cmtlatitudes

AA's current guidance is a mask is not required if someone has a condition preventing it. The problem is AA's guidance does not state 1) a passenger is required to have a doctor's note or certificate confirming a condition, 2) or that the passenger is required to disclose the condition to an airline employee on request. This is different than an emotional support animal, where a certificate is required (no matter if someone is gaming the system). And a requirement to disclose the specifics of a condition is against ADA guidelines.

It's unfortunate this appears to be a passenger with a social media agenda and trying to make a point, instead of a bona fide concern. However that doesn't change the fact that the FA was way out of line IMO, in asking the person if he had a doctor's note or equivalent, asking him disclose more information, and threatening to deny him to fly. Based upon AA's currently posted guidance as of 800 pm this evening, a passenger has a right to state they have a condition and fly without a mask unfortunately.

If AA wants to enforce this as more than theater, they need to: a) change their statement to remove a condition as an exception, or b) require a doctor's certification and make the policy effective in 3-5 days so anyone flying who needs to has the opportunity to obtain the required certification. Then if they don't have it, and/or still refuse to wear one, sure, by all means throw 'em off the plane! But based on AA's current website what happened on that flight was not in line with AA's own policies.

And by the way, AA should be prepared for more nuttiness on flights to Tulsa in the next few days. 🙄



This is the cut & paste of guidance from AA's website:A face covering is required while flying on American, except for very young children or anyone with a condition that prevents them from wearing one. You also may be required by local law to wear a face covering in the airport where your trip begins, where it ends or where you connect.

• Please bring your own face covering to use while traveling. While limited quantities of face coverings may be available at the gate, they will not be available for every customer on every flight.
• Be sure your face covering is on before you board the plane and wear it during your flight. If you’re not exempt from wearing a face covering and decline to wear one, you may be denied boarding and future travel on American.
• Your face covering may be removed to eat or drink, but please put it back on when you’re done.

Keep in mind, a face covering can be a mask or any secured cloth like a scarf or bandana that covers your nose and mouth. Visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website for more information.

enviroian

Yeah I put “condition” right among “ESA”.

cmtlatitudes

Mostly, me too. 🙄

My Aunt has asthma and allergies and short of breath. She's normally level headed and calm. If she wears a mask for more than a few minutes she struggles, ends up breathing horribly hard so every breath nearly blows the mask off. The first time she had to wear one back at work she became so agitated and anxious because she couldn't breathe she had a panic attack and started crying and then of course made the breathing worse. It was a basically a meltdown. She decided to take an early retirement offer the next day. Is it her breathing or anxiety and nerves? Honestly, no idea. It's not like her. But when she has to put one on to go in a grocery or store she's in almost in a state of panic.

I don't know what the answer is. Other than AA requiring a certification. And of course, yes, they will be bought and sold and abused as ESAs are.

I'm flying for the first time this weekend since January and am dreading it.

Loose Cannon

That ought to be a slam dunk ADA case. Any airline or grocery store or other business that denies such persons access ought to get whacked with a MAJOR judgment.

deeruck

Does ADA apply to airlines?

Drwaz99

No. Air Carrier Access Act does.

cmtlatitudes

There's no easy answer. Truth is, no matter how badly I feel about someone with an honest to goodness issue, and think American was fundamentally in the wrong in yesterday's incident based on their mask requirements as currently stated, I wouldn't have been happy being on that plane.

To take that further, if I knew during boarding the stranger sitting next to me would not wear a mask during the flight, there's a good chance I'd ask quietly to be accommodated on another flight. Many variables would factor into that decision of course. The thing is there's no guarantee there wouldn't be a mask-less person sitting next to me on the next flight either.

We'll see what happens on my flights this weekend. I'll be the nervous looking person with a stash of airplane bottles and a straw because I'll probably be scared to take my mask off.

jamesinclair

Actually, I dont think so.

ADA is an extremely detailed law, and provides excellent guidance for things like a service animals, wheelchairs etc.

But I dont remember it including anything about NOT wearing a mask being discriminatory.

That is, imagine a policy that required everyone to use a wheelchair inside a store. ADA would have no issue with that.

Same thing with requiring proof of medical condition. ADA is very clear that you cannot ask someone to describe their disability if they bring a service animal. But ADA also allows employers to mandate a doctors note if someone requires special accommodation or calls out sick. Once the doctors note is provided, the employer must provide reasonable accommodation.

AA is doing exactly that. Show proof and you can be accommodated.

Smiley90

If someone claims they have a medical condition that prevents them from wearing a mask, it's very likely the act of flying itself is dangerous to them, since an airplane is a much larger stress on your respiratory system.

Airlines are allowed to refuse someone on a plane if they deem them not medically cleared to fly and are definitely allowed to ask for a doctor's note declaring them clear to fly - I don't see how they're not allowed to ask for documentation that the customer cannot wear a mask but CAN fly. The doctor's note doesn't have to go into the details of why specifically (e.g. what specific condition), but a generic one making it sure the person is not at risk of asphyxiation mid-flight can certainly be requested.

If I was an FA and someone came up to me and said their condition is so severe a mask puts them at risk of asphyxiation, I'd be very worried about how a high-altitude flight in a pressurized metal tube would affect them.

And this doesn't even go into their public health risk, which is an additional liability concern for the airline.

dangersquid

The ADA explicitly does not apply to aircraft. The text of the law actually says "...except for aircraft." over and over again. The ADA has no relevance.

cmtlatitudes

The only issue with a doctor's note for a legitimate condition is AA doesn't state on their website it's required. All they need to do is add the requirement & give an effective date 3-5 days out so anyone with a legitimate issue has a reasonable opportunity to obtain documentation before they fly.

Yes, there will still be some selfish jerks who go to extremes to come with up with phony documentation, or pay $$$ at a private clinic to get a doctor to certify them, or exploit the sympathies of a physician when their case doesn't really warrant it. But that's a whole lot of trouble if you don't have a legitimate condition with your doctor already well acquainted with your case and on speed dial. Most people will just wear the mask if AA requires documentation.

Mynoles1

I'm sorry for any lack of empathy here, but enough is enough. American/United and others, good for you - throw the violators off the plane. Stop kissing everyone's tail and worrying about being PC. No one like wearing a mask, FACT - we got it, but this is a stated requirement. If you don't like it, or you don't feel your health allows - take the family sedan!! Otherwise, buck up, put on the mask and STFU.

Have a nice day......

metallo

The problem is, even for those of us who would be the 100% mask-wearing type, we don't want to see altercations on our flights for any reason, including debates over mask-wearing.

I'll have some tolerance for the non-mask-wearers, as long as there aren't flights on the plane and diversions with police coming on board, etc. Everyone needs to realize that, even with 100% masks, there's some risk, and if you're truly so risk-averse, you must stay home.

If you see someone doing something you don't like on board, consider peacefully ignoring it and focusing on keeping yourself well, as best as you can, without dragging others into it. Make sure you're wearing at least an N95, if possible (Hudson News is selling KN95s currently, by the way).

We need less air rage and more people minding their own business.

Mynoles1

Agree totally. My comments are meant for consideration LONG ahead of ever leaving home for the airport.

Governator

Thanks for the reference. So all the ADA comments don't apply. But it seems pretty clear from the ACAA that you can state you have a disability and not be challenged. Seems the only exception is if they state in writing that you are a direct threat to others. That's a large step for an airline to take.