Dec 13, 2016, 11:12 pm
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Routes to/from LGW*/LCY/STN are NOT affected. Only flights to/from LHR* are potentially affected. If you think you may be affected, post 2714 (click here) may be helpful.
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
Ballot results for industrial action:
*The LGW-JFK flight has seen a lot of cancellations for the current strike period.
Current strike period:
- None
Next announced strike period:
Previous strike periods:
- 25th December 2016 from 00:01 for 48 hours. (Strike action was suspended following ACAS discussions and revised offer.)
- 10th & 11th January 2017
- 19th January 2017 for 72 hours until 21st January
- 5th-7th & 9th-11th February 2017
- 17th-20th February 2017
- 22nd-25th February 2017
- 3rd-9th March 2017
- 16th-19th June 2017 (suspended pending further ACAS talks)
- 1st-16th July 2017
- 19th July-1st August 2017
- 2nd-15th August 2017
- 16th-30th August 2017
Routes affected:
As a possible indication, for the fifth strike period BA announced the following cancellations:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27910044-post2131.html as well as flights to and from Doha on all affected days (17 - 20 February).
Mixed fleet routes are listed here, though note that other (non Mixed Fleet) flights from Heathrow are also being cancelled.
Note for context in terms of how many routes might actually be affected: there are about 4000 members of MF (of which ~2,700 are Unite members and therefore eligible to take industrial action) and 15,000 total cabin crew
Background Details from BA:
Strike 19th July-1st August
2nd August-16th August
Background Details from Unite:
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...ty-pay-levels/
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/br...refuses-talks/
Latest negotiating position:
Talks at ACAS in June appear to have failed, with a further two week strike commencing 1st July announced on 16th June.
Key upcoming dates:
- Latest negotiated position (@ 23rd Oct 2017) between BA & Unite to be balloted. Rumoured that the union is recommending acceptance.
Ballot results for industrial action:
- First ballot, November 2016: Yes 79.5%, No 20.5%
- Second ballot, December 2016: Yes 70%, No 30%
- Third ballot, March 2017: Yes 56%, No 44%, turnout 72%
BA 'Mixed Fleet' cabin crew dispute [agreement reached]
Dec 24, 2016, 1:33 am
#1006
Moderator: Qatar Airways
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LHR/NCE/MIA
Programs: BAEC GfL & GGL, SQ Gold, Amex Centurion, Mucci des Chevaliers des Bons Mots et Qui Savent Moucher
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I'm not wholly familiar with how ACAS works, but is the Union, in this case Unite, legally required to present any and all offers made by the airline?
And, if so, does that mean that every time an offer is presented by Unite to its representatives, the Strike is postponed while they ballot their members?
If so, could BA not just keep producing offers, in the hope of delaying the strike action?
M
And, if so, does that mean that every time an offer is presented by Unite to its representatives, the Strike is postponed while they ballot their members?
If so, could BA not just keep producing offers, in the hope of delaying the strike action?
M
Dec 24, 2016, 1:56 am
#1007
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,202
Apparently no one reads the Unite website. Here is the statement on the suspension of the strike
Unite the union has confirmed that the Christmas strike by British Airways ‘mixed fleet’ cabin crew has been suspended.
The decision follows a revised offer from the airline, which will now be put to a ballot of our members.
The union will now put the renewed offer to its 2,700 plus mixed fleet members at British Airways.
Commenting Unite general secretary Len McCluskey said: “Over the past four days, and indeed the past two years, this union has worked tirelessly to find a resolution to the issues causing our members concern.
“We now have a new offer from the company which we will put to our members. The two day strike over Christmas and Boxing Day is now suspended.
“It will be for our members now to decide if British Airways has done enough to meet their concerns.
“I want to pay tribute to our cabin crew members who have been determined to achieve a negotiated settlement. Their commitment to secure a better deal for all of their colleagues is something we should all admire.”
The decision follows a revised offer from the airline, which will now be put to a ballot of our members.
The union will now put the renewed offer to its 2,700 plus mixed fleet members at British Airways.
Commenting Unite general secretary Len McCluskey said: “Over the past four days, and indeed the past two years, this union has worked tirelessly to find a resolution to the issues causing our members concern.
“We now have a new offer from the company which we will put to our members. The two day strike over Christmas and Boxing Day is now suspended.
“It will be for our members now to decide if British Airways has done enough to meet their concerns.
“I want to pay tribute to our cabin crew members who have been determined to achieve a negotiated settlement. Their commitment to secure a better deal for all of their colleagues is something we should all admire.”
Dec 24, 2016, 2:42 am
#1008
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,479
A very large number of posts have been removed concerning whether or not BA operated empty planes in previous strike periods many years ago.
The suggestion had already been made, it was denied by other posters, and it does not add anything to the debate to continue to frequently raise it in a manner which personally challenges other posters - it merely stifles and disrupts the thread.
Let's stick to discussing what might happen in the current dispute, please - this is far more likely to provide illumination and understanding for the members.
NWIFlyer
Moderator
BAEC
The suggestion had already been made, it was denied by other posters, and it does not add anything to the debate to continue to frequently raise it in a manner which personally challenges other posters - it merely stifles and disrupts the thread.
12.3 Disruptive or repetitive posting
Posts that are inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative are not allowed.
Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
Posts that are inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative are not allowed.
Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
NWIFlyer
Moderator
BAEC
Dec 24, 2016, 4:30 am
#1009
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I'm not wholly familiar with how ACAS works, but is the Union, in this case Unite, legally required to present any and all offers made by the airline?
And, if so, does that mean that every time an offer is presented by Unite to its representatives, the Strike is postponed while they ballot their members?
