Jun 24, 2014, 2:19 am
Last edit by: soitgoes
IHG Account Termination Fact Summary
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
4. Membership Cancellation. SCH reserves the right to cancel any IHG®Rewards Club membership and revoke any and all unredeemed IHG® Rewards Club points collected by any member for reasons that include, but are not limited to: 1) violation of these Terms and Conditions; 2) misrepresentation of any information or any misuse of this Program; 3) violation of any national, state or local law or regulation in connection with the use of membership privileges; 4) failure to pay for hotel charges; 5) a check to a participating hotel brand that is returned for insufficient funds or is invalid for any reason; 6) commission of fraud or abuse involving any portion of this Program; 7) more than one active account per member; or 8) physical, verbal, or written abuse of hotel or IHG personnel; or 9) action, in any other way, to the detriment of the Program or any of its alliances; all as may be determined by SCH in its sole discretion.
IHG Account Terminated (after registering for several promotion codes)
Jun 13, 2014, 10:28 pm
#196
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,605
yes, they can be gifted, the number has nothing to do with it, the issue is IHG, the company proposed it, and accepted them, their agent, their employee, i accepted their offer, there you have a contract in common law, IHG the business is in the authority. Nor were the stays booked on the BOGO rate, another decision of IHG, not the customer's call.
Did IHG directly and intentionally give you 28 certificates?
Jun 13, 2014, 10:33 pm
#197
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
The point is not that he was doing something that was against the T&C's, I think he already concedes that it is. The point is that IHG allowed this to happen, arbitrarily terminating the account after condoning it for 28 nights. If you read the argument of estoppel, the argument is that the guest may have come to rely on IHG's acceptance of the first 28 certificates as to condoning the certificates as acceptable.
Whether that means anything depends on whatever country you're in, and what the elements of estoppel are for your legal jurisdiction. (it seems to, quite a bit in English law, for example)
But no, it is not as absurd as you think to claim that IHG might have acted wrongly... But it seems the apologists are out in full force again! Just when this thread was getting productive too... We almost made a breakthrough figuring what was the reason for termination!~
Last edited by FLYGVA; Jun 14, 2014 at 5:22 am Reason: unnecessary personal commend edited out of post
Jun 13, 2014, 10:37 pm
#198
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: IHG, RC, HH, AA, QF, UA, Aeroplan
Posts: 2,690
i guess because their IT is not great, kept seeing 400 plus nights and renewing automatically, all good^
Jun 13, 2014, 10:43 pm
#199
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
There are several things that I am very curious to find more information about.
1.)Have any of the cancelled accounts here been from US based accounts?
2.)Have any of the cancelled accounts been active users of a Chase IHG card?
3.)Did anyone have future paid stays booked when they were cancelled?
1.)Have any of the cancelled accounts here been from US based accounts?
2.)Have any of the cancelled accounts been active users of a Chase IHG card?
3.)Did anyone have future paid stays booked when they were cancelled?
1) Yes
2) Not sure. It seems so far, based on Bakkie's post, some terminations were based on using a PLT promo when they weren't PLT. Since Chase IHG gives you PLT, this might immunize you from termination.
3) Yes, it seemed a number of people have lost point-stay bookings.
Jun 13, 2014, 10:50 pm
#200
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 63
Ah let's productively answer this in a summary!
1) Yes
2) Not sure. It seems so far, based on Bakkie's post, some terminations were based on using a PLT promo when they weren't PLT. Since Chase IHG gives you PLT, this might immunize you from termination.
3) Yes, it seemed a number of people have lost point-stay bookings.
1) Yes
2) Not sure. It seems so far, based on Bakkie's post, some terminations were based on using a PLT promo when they weren't PLT. Since Chase IHG gives you PLT, this might immunize you from termination.
3) Yes, it seemed a number of people have lost point-stay bookings.
Jun 13, 2014, 11:34 pm
#201
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: SQ TPPS, EK Gold, IHG RA, Marriott Gold Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, UA Premier Gold, TG Silver
Posts: 1,092
So, "productive" = everyone agreeing that IHG's in the wrong when it takes action against a contravention of T&C? I don't think I'm an apologist if I happen to think they've got a point. Sorry if that's not "productive". This seems like a kangaroo court.
Jun 13, 2014, 11:49 pm
#202
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
productive DOES NOT MEAN that we go and accuse people of fraud, telling them that they're bad and they deserve what they got (hmm like a kangaroo court, ironic)... I welcome opinion, but when it degrades into aggressive, accusatory rhetoric, that's when it ceases to be opinion and becomes attack.
