Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 20, 2020, 6:47 am
#1036
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,752
First, the President repeatedly dismissed concerns about coronavirus (calling the situation the Democrats' "new hoax") and lied (stating that "Anybody who wants a test gets a test"). He could have treated coronavirus as serious from the beginning. Instead, he dismissed it and lied, and lost time is damaging.
Second, the US ran up huge deficits and government debt and cut taxes, all in a time of prosperity. Now the government is heavily indebted and really can't reduce taxes much more, depriving it of some tools to respond to the economic meltdown.
This is incompetent government at its worst, and we're all paying the price.
Second, the US ran up huge deficits and government debt and cut taxes, all in a time of prosperity. Now the government is heavily indebted and really can't reduce taxes much more, depriving it of some tools to respond to the economic meltdown.
This is incompetent government at its worst, and we're all paying the price.
Everyone needs to learn the facts about actual testing availability and the timeline involved. Do not fall for the anti-government clickbait on partisan sites.
The Facts on Coronavirus Testing
- Part of the confusion has to do with the fact that testing is happening at several different levels — by the CDC, by state and local public health labs, and at hospitals and other facilities — and that the words used to describe the testing aren’t always consistent. -
- FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn provided the clearest answer about testing capacity on March 7, when he said that the CDC had shipped enough kits to state and local public health labs to test 75,000 people for COVID-19. In addition, more than 1.1 million tests manufactured by Integrated DNA Technologies had been shipped as of March 6 for non-public health labs to use, with another 400,000 possibly shipping by March 9. A separate manufacturer had also produced 640,000 tests that could have shipped as early as March 9, once quality control testing was complete.
“The actual number of tests that have shipped is larger than the number of patients that can be tested,” Hahn explained, noting that the approximately 2.1 million tests from IDT and another company would allow roughly 850,000 Americans to be tested. On top of those tests, he added, would be any testing by commercial or academic labs, plus an expected additional 4 million tests from IDT and the other company by the end of this week. The CDC itself also can test approximately 350 specimens per day.
In a March 9 telebriefing, the CDC’s Nancy Messonnier clarified that the 75,000 people that can be tested using the CDC’s test kit in public health labs is a cumulative figure. She also said that in the coming weeks, as more manufacturers join the effort, the “majority” of testing will be from the commercial sector. -
- On a March 6 visit to the CDC, Trump said, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test,” adding, “Anybody right now and yesterday — anybody that needs a test gets a test. We — they’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful.”
When we asked the White House about this, the vice president’s office told us that tests were available through state labs, but that doctors needed to contact the state lab to get one. In other words, if someone wants a test, and a physician does not agree, a person cannot be tested. This point was also made by Anthony Fauci, the director of the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, on “Fox News Sunday,” when he said tests “are out there now,” but “it’s up to the doctor to order the test.”
It’s worth mentioning that even if a test has been shipped, it hasn’t necessarily been received or is ready to use right away; tests also take some time to complete, and so results may not be available immediately.
The CDC maintains that no person was ever denied a coronavirus test, nor was there ever a backlog at the agency. “Our guidance for who can be tested has always allowed room for clinical discretion,” said CDC press officer Richard Quartarone in an email. “That is, if a doctor had a patient who they wanted tested, CDC has not refused any of these requests.” The only exception to that, Quartarone told us, might be a damaged sample. -
- Part of the confusion has to do with the fact that testing is happening at several different levels — by the CDC, by state and local public health labs, and at hospitals and other facilities — and that the words used to describe the testing aren’t always consistent. -
- FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn provided the clearest answer about testing capacity on March 7, when he said that the CDC had shipped enough kits to state and local public health labs to test 75,000 people for COVID-19. In addition, more than 1.1 million tests manufactured by Integrated DNA Technologies had been shipped as of March 6 for non-public health labs to use, with another 400,000 possibly shipping by March 9. A separate manufacturer had also produced 640,000 tests that could have shipped as early as March 9, once quality control testing was complete.
“The actual number of tests that have shipped is larger than the number of patients that can be tested,” Hahn explained, noting that the approximately 2.1 million tests from IDT and another company would allow roughly 850,000 Americans to be tested. On top of those tests, he added, would be any testing by commercial or academic labs, plus an expected additional 4 million tests from IDT and the other company by the end of this week. The CDC itself also can test approximately 350 specimens per day.
