,672
You did not read my post carefully. Of course I would not waste my time calling IHG or any other program about a code which I read about on an anonymous internet blog or forum. That is because I know the answer.
"Hi, I did not receive any notification of this offer -- presumably because you did not intend it for me -- but, I read about it on the Internet. May I use it nonetheless?"
"Hi, I did not receive any notification of this offer -- presumably because you did not intend it for me -- but, I read about it on the Internet. May I use it nonetheless?"
no2chem "wasted his time" and asked exactly that. He was told by IHG that the website would tell him if he's eligible or not.
HTB.
Jun 7, 2014, 4:38 pm
#143
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
As johhenrik pointed out, IHG representatives are aware this forum exists. They have a variety of tools to force the takedown of their codes at their disposal, such as the standard cease&desist letters. They could even post that the use of the codes posted is not permitted. But they haven't.
The whole promo code thing is a red herring anyway. The problem that the OP faced isn't that he used too many promo codes (I think, since many people use these promo codes without adverse effect), it is that he probably hit the threshold for unprofitably (I'm going to speculate that maybe he stayed at a low cost hotel, like a $49 HI, and generated more than $49 in points in one stay). My guess is that if he had a multi-night stay or a stay at a pricier hotel, he probably would have been ok.
Let's do some math. Assuming $0.006 per point (fairly high), generating merely 8,166 points would cause that $49 stay to be unprofitable for IHG. And that's fairly easy to do with a new account. If we assume that IHG values points at half of what we do, maybe the cut off is about 16k points per $50?
Last edited by no2chem; Jun 7, 2014 at 4:58 pm
Jun 8, 2014, 3:23 am
#144
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Amsterdam, Asia, UK
Programs: IHG RA (Spire), HH Diamond, MR Platinum, SQ Gold, KLM Gold, BAEC Gold
Posts: 5,072
Some blogged promo codes may be safer than others to use, eg recent set of stay xx nights for nn(K) points. Choosing stay 15nights for 10K or similar will not be un-profittable for IHG corporate, unlike having 1night-stay sweep a bunch of 1k/2k/3k/5k stacked promos for 25k+ bonus points from one stay.
Also maths in earlier posts is wonky. Bonus points are paid for by IHG corporate, not the individual hotel, ..... so a cheap 50usd HIE hotel night, booked on IHG.COM might give IHG corporate 10usd at 20% commission rate, with 40usd left remainder for the HIE hotel.
In this above example one stay on a newly opened account gives IHG 10usd commission, but costs 25k points, and could well lead to account auditing/closure.
Also maths in earlier posts is wonky. Bonus points are paid for by IHG corporate, not the individual hotel, ..... so a cheap 50usd HIE hotel night, booked on IHG.COM might give IHG corporate 10usd at 20% commission rate, with 40usd left remainder for the HIE hotel.
In this above example one stay on a newly opened account gives IHG 10usd commission, but costs 25k points, and could well lead to account auditing/closure.
Jun 8, 2014, 2:03 pm
#145
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
I wouldn't be surprised if things were such that a trigger is hit when batch queries are run looking for something like the ratio of points credited to folio amount hitting or exceeding an arbitrarily-established "excessive" ratio that was established independent of any measurable act of fraud.
Jun 9, 2014, 12:21 am
#146
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
Jun 9, 2014, 2:54 am
#147
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
At some IHG hotels I've stayed at some promo codes are publicly displayed, in the lifts or even at check in desk. Clearly those particular codes are intended (at least by the hotel's management) for general usage.
Jun 9, 2014, 3:32 am
#148
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
Jun 9, 2014, 4:24 am
#149
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
It is sad to read the posts on loyaltylobby. Also apologize for the poor math from earlier, scubaccr is right about that.
My guess is that they'll continue randomly shutting down accounts until they eventually hit someone with enough points and who is upset enough that they'll find themselves in court. Whether or not they will win is another story, but I can see someone that had their vacation ruined because IHG cancelled their account having a pretty good shot, especially at mediation, of claiming some damages against IHG (IANAL).
One legal theory under US law would be that IHG has committed equitable estoppel by suddenly cancelling accounts for using promo codes that have been used for a long time by others. IHG "seduced" customers with these promo codes, allowing customers to use them for years without having their accounts to be cancelled and suddenly decided to cancel accounts after they gained free marketing from bloggers and earned a reputation for being a rewarding rewards program. Customers had been under the impression that they were valid, relied on the fact that they were accepted that their website and widely posted as valid in public forums and paid for a significant amount of stays, hoping to earn points, only to be burned by the mass account cancellations. Some lawyer could probably write up a better argument for estoppel, but I think it surely applies here... and the doctrine of estoppel trumps IHG's T&Cs.
My guess is that they'll continue randomly shutting down accounts until they eventually hit someone with enough points and who is upset enough that they'll find themselves in court. Whether or not they will win is another story, but I can see someone that had their vacation ruined because IHG cancelled their account having a pretty good shot, especially at mediation, of claiming some damages against IHG (IANAL).