I didn't say that the IHG apologists weren't productive, it's just that the last time they came out in full force, it turned into a personal attack slaughterfest. The problem I think is that the apologists opine that the OP's behavior was not legal, and the argument degrades quickly into whether the op was right or not... which imo doesn't really get us very far into understanding why this is happening, arbitrarily. I think even the IHG apologist has to concede that a 14 page thread here (plus loyaltylobby, plus flyertea) has to be significant bad press for IHG, so it's kind of puzzling why they let it happen. Even that would be a better discussion than arguing whether or not the OP has broken T&Cs.
Think about the OP. They came here for help or to warn people, not to be judged.
Last edited by no2chem; Jun 14, 2014 at 12:04 am
Jun 14, 2014, 12:43 am
#203
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
HTB.
Jun 14, 2014, 1:18 am
#204
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
UK members may not be aware that two major new pieces of legislation came into force in the UK yesterday that make substantial changes to the contractual rights of consumers. The first set of regulations will affect all traders, in particular traders who enter into contracts with consumers over 'distance' means such as the internet, or face-to-face in places other than the their own business premises. The second legislative development is a far-reaching project to update, clarify and codify a large proportion of the existing consumer-facing legislation.
.... and specifically ....
The retrospective changing of contracts remains unacceptable under UK law as has all the exisitng unfair consumer contract terms in consumer contracts which have simply been beefed up and further clarified in further enhanced favour of the consumer.
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
.... and specifically ....
Under the Regulations, with effect from 13 June 2014:
•Pre-contract information: The Regulations place obligations on all types of traders to provide consumers with the pre-contractual information specified in the Regulations, prior to entering into any contract (for example, on the total costs of the relevant products/services, and the arrangements for payment and delivery). For distance and off-premises contracts, the trader must give the consumer confirmation of the contract, including the pre-contract information, in a durable medium within a reasonable period (and no later than delivery of the goods or commencement of the services, as applicable).
•Pre-contract information: The Regulations place obligations on all types of traders to provide consumers with the pre-contractual information specified in the Regulations, prior to entering into any contract (for example, on the total costs of the relevant products/services, and the arrangements for payment and delivery). For distance and off-premises contracts, the trader must give the consumer confirmation of the contract, including the pre-contract information, in a durable medium within a reasonable period (and no later than delivery of the goods or commencement of the services, as applicable).
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
Last edited by uk1; Jun 14, 2014 at 1:25 am
Jun 14, 2014, 2:44 am
#205
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: N/A
Programs: 100m swimming certificate level 5
Posts: 1,456
UK members may not be aware that two major new pieces of legislation came into force in the UK yesterday that make substantial changes to the contractual rights of consumers. The first set of regulations will affect all traders, in particular traders who enter into contracts with consumers over 'distance' means such as the internet, or face-to-face in places other than the their own business premises. The second legislative development is a far-reaching project to update, clarify and codify a large proportion of the existing consumer-facing legislation.
.... and specifically ....
The retrospective changing of contracts remains unacceptable under UK law as has all the exisitng unfair consumer contract terms in consumer contracts which have simply been beefed up and further clarified in further enhanced favour of the consumer.
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
.... and specifically ....
The retrospective changing of contracts remains unacceptable under UK law as has all the exisitng unfair consumer contract terms in consumer contracts which have simply been beefed up and further clarified in further enhanced favour of the consumer.
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
Jun 14, 2014, 4:35 am
#206
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BZN
Programs: AA:LT Platinum DL:LT Gold UA:1P MAR:LT Titanium
Posts: 8,291
Putting aside the discussion regarding IHG's handling of the situation and looking only at the pattern that seems to trigger closures, the only consistent info I'm noticing:
> People with few recent stays in a while or especially a first stay combined with many points earned (e.g., a high points-earned to paid stays ratio) are often the ones getting the ax. Other factors (BRG, multiple accounts from same IP, redemptions, country, etc) don't seem to be "tells"... just the points/stays ratio as of late. Activity from long ago seems not to matter... just the past year or two.
> People with substantial paid stay activity, regardless of how many promos they've done or other patters, seem to be safe.
So perhaps IHG is looking mainly to spot accounts that have been set up with the purpose of earning a ton of points in a burst with no intention/pattern of future stays expected? Some mention of status-targeted codes being used on non-status accounts also seems to be a factor.
See quotes below for examples that support this.
