Jun 24, 2014, 2:19 am
Last edit by: soitgoes
IHG Account Termination Fact Summary
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
1) IHG has been terminating accounts due to abuse since approximately 2010 (#244).
2) IHG account terminations happen suddenly and without warning. If your account is terminated, you will not be able to login. You will have to call customer service, who will either reinstate your account and warn you, or refer your case to another office, in which case your account is probably permamently closed.
3) No one except for IHG knows exactly what the trigger for account cancellation is. The reason given is usually excessive use of promo codes. In the past, it was thought that most of the people who got their accounts canceled was due to either selling points or excessive point break bookings, but it appears that mere registration of promo codes now can sometimes trigger a cancellation.
Who has gotten their account terminated?
(If you, or someone you know has got their account terminated, please list your username here, and reference the post you made on this thread).
bgmike (#1)
lcpteck (#5)
DavidAL - father - (#85)
Dolphinyong - friend - (#155)
Bakkie (#180)
Tim O'Brien (#187) reinstated
chongcao - good summary, esp. of events from flyertea forum (#244)
soitgoes (#262) deactivated temporarily; reactivated after phone call
travelismylife - brother inlaw - (#329)
Also, LoyaltyLobby has a number of data points in the comment thread.
FlyerTea (a Chinese site) also has a number of data points.
What do we know about terminations
1) The usual reason IHG gives is non-targeted promo code usage. We don't know which promo codes IHG considers invalid, although IHG told Bakke (#180), that he used a code that was supposed to be for platinum members when he was not.
2) Status does not matter. Gold members, Platinum members, even RAs have all had their account terminated.
3) Credit card does not matter. Some people terminated did not have the IHG Chase card, some did, for more than 3 years (#329).
4) Stay history does not matter. Some people had their accounts terminated before any stay, some had their accounts terminated after one stay that accrued many points, and some had a history of lot of paid stays.
5) Termination usually doesn't cause a loss of booked nights. Apparently, even though your points are gone, any nights reserved stay booked in the system.
6) Some account terminations are caused by calling customer service on incorrectly credited nights. A number of people who had their accounts terminated called in on a stay that posted as non-qualifying, only to have their account cancelled shortly thereafter.
IHG Terms and Conditions downloadable PDF, including:
4. Membership Cancellation. SCH reserves the right to cancel any IHG®Rewards Club membership and revoke any and all unredeemed IHG® Rewards Club points collected by any member for reasons that include, but are not limited to: 1) violation of these Terms and Conditions; 2) misrepresentation of any information or any misuse of this Program; 3) violation of any national, state or local law or regulation in connection with the use of membership privileges; 4) failure to pay for hotel charges; 5) a check to a participating hotel brand that is returned for insufficient funds or is invalid for any reason; 6) commission of fraud or abuse involving any portion of this Program; 7) more than one active account per member; or 8) physical, verbal, or written abuse of hotel or IHG personnel; or 9) action, in any other way, to the detriment of the Program or any of its alliances; all as may be determined by SCH in its sole discretion.
IHG Account Terminated (after registering for several promotion codes)
Jun 5, 2014, 8:24 pm
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
But they only fire them if the make use of the IT glitch (or if they abuse BRG), according the datapoints we have int his forum!
And they don't admit to firing them, they blame it on the person having used the IT glitch! (Well, they don't use those words, but being able to register for promos you shouldn't be able to is an IT glitch, and they blame it on people reigstering for promos they weren't supposed to register for.)
Why is someone who earned 20k points they "weren't supposed to" from stacked promos on one stay suddenly unprofitable while someone who only earned many more points from singing up for the credit card is not deemed unprofitable, when both have had only one paid stays? (Or maybe the latter had zero paid stays?)
So maybe being unprofitable is a qualifier for being fired, but it still seems like the IT glitch is the trigger for being fired.
And they don't admit to firing them, they blame it on the person having used the IT glitch! (Well, they don't use those words, but being able to register for promos you shouldn't be able to is an IT glitch, and they blame it on people reigstering for promos they weren't supposed to register for.)