One legal theory under US law would be that IHG has committed equitable estoppel by suddenly cancelling accounts for using promo codes that have been used for a long time by others. IHG "seduced" customers with these promo codes, allowing customers to use them for years without having their accounts to be cancelled and suddenly decided to cancel accounts after they gained free marketing from bloggers and earned a reputation for being a rewarding rewards program. Customers had been under the impression that they were valid, relied on the fact that they were accepted that their website and widely posted as valid in public forums and paid for a significant amount of stays, hoping to earn points, only to be burned by the mass account cancellations. Some lawyer could probably write up a better argument for estoppel, but I think it surely applies here... and the doctrine of estoppel trumps IHG's T&Cs.
Jun 9, 2014, 4:54 am
#150
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
It is sad to read the posts on loyaltylobby. Also apologize for the poor math from earlier, scubaccr is right about that.
My guess is that they'll continue randomly shutting down accounts until they eventually hit someone with enough points and who is upset enough that they'll find themselves in court. Whether or not they will win is another story, but I can see someone that had their vacation ruined because IHG cancelled their account having a pretty good shot, especially at mediation, of claiming some damages against IHG (IANAL).
One legal theory under US law would be that IHG has committed equitable estoppel by suddenly cancelling accounts for using promo codes that have been used for a long time by others. IHG "seduced" customers with these promo codes, allowing customers to use them for years without having their accounts to be cancelled and suddenly decided to cancel accounts after they gained free marketing from bloggers and earned a reputation for being a rewarding rewards program. Customers had been under the impression that they were valid, relied on the fact that they were accepted that their website and widely posted as valid in public forums and paid for a significant amount of stays, hoping to earn points, only to be burned by the mass account cancellations. Some lawyer could probably write up a better argument for estoppel, but I think it surely applies here... and the doctrine of estoppel trumps IHG's T&Cs.
My guess is that they'll continue randomly shutting down accounts until they eventually hit someone with enough points and who is upset enough that they'll find themselves in court. Whether or not they will win is another story, but I can see someone that had their vacation ruined because IHG cancelled their account having a pretty good shot, especially at mediation, of claiming some damages against IHG (IANAL).
One legal theory under US law would be that IHG has committed equitable estoppel by suddenly cancelling accounts for using promo codes that have been used for a long time by others. IHG "seduced" customers with these promo codes, allowing customers to use them for years without having their accounts to be cancelled and suddenly decided to cancel accounts after they gained free marketing from bloggers and earned a reputation for being a rewarding rewards program. Customers had been under the impression that they were valid, relied on the fact that they were accepted that their website and widely posted as valid in public forums and paid for a significant amount of stays, hoping to earn points, only to be burned by the mass account cancellations. Some lawyer could probably write up a better argument for estoppel, but I think it surely applies here... and the doctrine of estoppel trumps IHG's T&Cs.
In the UK getting this sorted out would be relatively straight forward.
To remind .... as we've argued about extensively here in the past on earlier threads - there are at least two separate issues at play.
1. IHG's right to close any account they wish.
2. Confiscating accounts points balances genuinely earned within the rules or purchased.
In the UK I cannot see any legal reason why IHG cannot choose who they choose to have as members and who they choose not to. That is fair enough. It seems to me that they can terminate memberships at whim without even the need to provide an explanation except when required to under data protection or potential discrimination questions. They cannot however arbitrarily steal all points balances whatever their Ts and Cs may say. If they could, the same rationale could justify stealing your advance payments for stays and cancelling those and keeping your cash.
Whilst they may (questionably) choose to "confiscate" points that they believe were "fraudulently" obtained (- and that is far from certain as it can be reasonably construed that once a code has been entered into IHGs system and accepted by it and then if a stay subsequently triggers the bonus - then that deal is legally completed) but that still leaves all the other points in the account earned (even in IHGs eyes) legitimately. It still also leaves the question as to why they didn't mete the treatment out to ALL customers when they clearly could if they wished.
This - in the UK - would need to pass a "fairness" test.
It doesn't on many levels. Firstly whilst IHG could argue that it could snatch back points not legitimately earned (and it would need to explain why it accepted the registration the first place and then paid out as a bonus) it could argue about confiscating those points but would still need to explain how they came to be accepting the code in the first place and therefore why a "change of mind" having accepted it was "fair". I don't think it could.
However, in the process of explaining their position they would also need to show that they had applied this rule of closing accounts and taking points balances "fairly" and a viable question would be "did you close every account"? If the answer is as I expect "no" then a UK court might conclude that this is merely an excuse to "steal" points from customers they don't mind upsetting and nothing to do with "fraud". If their issue is one of fraud or breach of Ts&Cs then this would hold for all customers. It is a principle that must be customer value blind. If it is a fraud by one customer it is a fraud by all that did it. It would then be the way that they selected customers that would show this not to be a fraud issue at all.
Anyone in the UK experiencing the confiscation of points earned "legitimately" should simply use the "money claim" process in the UK court system. It's an online system. It's very straightforward and I have very little doubt that the points would be reinstated or the cash claimed offered.
I'm not arguing either the ethical aspect or whether it is sensible or not - the answers to those issues to me seem pretty clear and I am finding it somewhat difficult to tell in the thread what are genuinely held views and those that are posted to simply troll and feeding that doesn't assist what is a concerning issue for many.
Last edited by uk1; Jun 9, 2014 at 5:16 am