Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 21, 2020, 5:00 am
#1141
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
This guy that chartered the plane is one of the first two deaths from the virus in Singapore. The second is a 75-year old woman who spent 26 days in ICU.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-yong-12563036
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-yong-12563036
Mar 21, 2020, 5:24 am
#1142
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
A month ago Spain had no reported cases of this virus or close to none. Now they have a thousand dead following this outbreak there.
Mar 21, 2020, 5:31 am
#1143
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SIN
Programs: EK Blue, EY Guest, AA, QR
Posts: 288
Every countrys situation is different.
And hindsight is 20-20.
In Italy case, a full blockade of the northern areas would have been ideal when it blew up there
What is happening now is that people are panicking and claiming that Wuhan and France/Spain style lockdown indefinitely is the only thing that will work...…
They are refusing to see Japan or Korea's responses
And groupthink is working in a peculiar way.
When a country is put in lockdown, its residents are claiming that this is the only way to stop the virus though before it was done, they would be ambivalent
Its a form of consoling oneself that they are suffering because that is the only way out. The alternative story is that they are suffering, but only to delay the virus and thy may get it later regardless.....
And also people from blockaded areas seem to be very angry, judging by social media comments, when seeing people in the UK and Germany walking about, its kind of "when we are locked down, how dare those people not suffer like us"
I am sure psychology will have a better explanation of all these phenomenon
And hindsight is 20-20.
In Italy case, a full blockade of the northern areas would have been ideal when it blew up there
What is happening now is that people are panicking and claiming that Wuhan and France/Spain style lockdown indefinitely is the only thing that will work...…
They are refusing to see Japan or Korea's responses
And groupthink is working in a peculiar way.
When a country is put in lockdown, its residents are claiming that this is the only way to stop the virus though before it was done, they would be ambivalent
Its a form of consoling oneself that they are suffering because that is the only way out. The alternative story is that they are suffering, but only to delay the virus and thy may get it later regardless.....
And also people from blockaded areas seem to be very angry, judging by social media comments, when seeing people in the UK and Germany walking about, its kind of "when we are locked down, how dare those people not suffer like us"
I am sure psychology will have a better explanation of all these phenomenon
Mar 21, 2020, 6:02 am
#1144
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,531
The same pattern was observed with SARS (more infections with blood type A; less with type O). This paper from 2008 has a possible explanation:
https://academic.oup.com/glycob/arti...2/1085/1988773
However, I don't know that anyone has actually isolated any type of coronavirus that displays A or B carbohydrate epitopes.
https://academic.oup.com/glycob/arti...2/1085/1988773
However, I don't know that anyone has actually isolated any type of coronavirus that displays A or B carbohydrate epitopes.
tb
Mar 21, 2020, 6:37 am
#1145
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 109
Why no ‘social distancing’ onboard aircraft?
With the decreased loads, they have the space now to seat people at least one seat apart throughout the whole aircraft (unless travelling together, of course).
Even now they insist on filling every single seat in first with upgrades, packing people into a tight space.
Seems more steps could be taken to stop the spread for those who need to take essential travel.
Even now they insist on filling every single seat in first with upgrades, packing people into a tight space.
Seems more steps could be taken to stop the spread for those who need to take essential travel.
Mar 21, 2020, 6:56 am
#1146
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,620
Is the airline involuntarily upgrading passengers or are these upgrades that have been requested by passengers?
Mar 21, 2020, 6:59 am
#1147
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 205
3/20/20 COVID-19 Update from the UCSF Infectious Diseases Division: Special Dept. of Surgery Grand Rounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UafK-4vMr8MUnfortunately, volume is very low. My daughter attended the ZOOM meeting had no trouble hearing, so I wonder if there are ways I can boost the volume when watching?
Towards end, data show aerosol transmission risk is low. supporting our contention from aerodynamical terminal velocity calculations.
Will leave it there for a week or so.
Mar 21, 2020, 7:02 am
#1148
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,659
With the decreased loads, they have the space now to seat people at least one seat apart throughout the whole aircraft (unless travelling together, of course).
Even now they insist on filling every single seat in first with upgrades, packing people into a tight space.
Seems more steps could be taken to stop the spread for those who need to take essential travel.
Even now they insist on filling every single seat in first with upgrades, packing people into a tight space.
Seems more steps could be taken to stop the spread for those who need to take essential travel.
Mar 21, 2020, 7:09 am
#1149
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 109
If I didn’t absolutely have to fly today, I wouldn’t. But I purposely chose this flight because the cabin looked the most empty when booking.
Mar 21, 2020, 7:20 am
#1150
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Question. Why hasn't this been more of an issue for Japan? Have they already hit the apogee of that bell curve hockey puck growth and started to roll over? Or, for whatever reason, they're just not reporting or testing?
