Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
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•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 20, 2020, 7:52 pm
#1126
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Did the US count really go up by 5,000 in a day or is there something wrong with the data?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
If it's accurate I guess testing in the US is finally getting upto speed.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
If it's accurate I guess testing in the US is finally getting upto speed.
Probably some of both
Mar 20, 2020, 8:20 pm
#1127
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bregenz, Austria
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Posts: 2,950
Is there any definitive worldwide list?
Mar 20, 2020, 8:28 pm
#1128
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 49
In regard to the blood types
The same pattern was observed with SARS (more infections with blood type A; less with type O). This paper from 2008 has a possible explanation:
https://academic.oup.com/glycob/arti...2/1085/1988773
However, I don't know that anyone has actually isolated any type of coronavirus that displays A or B carbohydrate epitopes.
Since SARS-CoV replicates in epithelial cells of the respiratory and digestive tracts that have the ability to synthesize ABH carbohydrate epitopes, we hypothesized that the S protein of virions produced by either A or B individuals could be decorated with A or B carbohydrate epitopes, respectively. Natural anti-A or -B antibodies from blood group O, B, and A individuals could bind to the S protein and block its interaction with ACE2, thereby preventing infection in accordance with the rules of transfusion.
However, I don't know that anyone has actually isolated any type of coronavirus that displays A or B carbohydrate epitopes.
Mar 20, 2020, 8:43 pm
#1129
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,750
But as I said, many public labs are now finding and fixing process issues as their caseload broadens massively.
US virus testing faces new headwind: Lab supply shortages
- There are “acute, serious shortages across the board” for supplies needed to do the tests, said Eric Blank, of the Association of Public Health Laboratories, which represents state and local health labs. Late Friday, Blank’s group and two other public health organizations recommended that testing be scaled back due to “real, immediate, wide-scale shortages.” -
- “The only way to get through it without testing is to keep the entire country quarantined for the next 18 months” said Dr. Ashish Jha, a Harvard University global health professor. “That obviously is untenable.” Jha and his colleagues say the U.S. should be screening 100,000 to 150,000 people per day. The current rate is roughly 20,000 per day, he estimates, though it is accelerating as larger commercial companies ramp up testing. -
- The shortages have become a central concern in increasingly urgent communications among governors and federal officials. “Most of my phone calls today have been about swabs,” Gov. Gina Raimondo of Rhode Island said during a Tuesday news conference. “That’s our big issue at the moment.”
The Trump administration’s top health official suggested Friday that the “anecdotal” reports of shortages are caused by confusion about how to find alternative supplies. “Usually it’s that the lab people do not understand that there are alternative supplies in the marketplace that they are perfectly free to use,” Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar told reporters in a briefing at the White House. He said the federal government is purchasing and shipping swabs to states. -
- There are “acute, serious shortages across the board” for supplies needed to do the tests, said Eric Blank, of the Association of Public Health Laboratories, which represents state and local health labs. Late Friday, Blank’s group and two other public health organizations recommended that testing be scaled back due to “real, immediate, wide-scale shortages.” -
- “The only way to get through it without testing is to keep the entire country quarantined for the next 18 months” said Dr. Ashish Jha, a Harvard University global health professor. “That obviously is untenable.” Jha and his colleagues say the U.S. should be screening 100,000 to 150,000 people per day. The current rate is roughly 20,000 per day, he estimates, though it is accelerating as larger commercial companies ramp up testing. -
- The shortages have become a central concern in increasingly urgent communications among governors and federal officials. “Most of my phone calls today have been about swabs,” Gov. Gina Raimondo of Rhode Island said during a Tuesday news conference. “That’s our big issue at the moment.”
The Trump administration’s top health official suggested Friday that the “anecdotal” reports of shortages are caused by confusion about how to find alternative supplies. “Usually it’s that the lab people do not understand that there are alternative supplies in the marketplace that they are perfectly free to use,” Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar told reporters in a briefing at the White House. He said the federal government is purchasing and shipping swabs to states. -
Mar 20, 2020, 9:13 pm
#1130
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,750
Don't take my word for it, get yourself informed:
FactCheck.org
LEAST BIASED
These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes). The reporting is factual and usually sourced. These are the most credible media sources.
- Overall, Factcheck.org is a least biased and a credible fact checker that is Very High for factual reporting due to impeccable sourcing of information.
LEAST BIASED
These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes). The reporting is factual and usually sourced. These are the most credible media sources.
- Overall, Factcheck.org is a least biased and a credible fact checker that is Very High for factual reporting due to impeccable sourcing of information.
Mar 20, 2020, 9:26 pm
#1131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,855
Did the US count really go up by 5,000 in a day or is there something wrong with the data?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
If it's accurate I guess testing in the US is finally getting upto speed.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
If it's accurate I guess testing in the US is finally getting upto speed.
we are approaching and quite possibly passing 20k tonight.
And the case count for NY state is going to pass South Korea tomorrow, it appears.
Last edited by notquiteaff; Mar 20, 2020 at 9:32 pm
Mar 20, 2020, 9:53 pm
#1132
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,750
Point is, everyone needs to continually relearn about Covid-19 testing availability, for the timeline is fast evolving.
Mar 20, 2020, 10:04 pm
#1133
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 722
Does the United news infer soon to be no TransAltantic flights at all? Terrible!
When will we come out of this and be back to normality? How can governments allow this nonsense to go on?