Why is someone who earned 20k points they "weren't supposed to" from stacked promos on one stay suddenly unprofitable while someone who only earned many more points from singing up for the credit card is not deemed unprofitable, when both have had only one paid stays? (Or maybe the latter had zero paid stays?)
So maybe being unprofitable is a qualifier for being fired, but it still seems like the IT glitch is the trigger for being fired.
Jun 5, 2014, 8:35 pm
#107
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 7,710
But IHG hasn't objected to me earning 20k points per stay from the Big Win, redeeming 20+ PB nights in 6 months and claiming legitimate BRGs in the past. If you don't do something they can legitimately call "fraud or abuse" you can be remarkably unprofitable and still be treated well.
Jun 6, 2014, 12:32 am
#108
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,911
terminating accounts of supposedly unprofitable clients without a very strong case of program violation is an invite to PR and possibly legal disaster
Jun 6, 2014, 12:34 am
#109
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
But IHG hasn't objected to me earning 20k points per stay from the Big Win, redeeming 20+ PB nights in 6 months and claiming legitimate BRGs in the past. If you don't do something they can legitimately call "fraud or abuse" you can be remarkably unprofitable and still be treated well.
It doesn't mean that IHG is automatically correct either. You fail to understand that there are both economic and ethical implications involved when firing customers. In terms of economics, negative publicity (like the kind that is being generated in this thread) will hurt IHG's reputation and consequently its sales, and in terms of ethics, there are some issues about only caring about the most profitable customers.
IMHO, firing customers is supposed to be a last resort option, not something you do after a customer has had one or two stays, but after a customer has consistently shown that they are problematic. I don't think any of the two or three people, including OP, that have posted in this thread have shown that. And that scares me, because when will IHG decide that I am unprofitable? The choice, at least to me seems arbitrary, although IHG internally probably has some secret formula. And that, really, is what we're complaining about.
But I guess that doesn't matter, since you feel that customers are defrauding IHG (I think you fail to recognize the moral weight of that statement), so IHG should slam the book on them.
Jun 6, 2014, 1:06 am
#110
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moscow
Programs: DL GM and so on
Posts: 1,200
Just a reminder for some IHG apologists here:
Don't forget this quote after you get a short end of the stick. You seem to be incredibly naive to not recognise that the Flyertalk crowd is a big risk group for IHG.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Jun 6, 2014, 1:49 am
#111
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,620
I do not see the relevance at all. People are allowed to have different views. My view is that those registering for promotions that are not publicly advertised and that they have not received mailing targetting them for it, do so at their own risk. If suffering adverse consequences, then that is hard luck.
Jun 6, 2014, 3:17 am
#112
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Auckland NZ
Programs: SQ TPPS, EK Gold, IHG RA, Marriott Gold Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, UA Premier Gold, TG Silver
Posts: 1,092
It doesn't mean that IHG is automatically correct either. You fail to understand that there are both economic and ethical implications involved when firing customers. In terms of economics, negative publicity (like the kind that is being generated in this thread) will hurt IHG's reputation and consequently its sales, and in terms of ethics, there are some issues about only caring about the most profitable customers.
IMHO, firing customers is supposed to be a last resort option, not something you do after a customer has had one or two stays, but after a customer has consistently shown that they are problematic. I don't think any of the two or three people, including OP, that have posted in this thread have shown that. And that scares me, because when will IHG decide that I am unprofitable? The choice, at least to me seems arbitrary, although IHG internally probably has some secret formula. And that, really, is what we're complaining about.
But I guess that doesn't matter, since you feel that customers are defrauding IHG (I think you fail to recognize the moral weight of that statement), so IHG should slam the book on them.
But I guess that doesn't matter, since you feel that customers are defrauding IHG (I think you fail to recognize the moral weight of that statement), so IHG should slam the book on them.
And if you're scared of IHG possibly firing you, I can only assume you're aware that your own behaviour has been less than ethical.
Jun 6, 2014, 3:36 am
#113
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP (owe), BA Silver (ows), AB Silver (owr), WN A+/CP, IHG Spire AMB, Avis First
Posts: 1,414
Focusing on the most profitable customers is how you keep shareholders happy, and just makes sense. Ethics are completely irrelevant.
This is just silly: you accuse IHG of unethical behaviour and then accuse a poster of misunderstanding moral issues. You really have no idea what you're talking about.