> People with few recent stays in a while or especially a first stay combined with many points earned (e.g., a high points-earned to paid stays ratio) are often the ones getting the ax. Other factors (BRG, multiple accounts from same IP, redemptions, country, etc) don't seem to be "tells"... just the points/stays ratio as of late. Activity from long ago seems not to matter... just the past year or two.
> People with substantial paid stay activity, regardless of how many promos they've done or other patters, seem to be safe.
So perhaps IHG is looking mainly to spot accounts that have been set up with the purpose of earning a ton of points in a burst with no intention/pattern of future stays expected? Some mention of status-targeted codes being used on non-status accounts also seems to be a factor.
See quotes below for examples that support this.
And, IIRC, all of those were relative low-usage IHG members. Ie, I have not heard of a single person who registered for a half dozen to dozen promo codes (like I did) once during either Big Win fall 2013 or Big Win early 2014 (ie, in the past 10 months), but meanwhile did do all the paid stays required to complete all their Big Win tasks in both rounds of the Big Win, having had a problem with their account yet.
Jun 14, 2014, 5:47 am
#207
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: SQ TPPS, EK Gold, IHG RA, Marriott Gold Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, UA Premier Gold, TG Silver
Posts: 1,092
UK members may not be aware that two major new pieces of legislation came into force in the UK yesterday that make substantial changes to the contractual rights of consumers. The first set of regulations will affect all traders, in particular traders who enter into contracts with consumers over 'distance' means such as the internet, or face-to-face in places other than the their own business premises. The second legislative development is a far-reaching project to update, clarify and codify a large proportion of the existing consumer-facing legislation.
.... and specifically ....
The retrospective changing of contracts remains unacceptable under UK law as has all the exisitng unfair consumer contract terms in consumer contracts which have simply been beefed up and further clarified in further enhanced favour of the consumer.
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
.... and specifically ....
The retrospective changing of contracts remains unacceptable under UK law as has all the exisitng unfair consumer contract terms in consumer contracts which have simply been beefed up and further clarified in further enhanced favour of the consumer.
The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
Consumer Rights Bill 2014
Jun 14, 2014, 6:21 am
#208
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DFW
Programs: American - Platinum Pro, Marriott - Platinum
Posts: 479
productive DOES NOT MEAN that we go and accuse people of fraud, telling them that they're bad and they deserve what they got (hmm like a kangaroo court, ironic)... I welcome opinion, but when it degrades into aggressive, accusatory rhetoric, that's when it ceases to be opinion and becomes attack.
Think about the OP. They came here for help or to warn people, not to be judged.
Think about the OP. They came here for help or to warn people, not to be judged.
Jun 14, 2014, 6:28 am
#209
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
There are several things that I am very curious to find more information about.
1.)Have any of the cancelled accounts here been from US based accounts?
2.)Have any of the cancelled accounts been active users of a Chase IHG card?
3.)Did anyone have future paid stays booked when they were cancelled?
1.)Have any of the cancelled accounts here been from US based accounts?
2.)Have any of the cancelled accounts been active users of a Chase IHG card?
3.)Did anyone have future paid stays booked when they were cancelled?
2. not sure what you mean, just make spending for 80k bonus points and spend for annual fee
3. yes, had future stays redeemed with points, this was not cancelled even when my account was initially cancelled
Jun 14, 2014, 6:37 am
#210
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: SPG Plat,MR Plat Spire Plat/IC Amb, Choice Plat, BW Plat
Posts: 1,320
I don't think I've read of anyone having their account cancelled for staying within the T&C (but I stand to be corrected). If one breaks the T&C, which one accepted at sign-up, it's a fair cop. Regardless of the so-called IT issues, codes available through blogs, FT etc, one knowingly makes a choice to load them. Stop the victim mentality and take responsibility.
Using multiple BOGO's,multiple acct's, survey scripts, and obvious infractions and such is another issue. But how some claim they can register for 20+ codes with an existing/active acct's is beyond me....lucky if I can for 1-3 public codes including a Stay X or current offer since 2012 and that's likely once maybe twice every year. So to me it appears IHG is modifying the availability of codes and acknowledges their ability to control this. Both sides know what they are doing and IHG has earned record membership levels and prospered as a result by driving their customer base. Seems like an intentional business model to me. I actually admire IHG's "reach" in stimulating business by manipulating the various travel forum's with offer placement's....filling room's with $$$ is what its all about. I don't think anyone is a victim when its a fair trade.