If so, could BA not just keep producing offers, in the hope of delaying the strike action?
M
And, if so, does that mean that every time an offer is presented by Unite to its representatives, the Strike is postponed while they ballot their members?
If so, could BA not just keep producing offers, in the hope of delaying the strike action?
M
However before they involve ACAS both parties must agree to take it seriously.
Even if Unite's negotiators would dismiss the offer out of hand, ballotting members shows good faith on Unite's part, strengthens their negotiating position, and I imagine improves their public image.
If BA started producing deliberately bad offers every day, I don't think the same reasoning would apply and ACAS might not be too happy with the abuse of their process either.
Last edited by Calchas; Dec 24, 2016 at 4:38 am
Dec 24, 2016, 9:55 am
#1010
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco
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Does anyone know or have an opinion on:
1) When will the vote be completed?
2) If the offer is rejected, when is the next possible/likely date for a strike?
Thanks!
1) When will the vote be completed?
2) If the offer is rejected, when is the next possible/likely date for a strike?
Thanks!
Dec 24, 2016, 10:13 am
#1011
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,202
the union has to give 7 days notice
Dec 24, 2016, 10:41 am
#1012
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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I hope for MF that the new offer is a significant improvement over the previous one. Good luck to them fighting for decent working conditions.
Dec 24, 2016, 5:33 pm
#1015
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 719
It is a significant improvement to move Mixed Fleet closer to market rate. There is a 4.6% on all main crew basics and a 10% increase on the CSM basic. Although it is a significant improvement on what was previously being offered, there are a few sticking points. BA will be conducting a benchmarking exercise for Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew in 2017 as the pay increase is an increase but still isn't as competitive as other UK operators. There will be no back dated pay considering this paydeal should've been ready for the beginning of this financial year in the spring. The Elapsed Hourly Rate which pays for all of our food and drink downroute has been increased to £3.29 but the union was pushing for £3.40 which is the rate paid to the Flight Crew for their sustenance downroute. All that said, it is real movement. The elapsed hourly rate and the lack of back pay will be their undoing though, I think.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
Dec 25, 2016, 1:48 am
#1016
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London Heathrow
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 173
It is a significant improvement to move Mixed Fleet closer to market rate. There is a 4.6% on all main crew basics and a 10% increase on the CSM basic. Although it is a significant improvement on what was previously being offered, there are a few sticking points. BA will be conducting a benchmarking exercise for Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew in 2017 as the pay increase is an increase but still isn't as competitive as other UK operators. There will be no back dated pay considering this paydeal should've been ready for the beginning of this financial year in the spring. The Elapsed Hourly Rate which pays for all of our food and drink downroute has been increased to £3.29 but the union was pushing for £3.40 which is the rate paid to the Flight Crew for their sustenance downroute. All that said, it is real movement. The elapsed hourly rate and the lack of back pay will be their undoing though, I think.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
As as for the main crew offer, general consensus so far reading between the lines on social media and crew room chatter is that the offer will be rejected.
Regards
D1L
Dec 25, 2016, 4:16 am
#1017
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
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I would suspect that if the offer is rejected and further strikes are scheduled thereafter, public sympathy will shift from crew towards BA. If the offer isn't good enough, I hope Unite's PR machine is already thinking about how it's going to project this.
Dec 25, 2016, 4:24 am
#1018
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
I would have to say that BA has actually been very clever here. What they're giving away in absolute terms is relatively small, but in percentage terms the General Public - who will absolutely not understand the nuances of this dispute and the background - will look at 4.6% and consider it very generous against what they'll be getting in their own jobs.
I would suspect that if the offer is rejected and further strikes are scheduled thereafter, public sympathy will shift from crew towards BA. If the offer isn't good enough, I hope Unite's PR machine is already thinking about how it's going to project this.
I would suspect that if the offer is rejected and further strikes are scheduled thereafter, public sympathy will shift from crew towards BA. If the offer isn't good enough, I hope Unite's PR machine is already thinking about how it's going to project this.
Dec 25, 2016, 1:16 pm
#1019
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
It is a significant improvement to move Mixed Fleet closer to market rate. There is a 4.6% on all main crew basics and a 10% increase on the CSM basic. Although it is a significant improvement on what was previously being offered, there are a few sticking points. BA will be conducting a benchmarking exercise for Mixed Fleet Cabin Crew in 2017 as the pay increase is an increase but still isn't as competitive as other UK operators. There will be no back dated pay considering this paydeal should've been ready for the beginning of this financial year in the spring. The Elapsed Hourly Rate which pays for all of our food and drink downroute has been increased to £3.29 but the union was pushing for £3.40 which is the rate paid to the Flight Crew for their sustenance downroute. All that said, it is real movement. The elapsed hourly rate and the lack of back pay will be their undoing though, I think.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
A Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones though, Littlegirl.
Dec 26, 2016, 4:50 am
#1020
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,630
Post 7 says that CSM's have had no pay rise since 2010, yet post 1016 says they have had a pay rise every year. Also, is it really the case that somebody who joined MF 3 or 4 years ago on £12k is still on £12k. I find that difficult to believe.
I don't think public sympathy was ever with the crews (certainly not with Unite)
http://news.sky.com/story/current-sp...ntent-10707398
To paraphrase
When we asked if people supported the current strikes by transport and postal service workers, 48% of people said they didn't. Just 26% were in favour.
And when asked who was to blame for the current strikes, 40% said the unions, 21% the Government, and just 18% the companies themselves.
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Dec 26, 2016 at 5:36 am Reason: Admin merge to help readability