And if you're scared of IHG possibly firing you, I can only assume you're aware that your own behaviour has been less than ethical.
This is just silly: you accuse IHG of unethical behaviour and then accuse a poster of misunderstanding moral issues. You really have no idea what you're talking about.
And if you're scared of IHG possibly firing you, I can only assume you're aware that your own behaviour has been less than ethical.
Accusing someone of fraud is not a light accusation: in the United States, it's considered a crime of moral turpitude, and has similar status in other countries. I would be very upset if someone wrongly accused me of committing fraud.
As for IHG, I didn't accuse them of unethical behavior (in past posts, I used words such as 'bad form' or 'poor taste'), I just said if it is true that they are firing unprofitable customers, then there are ethical implications. Implications being that there are ISSUES (up to debate) whether it is right or not to only serve your most profitable customers and deciding to get rid of your other customers at their detriment. NOT the same as calling them unethical. In fact I find a MIT sloan article which shockingly reached pretty similar conclusions as me: http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/w...ire-customers/ , so I'm not making this up...
And as for my own behavior, I would like to think of myself as a customer IHG likes to keep. I don't register for every single promo, and I have a 680 EUR stay at le grand coming up and have spent several thousand at IHG hotels. In fact, I'm usually quite supportive of IHG: their BRG program, for example is excellent and they honor those without cancelling accounts just fine... I am just scared because the cancellation of accounts seem arbitrary, and lately I've purchased and acquired many IHG points. It seems that if IHG decides to cancel my account I won't even get a chance to make my case.
It seems that presumption of innocence isn't a concept on FT? It's sad that FT has become so accusatory lately... So many assumptions about others being made...
Last edited by no2chem; Jun 6, 2014 at 3:56 am
Jun 6, 2014, 4:03 am
#114
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
Hm, ok, well I guess we support Enron on FT now... since ethics are apparently irrelevant?? This is just absurd. this conversation has devolved significantly, and it appears that the IHG apologists have resorted to personal ad hominem attacks...? sigh.
Accusing someone of fraud is not a light accusation: in the United States, it's considered a crime of moral turpitude, and has similar status in other countries. I would be very upset if someone wrongly accused me of committing fraud.
As for IHG, I didn't accuse them of unethical behavior, I just said if it is true that they are firing unprofitable customers (which, (a) I DID NOT accuse them of, and (b) we don't know if they are doing that yet), then there are ethical implications. NOT the same as calling them unethical. In fact I find a MIT sloan article which shockingly reached pretty similar conclusions as me: http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/w...ire-customers/ , so I'm not making this up...
And as for my own behavior, I would like to think of myself as a customer IHG likes to keep. I don't register for every single promo, and I have a 680 EUR stay at le grand coming up and have spent several thousand at IHG hotels. In fact, I'm usually quite supportive of IHG: their BRG program, for example is excellent and they honor those without cancelling accounts just fine... I am just scared because the cancellation of accounts seem arbitrary, and lately I've purchased and acquired many IHG points. It seems that if IHG decides to cancel my account I won't even get a chance to make my case.
It seems that presumption of innocence isn't a concept on FT? It's sad that FT has become so accusatory lately... So many assumptions about others being made...
Accusing someone of fraud is not a light accusation: in the United States, it's considered a crime of moral turpitude, and has similar status in other countries. I would be very upset if someone wrongly accused me of committing fraud.
As for IHG, I didn't accuse them of unethical behavior, I just said if it is true that they are firing unprofitable customers (which, (a) I DID NOT accuse them of, and (b) we don't know if they are doing that yet), then there are ethical implications. NOT the same as calling them unethical. In fact I find a MIT sloan article which shockingly reached pretty similar conclusions as me: http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/w...ire-customers/ , so I'm not making this up...
And as for my own behavior, I would like to think of myself as a customer IHG likes to keep. I don't register for every single promo, and I have a 680 EUR stay at le grand coming up and have spent several thousand at IHG hotels. In fact, I'm usually quite supportive of IHG: their BRG program, for example is excellent and they honor those without cancelling accounts just fine... I am just scared because the cancellation of accounts seem arbitrary, and lately I've purchased and acquired many IHG points. It seems that if IHG decides to cancel my account I won't even get a chance to make my case.