In a March 9 telebriefing, the CDC’s Nancy Messonnier clarified that the 75,000 people that can be tested using the CDC’s test kit in public health labs is a cumulative figure. She also said that in the coming weeks, as more manufacturers join the effort, the “majority” of testing will be from the commercial sector. -
- On a March 6 visit to the CDC, Trump said, “Anybody that wants a test can get a test,” adding, “Anybody right now and yesterday — anybody that needs a test gets a test. We — they’re there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful.”
When we asked the White House about this, the vice president’s office told us that tests were available through state labs, but that doctors needed to contact the state lab to get one. In other words, if someone wants a test, and a physician does not agree, a person cannot be tested. This point was also made by Anthony Fauci, the director of the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, on “Fox News Sunday,” when he said tests “are out there now,” but “it’s up to the doctor to order the test.”
It’s worth mentioning that even if a test has been shipped, it hasn’t necessarily been received or is ready to use right away; tests also take some time to complete, and so results may not be available immediately.
The CDC maintains that no person was ever denied a coronavirus test, nor was there ever a backlog at the agency. “Our guidance for who can be tested has always allowed room for clinical discretion,” said CDC press officer Richard Quartarone in an email. “That is, if a doctor had a patient who they wanted tested, CDC has not refused any of these requests.” The only exception to that, Quartarone told us, might be a damaged sample. -
Mar 20, 2020, 6:50 am
#1037
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
As for me, I think depression is way too strong a word for how I feel, but I really just want a place to vent and I think most people I talk to don't appreciate how much travel means to us so this seemed like a good place to vent.
So for my story....
....
I live alone and basically I can't interact with anyone (outside of work) for the next month because any sort of social gathering is forbidden. I had a trip planned with a friend in a couple weeks to see a baseball game in DFW but that obviously won't happen. I had a Micronesia trip planned at the end of April that I've been wanting to do for years but that can't happen either (it's now scheduled for November).
Yeah, I realize this is a terrible thing happening out there. I'm also a healthcare provider so I understand the severity of what's going on. I'm also 32. I see those kids in Florida talking about how they don't care and they are getting so heavily chastised for it. Yeah, it's an ignorant thing to say, but can you really blame them? I plan my work schedule out the entire calendar year in advanced so it will be extraordinarily difficult to rearrange most of my currently-planned trips if they have to be rescheduled. I'm also feeling lousy that I had a bunch of people cover my shifts to take this trip that wasn't and now I have to work myself to death next month to repay that debt.
So for my story....
....
I live alone and basically I can't interact with anyone (outside of work) for the next month because any sort of social gathering is forbidden. I had a trip planned with a friend in a couple weeks to see a baseball game in DFW but that obviously won't happen. I had a Micronesia trip planned at the end of April that I've been wanting to do for years but that can't happen either (it's now scheduled for November).
Yeah, I realize this is a terrible thing happening out there. I'm also a healthcare provider so I understand the severity of what's going on. I'm also 32. I see those kids in Florida talking about how they don't care and they are getting so heavily chastised for it. Yeah, it's an ignorant thing to say, but can you really blame them? I plan my work schedule out the entire calendar year in advanced so it will be extraordinarily difficult to rearrange most of my currently-planned trips if they have to be rescheduled. I'm also feeling lousy that I had a bunch of people cover my shifts to take this trip that wasn't and now I have to work myself to death next month to repay that debt.
I cut your message a little bit, sorry, but wanted to emphasise on the most important thing you wrote. I understand that you came into realization that the life you knew as normal is in past now, at least for next several month and I hope not for years. Realization of such change is shocking - pretty much everyone will go thru similar situation.
But...if I understand you correctly - you either work in healthcare industry or are a care provider. Listen, if this is the case, you are in the front line of the battle right now. This is everyone's war, but this is your war, you are on the very frontline right now. Other people's lives will depend on you now.
No need to feel sorry and lousy for what happened in past - you can't change it. What you can change is future. And people who are in healthcare are the one who are on the frontline of the battle.
Again - it is everyone's war right now. We will win it, I have no doubt.
Mar 20, 2020, 6:57 am
#1038
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: TPA/ABZ
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold. GGL/CCR.
Posts: 13,252
https://www.pbs.org/video/what-this-...vid-19-ybsbtd/
Mar 20, 2020, 6:57 am
#1039
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
Mar 20, 2020, 7:01 am
#1040
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
The second wave has experts very concerned, so the need to get this thing addressed now is critical.