Mar 21, 2020, 7:31 am
#1151
Moderator, El Al and Marriott Bonvoy, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ*G, Mar LTT, Hyatt Glb, AA LTG, LY, HH, IC, BA, DL, UA SLV
Posts: 12,018
The Israeli living in Wuhan that I follow on Facebook posted today that they are now, after 60 days, allowed to leave their apartment just into the local neighborhood and so long as they maintain distance from others. His son who is roughly 7 prefers to stay in the apartment rather than go out. He, himself, prefers to wait a few days to see if the government may decide this is premature. You can find him on FB as עופר סין
Meanwhile Thailand is slowly getting with the program. From tomorrow all shopping malls, markets, restaurants and department stores will be closed. Pharmacies and supermarkets and convenience stores will remain open.
Meanwhile Thailand is slowly getting with the program. From tomorrow all shopping malls, markets, restaurants and department stores will be closed. Pharmacies and supermarkets and convenience stores will remain open.
Mar 21, 2020, 7:42 am
#1152
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Marriott Titanium, National EE
Posts: 538
I do see Korea's or Singapores response and I totally agree that's the way to go instead of a full blown lockdown.
However Korea got it under control through extensive testing early on and people actually taking it seriously and self-isolate themselves.
Singapore has the level of contact tracking and quarantine enforcement that we can only dream of.
In the US, we are still doing a laughable number of testing, we have a president that claims only two weeks ago that the whole thing is a hoax and as a result half of the population only now start to take it serious, and we repeatedly see people violating quarantine order with no mechanism to really enforce it.
Also Italy indeed started a lockdown of northern part only but the news got leaked in advance and everyone was flooding to the southern part making a partial lockdown useless. This is also exactly what happened with the Wuhan lockdown. News got leaked the night before and half of the city left the quarantine zone overnight spreading across the country. If neither China nor Italy could make a partial lockdown happen, I'm afraid we have zero chance either.
However Korea got it under control through extensive testing early on and people actually taking it seriously and self-isolate themselves.
Singapore has the level of contact tracking and quarantine enforcement that we can only dream of.
In the US, we are still doing a laughable number of testing, we have a president that claims only two weeks ago that the whole thing is a hoax and as a result half of the population only now start to take it serious, and we repeatedly see people violating quarantine order with no mechanism to really enforce it.
Also Italy indeed started a lockdown of northern part only but the news got leaked in advance and everyone was flooding to the southern part making a partial lockdown useless. This is also exactly what happened with the Wuhan lockdown. News got leaked the night before and half of the city left the quarantine zone overnight spreading across the country. If neither China nor Italy could make a partial lockdown happen, I'm afraid we have zero chance either.
Mar 21, 2020, 8:24 am
#1153
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
The secret is heavily discouraging people from getting tested, then not testing a lot of those that still want to take the risk of getting tested.
An in-law had active TB a few years ago and while that person was treated, there was no effort at all to determine how that person got infected or if that person had infected anyone else.
I work for a big foreign company, so we are being forced to work from home and basically all business trips have been cancelled.
My wife works for a Japanese company (number 2 in the field in Japan) and they have been told in no uncertain terms that if they test positive for coronavirus, it will disrupt numerous projects at the company and cause a lot of trouble, which will then be reflected in their evaluation - so basically people have been ordered to not be tested. Working from home isn't allowed and all business trips are still on.
I did have to go to work one day this week, and there was a security guard checking everyone's temperature. Of course, there was one thermometer which wasn't being cleaned at all.
An in-law had active TB a few years ago and while that person was treated, there was no effort at all to determine how that person got infected or if that person had infected anyone else.
I work for a big foreign company, so we are being forced to work from home and basically all business trips have been cancelled.
My wife works for a Japanese company (number 2 in the field in Japan) and they have been told in no uncertain terms that if they test positive for coronavirus, it will disrupt numerous projects at the company and cause a lot of trouble, which will then be reflected in their evaluation - so basically people have been ordered to not be tested. Working from home isn't allowed and all business trips are still on.
I did have to go to work one day this week, and there was a security guard checking everyone's temperature. Of course, there was one thermometer which wasn't being cleaned at all.
Mar 21, 2020, 8:51 am
#1154
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, UA Mileage Plus 1K, AA Executive Plat, Marriott Ambassador Elite
Posts: 2,344
this is why I think a full US airline shutdown is coming. You can't tell people to stay away from each other then have a plane with a whole bunch of people flying around (and beyond that with an a/c flying multiple legs)
Mar 21, 2020, 8:52 am
#1155
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
So apparently across some parts of the world with virus outbreaks, locals in small towns and villages are increasingly unhappy with compatriots from bigger cities and towns spreading out to their smaller places to get away from tighter and more populated confines during the current period.