It seems that presumption of innocence isn't a concept on FT? It's sad that FT has become so accusatory lately... So many assumptions about others being made...
It is the combination of people unable to deal with a post as it stands but instead need to convert it into something else that it isn't but that they think they can find easier to be nasty about - alongside those that only seem to pop up to disagree with people and never seem to have much positive to contribute. So a few that seem to have as a starting point disagreeing with any topic that is critical of ICHG with others who seem to only pop up to target specific posters to disagree with. Sadly so many decent posters give up, the forum simply becomes heavier with those two groups.
The first group's posts are easilly detectable. They have in them "X" is just like"Y". It is never just like "Y". If it were then they could and would simply argue about "X" ie the original post.
So we end up in a long drawn out debate about "Y" instead of "X" and why "X" isn't anything remotely like "Y". If people can't discuss a post as it stands in a logical way without convoluting it into something that it isn't but they feel that they can argue then we should ignore those, or perhaps simply say "no it isn't like "Y" at all ..... let's stay on "X" ..... ".
The other thing is those people that are determined to trash both FT and threads by not really contributing much that is helpful to others or positive but instead pop up to simply address themselves to selected posters rather than posts. So they end up seemingly taking trouble in constructing posts in order to contradict for the sake of it. The proof is that some never agree with anything selected posters post. I'm not talking about friendly banter which is great ... but nastiness for the sake of nastiness. That is why so many are not bothering.
This thread should never have turned out this way but these days many threads on FT always seems to. So what is the point?
Last edited by uk1; Jun 6, 2014 at 4:11 am
Jun 6, 2014, 5:02 am
#115
Suspended
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Location: Auckland NZ
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Hm, ok, well I guess we support Enron on FT now... since ethics are apparently irrelevant?? .....Implications being that there are ISSUES (up to debate) whether it is right or not to only serve your most profitable customers and deciding to get rid of your other customers at their detriment.
As I said before, I would expect that IHG will have a set of criteria which they apply to accounts, and those which are borderline are flagged for a decision. For those affected negatively, sure it leaves a bad taste. If you're playing by the rules, there's no need to be scared.
Jun 6, 2014, 7:09 am
#116
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
And no, I'm not talking about people who hacked into their system and stole points. I'm talking about people who took advantage of promotions in a way the business did not anticipate (but easily could prevent).
HTB.
Jun 6, 2014, 7:35 am
#117
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
HTB.
Jun 6, 2014, 2:07 pm
#118
Suspended
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Location: Auckland NZ
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As a shareholder I would expect that a company deals with the issues that allows some customers to take advantage of the company. And I would expect the company to act ethically. Or would you say that it's the duty of all companies to legally employ child workers in third world countries?
HTB.
HTB.
Jun 6, 2014, 2:52 pm
#119
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,671
You are one of several who bandy around words like "ethical" and "moral", but you're confusing these behaviours with straightforward economic business decisions. If it's not ethical for a company to decide not to trade with certain customers, is it ethical for you to decide not to trade with them? Every company has the right to select its customers. It's not a charity. Of course I would expect a company to trade ethically and demonstrate strong morals but it's not relevant in this situation.
HTB.
Jun 6, 2014, 3:00 pm
#120
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Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Not even close:
1. The negative "PR" is an urban myth. As every other organization has found when it cracked down on its scammers (see the 1,000 odd post AA threads about AA closing out accounts), you get compliance and people begging to come back, not business loss. And, even if you lose a couple of customers, they aren't likely HVC's if they are toying around with codes they found on an Internet blog.
2. There are no legal reprecussions. Period. The points have no value, they aren't the OP's property and the t&c couldn't be more clear.
1. The negative "PR" is an urban myth. As every other organization has found when it cracked down on its scammers (see the 1,000 odd post AA threads about AA closing out accounts), you get compliance and people begging to come back, not business loss. And, even if you lose a couple of customers, they aren't likely HVC's if they are toying around with codes they found on an Internet blog.
2. There are no legal reprecussions. Period. The points have no value, they aren't the OP's property and the t&c couldn't be more clear.