Mar 12, 2018, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF configurations and plans for deliveries and retrofitting the long-haul fleet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below
Last update on 15 JUL 2025
All the long-haul fleet is equipped with lie-flat seats in J. All the long-haul fleet is in 1-2-1 configuration in J with direct aisle access, with the exception of the A332 which are in 2-2-2 configuration.
B772
21 planes, all B772 with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is nearing completion to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with the final frames in the hanger for refurbishment
- J seating is 1-2-1
- W seat is a hard-shell seat (the 1st generation of W seats installed by AF)
- Seating Config: C28W32Y268
B77W
4P Version with "Old" P (19 planes out of 43 77W : F-GSQA, F-GSQB, F-GSQC, F-GSQF, F-GSQG, F-GSQH, F-GSQI, F-GSQJ, F-GSQK, F-GSQL, F-GSQM, F-GSQU, F-GSQV, F-GSQY, F-GZNA, F-GZNB, F-GZNC, F-GZND, and F-GZNE)Last update on 15 JUL 2025
All the long-haul fleet is equipped with lie-flat seats in J. All the long-haul fleet is in 1-2-1 configuration in J with direct aisle access, with the exception of the A332 which are in 2-2-2 configuration.
B772
21 planes, all B772 with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is nearing completion to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with the final frames in the hanger for refurbishment
- J seating is 1-2-1
- W seat is a hard-shell seat (the 1st generation of W seats installed by AF)
- Seating Config: C28W32Y268
B77W
- J seating is 1-2-1 (Zodiac Cirrus seat), aka BEST cabin, same as B772
- W seat is a hard-shell seat (the 1st generation of W seats installed by AF)
- Seating config: F4C58W28Y206
4P Version with "New" P (3 planes : F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ).
[F-GZND arrived @ ORY 08 APR for mods]
- New La Premier cabin with chaise lounge
- New J seat: Safran Cirrus 5C03 suites with a door in a 1-2-1 configuration
- W seat: Recaro PL3530 seats
- Seating config: F4C60W44Y204
COI version (14J) (12 planes out of 43 B77W : F-GSQO, F-GSQP, F-GSQT, F-GSQX, F-GZNG. F-GSQS, F-GZNF, F-GSQR, F-GSQN, F-GZNO, F-GZNL and F-GZNN).
- The J seat is Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the initial batch of A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat, in a 1-2-1 configuration
- The W seat is the same as in the B789, i.e a hard-shell seat with a very slightly improved version compared to B772 and B77W (version with P).
- Seating config: C14W28Y430
Remaining 77W (9 planes out of 43 B77W : F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, F-GZNH, F-GSQD and F-GSQE)
- These planes were the former "NEV4" ones. Retrofits started in March 2022 and were completed in June 2024.
- New J seat: Safran Cirrus 5C03 suites with a door in a 1-2-1 configuration
- W seat: Recaro PL3530 seats
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ). No further deliveries are planned for AF (the initial order was for 15 frames, but the 5 remaining ones have been assigned to KL).
- J seat is BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation). The main difference with the B777 is the smaller tablet.
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a hard-shell seat with a very slightly improved version compared to B772 and B77W (version with P).
- Seating config: C30W21Y228
A332
- As of 11/2025, only 7 planes remain in service (F-GZCA/F/G/K/M/N/O), but F & N are not flying at the moment, so only 5 are active. They are mostly flying to SXM, BLR, BEY, and some Africa routes (LAD, PNR, BZV, LFW).
- J seating is 2-2-2, with the Stelia Equinoxe seat (a similar seat can be seen in the UX B787).
- The W seat is the same as in the B789, i.e a hard-shell seat with a very slightly improved version compared to B772 and B77W (version with P).
- Seating config: C36W21Y167
A359
39 planes have been delivered as of 11/07/2025:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- J seat is Zodiac Optima, same as in B77W COI version)
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- Seating config: C34W24Y266
Second batch (19/21): F-HUVA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/
- The new seat (Stelia Opera) is a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy (similar to the one placed in the last batch of retrofitted B77W, with small differences).
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- Seating config: C48W32Y212
RETIRED PLANE TYPES
Last plane was withdrawn in 2020.
Remaining 77W (9 planes out of 43 B77W : F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, F-GZNH, F-GSQD and F-GSQE)
- These planes were the former "NEV4" ones. Retrofits started in March 2022 and were completed in June 2024.
- New J seat: Safran Cirrus 5C03 suites with a door in a 1-2-1 configuration
- W seat: Recaro PL3530 seats
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ). No further deliveries are planned for AF (the initial order was for 15 frames, but the 5 remaining ones have been assigned to KL).
- J seat is BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation). The main difference with the B777 is the smaller tablet.
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a hard-shell seat with a very slightly improved version compared to B772 and B77W (version with P).
- Seating config: C30W21Y228
A332
- As of 11/2025, only 7 planes remain in service (F-GZCA/F/G/K/M/N/O), but F & N are not flying at the moment, so only 5 are active. They are mostly flying to SXM, BLR, BEY, and some Africa routes (LAD, PNR, BZV, LFW).
- J seating is 2-2-2, with the Stelia Equinoxe seat (a similar seat can be seen in the UX B787).
- The W seat is the same as in the B789, i.e a hard-shell seat with a very slightly improved version compared to B772 and B77W (version with P).