Mar 20, 2020, 7:09 am
#1041
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 16,871
I know you personally don't have the answer so these are just my musings.
Mar 20, 2020, 7:09 am
#1042
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,900
Another thread was merged here where people were discussing how to work from home and not get depressed after some time.
I might give one suggestion - if you are a team lead/manager, do not cut down communication with your team members. It does not mean that number of emails needs to be doubled. Instead, if your team members are in the same geographical/timezone area, try to have short, like 15 minute Zoom/Skype/Teams/Slack/Webex/Hangout/etc video calls. Word video is important - let you see each other, waive to each other and each team member says for two minutes what was happening with him last 24-48 hours, not necessarily work related.
Above will be somehow (not ideal) and digital replacement of watercooler talks. This also help to remove anxiety from people and let them know that they are valuable and others want to see/listen to them.
Stay safe and healthy everyone.
I might give one suggestion - if you are a team lead/manager, do not cut down communication with your team members. It does not mean that number of emails needs to be doubled. Instead, if your team members are in the same geographical/timezone area, try to have short, like 15 minute Zoom/Skype/Teams/Slack/Webex/Hangout/etc video calls. Word video is important - let you see each other, waive to each other and each team member says for two minutes what was happening with him last 24-48 hours, not necessarily work related.
Above will be somehow (not ideal) and digital replacement of watercooler talks. This also help to remove anxiety from people and let them know that they are valuable and others want to see/listen to them.
Stay safe and healthy everyone.
Mar 20, 2020, 7:17 am
#1044
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
This is the Lily pad example shown graphically (see 2m 40s). It's extremely well presented and I'm posting it here in case it convinces just one "non-believer" that it's worth heeding the scientific advice.
https://www.pbs.org/video/what-this-...vid-19-ybsbtd/
https://www.pbs.org/video/what-this-...vid-19-ybsbtd/
Watch that video to see why that might be necessary.
Mar 20, 2020, 7:19 am
#1045
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Just so I’m understanding you correctly, Americans were a bigger contributor to the outbreak in Europe than Chinese travelers? How is that even logistically possible, and what’s your source?
Bavarians have been asked to shelter in place and not go out except for essentials for the next 14 days so I guess Germany is aiming for that April 18th date. Holland is reopening to the world sooner at April 6th, so I’m assuming they want to keep commerce and tourism moving and can do so safely. All this injection of government money into financial markets isn’t hurting either.
Bavarians have been asked to shelter in place and not go out except for essentials for the next 14 days so I guess Germany is aiming for that April 18th date. Holland is reopening to the world sooner at April 6th, so I’m assuming they want to keep commerce and tourism moving and can do so safely. All this injection of government money into financial markets isn’t hurting either.
Mar 20, 2020, 7:28 am
#1046
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
Here is a good write-up on what went wrong with testing in the US. The WHO sent out tests in early Feb, but the US wanted their own:
"The notion of accepting a test developed by someone else I think was a bit alien," Schaffner said. "There may have been other considerations of which I'm not aware, but I'm sure that pride was one of them: 'We know how to do this, thank you very much. We'll develop our own.'"
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-c...-was-limited-4
Mar 20, 2020, 8:01 am
#1047
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
Mar 20, 2020, 8:33 am
#1048
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SBP
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Titanium, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 533
But...if I understand you correctly - you either work in healthcare industry or are a care provider. Listen, if this is the case, you are in the front line of the battle right now. This is everyone's war, but this is your war, you are on the very frontline right now. Other people's lives will depend on you now.
Mar 20, 2020, 8:37 am
#1049
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
There's a LOT more than went wrong than that. The article I posted a link to explains it pretty well.
Mar 20, 2020, 8:44 am
#1050
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,856
I might give one suggestion - if you are a team lead/manager, do not cut down communication with your team members. It does not mean that number of emails needs to be doubled. Instead, if your team members are in the same geographical/timezone area, try to have short, like 15 minute Zoom/Skype/Teams/Slack/Webex/Hangout/etc video calls. Word video is important - let you see each other, waive to each other and each team member says for two minutes what was happening with him last 24-48 hours, not necessarily work related.
Above will be somehow (not ideal) and digital replacement of watercooler talks. This also help to remove anxiety from people and let them know that they are valuable and others want to see/listen to them.
Above will be somehow (not ideal) and digital replacement of watercooler talks. This also help to remove anxiety from people and let them know that they are valuable and others want to see/listen to them.