When will we come out of this and be back to normality? How can governments allow this nonsense to go on?
Mar 20, 2020, 10:05 pm
#1134
Moderator, El Al and Marriott Bonvoy, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SIN
Programs: SQ*G, Mar LTT, Hyatt Glb, AA LTG, LY, HH, IC, BA, DL, UA SLV
Posts: 12,018
[Redacted quote from deleted post]
Here in Singapore, two days ago, there was a case that very wealthy Indonesian who was diagnosed with the virus, chartered a flight from Indonesia to Singapore to be admitted and treated into Singapore hospital.
Yesterday Singapore government announced that before travelling to Singapore all ASEAN country citizens must obtain pre-travel clearance and permission to enter Singapore. So, in effect it was told to everyone that bank account does not matter.
Here in Singapore, two days ago, there was a case that very wealthy Indonesian who was diagnosed with the virus, chartered a flight from Indonesia to Singapore to be admitted and treated into Singapore hospital.
Yesterday Singapore government announced that before travelling to Singapore all ASEAN country citizens must obtain pre-travel clearance and permission to enter Singapore. So, in effect it was told to everyone that bank account does not matter.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...-yong-12563036
Mar 20, 2020, 10:24 pm
#1135
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ANP
Programs: UA 1k, Marriott Plat, HH gold, Avis/Hertz Pres
Posts: 1,408
I am scared for this industry.
Mar 20, 2020, 11:16 pm
#1136
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,750
It's completely relevant even at this time and will remain so for the entire duration of this public health emergency. As with the inadequate preparation -- even undermining of prior preparations -- by the top of the federal government, the top of the federal government downplaying the threat so often, so much, and for so long is going to be giving the country (and world) consequences going forward too until this public health emergency has passed and things are more or less back to normal.
When leaders don't lead properly, the consequences carry on for quite some time and then some. And that's definitely the case when it comes to this highly communicable disease that spreads exponentially and does so very quickly.
This dynamic is not only applicable to the US, but it's what has gone on in the US with this virus spread. We may be seeing a sort of repeat of the consequences of such approach with Sweden. Maybe even also with the UK. Because of the varied approaches to this situation when it was emerging and still and the lack of full coordination then and still, travel will either remain disrupted longer than would have otherwise been the case or it will be disrupted repeatedly by outbreaks of this. Either way, frequent flyers and other interested travelers will be paying a price of the early messes for quite some time and maybe more than just once.
When leaders don't lead properly, the consequences carry on for quite some time and then some. And that's definitely the case when it comes to this highly communicable disease that spreads exponentially and does so very quickly.
This dynamic is not only applicable to the US, but it's what has gone on in the US with this virus spread. We may be seeing a sort of repeat of the consequences of such approach with Sweden. Maybe even also with the UK. Because of the varied approaches to this situation when it was emerging and still and the lack of full coordination then and still, travel will either remain disrupted longer than would have otherwise been the case or it will be disrupted repeatedly by outbreaks of this. Either way, frequent flyers and other interested travelers will be paying a price of the early messes for quite some time and maybe more than just once.
Even an early broad testing regime may not have changed the public health outcome much, as the report shows. We will never know now, given the absence of initial baselines for the pandemic's progression. These would have been incompletely developed at best, given the asymptomatic transmission pathways of 2019-nCov.
Last edited by FlitBen; Mar 21, 2020 at 5:22 am
Mar 21, 2020, 12:04 am
#1137
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Posts: 102,095
Excuses, excuses, excuses will always be found by some wanting to try to deflect responsibility and minimize accountability for themselves or their favorite. “The dog ate my homework” then becomes “some other dog may have eaten my homework” or some other excuse when it fits a desired narrative that the excuse-maker wants others to eat wholesale.
The US is one of the countries that has put a international passenger flight ban on the table, and nothing indicates that the plan to move on that has stalled. When passenger flight service has already largely disappeared by way of a drop in demand due to public concerns and non-“essential” travel bans, it’s not as difficult, nor as big a leap, for governments to move forward to mandate the end of service of sorts for at least some period of time. Take it as being a form of the slowly-boiled frog approach to institute further controls without facing as much resistance from the public at large and the impacted commercial interests in particular.
The US is one of the countries that has put a international passenger flight ban on the table, and nothing indicates that the plan to move on that has stalled. When passenger flight service has already largely disappeared by way of a drop in demand due to public concerns and non-“essential” travel bans, it’s not as difficult, nor as big a leap, for governments to move forward to mandate the end of service of sorts for at least some period of time. Take it as being a form of the slowly-boiled frog approach to institute further controls without facing as much resistance from the public at large and the impacted commercial interests in particular.
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 21, 2020 at 12:16 am
Mar 21, 2020, 3:20 am
#1138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
I knew it was a bad idea to evacuate Houston with Hurricane Rita approaching. 107 people died in the traffic while only 6 people died in the storm. This is the same thing.... also known as "stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny".
Mar 21, 2020, 3:35 am
#1139
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 765
While I'm inclined to agree that the measures in most countries go beyond what is needed and may be more harmful than the virus, the comparison should be between the traffic deaths and the number of deaths that would have occurred in Houston if it was not evacuated.
Mar 21, 2020, 3:53 am
#1140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
That would be none. The damage was lost electricity, a few blown windows in downtown skyscrapers, and some damaged trees and traffic signals.