- Seating config: C36W21Y167
A359
39 planes have been delivered as of 11/07/2025:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- J seat is Zodiac Optima, same as in B77W COI version)
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- Seating config: C34W24Y266
Second batch (19/21): F-HUVA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/
- The new seat (Stelia Opera) is a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy (similar to the one placed in the last batch of retrofitted B77W, with small differences).
- J seating is 1-2-1
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- Seating config: C48W32Y212
RETIRED PLANE TYPES
A343
Last plane was withdrawn in 2021.
A388Last plane was withdrawn in 2020.
updated information about new J seats deployments and other information
Apr 5, 2020 | 2:28 am
#226
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Agree. The best assumption is probably that demand picks up slowly and flights will be resumed gradually, so they will have excess planes parked on the ground for 12-18 months. So as soon as they start selling tickets again (liquidity comes in) they will have enough spare capacity to refit those planes sitting idle on the ground.
Apr 5, 2020 | 6:11 am
#227
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Agree. The best assumption is probably that demand picks up slowly and flights will be resumed gradually, so they will have excess planes parked on the ground for 12-18 months. So as soon as they start selling tickets again (liquidity comes in) they will have enough spare capacity to refit those planes sitting idle on the ground.
I am quite pessimistic for a sustained refurbishment program.
Apr 5, 2020 | 8:21 am
#228
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I understand that liquidity is a concern in the short-term, however companies which invest in times of a crisis will come back stronger afterwards. I understand that they cannot run the full refurbishment program now, however when we see demand coming back gradually, they should use the incoming cash-flow from operations for investments in the still grounded part of the fleet.
Apr 5, 2020 | 9:05 am
#229
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
I understand that liquidity is a concern in the short-term, however companies which invest in times of a crisis will come back stronger afterwards. I understand that they cannot run the full refurbishment program now, however when we see demand coming back gradually, they should use the incoming cash-flow from operations for investments in the still grounded part of the fleet.
Apr 5, 2020 | 12:06 pm
#230
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Apr 6, 2020 | 3:00 am
#231
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I understand that liquidity is a concern in the short-term, however companies which invest in times of a crisis will come back stronger afterwards. I understand that they cannot run the full refurbishment program now, however when we see demand coming back gradually, they should use the incoming cash-flow from operations for investments in the still grounded part of the fleet.
What is very worrying is the future. A common guess is that this is not a blip, but will lead to structural changes in the airline industry and the way people travel. Leaner fleets are likely.
Apr 6, 2020 | 3:57 am
#232
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+1. I don't think the airline industry will recover thru the end of this year at all, even if the situation improves. People won't look at travel the same way, and airlines will probably continue to defer deliveries of new aircraft and refurbishments. It's not like AF/KLM was sitting on a huge pile of free cash to begin with before this mess started.
Apr 6, 2020 | 4:16 am
#233
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So the best thing we can hope for is that AF sends the non-refurbished planes to the desert (A380, A340, the NEV4-777s) and only keeps the refurbished ones flying. That way the likelihood of being on a plane with a refurbished cabin will increase dramatically.
Apr 6, 2020 | 4:42 am
#234
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Except that "opportunity cost" doesn't require cash. Refurbishing a plane does. I don't know how they treat those programs from an accounting perspective, but I assume those cabins are depreciated over time, so the net income impact can be "buffered" (calling Professor brunos for help). But Air France still needs to pay the invoice of the company doing the refurbishment. Even if things turn out very well and airline travel rebounds then all the revenue generated then will be needed to pay off huge debt (looks like the French and Dutch governments will guarantee some massive loans), and reduce the FY loss. And on the cash side, it will be kept to (re-)create a buffer after current cash reserves are depleted in the months of March-May.
So the best thing we can hope for is that AF sends the non-refurbished planes to the desert (A380, A340, the NEV4-777s) and only keeps the refurbished ones flying. That way the likelihood of being on a plane with a refurbished cabin will increase dramatically.
So the best thing we can hope for is that AF sends the non-refurbished planes to the desert (A380, A340, the NEV4-777s) and only keeps the refurbished ones flying. That way the likelihood of being on a plane with a refurbished cabin will increase dramatically.
It is interesting to see how airlines are being bailed out in different countries.
Many countries logically seem to direct funding/bailout to the companies themselves, often with strings attached regarding employment. The companies are the employers. It seems logical and giving them more flexibility to go that route. France seems to be subsidizing employees directly, at some minimum level. Hence, more funding will be needed for a lot of French companies. As typical in a former socialist State, France is talking about nationalizing Air France. If we see what is happening with SNCF, this does not seem like a great idea. In any case,AF will need to severely downsize as the next couple of years will be tough. A fifty percent capacity in 2021 compared to 2019 might be a reasonable plan, unless some health miracle happens.
Just my usual controversial two cents.
Apr 6, 2020 | 5:19 am
#235
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In situations of profound crisis like the current one, temporary nationalisations can be a sensible way forward. From a public acceptability perspective, asking shareholders to take a haircut in return for state aid, which partial or total nationalisations often entails, can also be a sensible move.
Apr 6, 2020 | 3:22 pm
#236
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
Except that "opportunity cost" doesn't require cash. Refurbishing a plane does. I don't know how they treat those programs from an accounting perspective, but I assume those cabins are depreciated over time, so the net income impact can be "buffered" (calling Professor brunos for help). But Air France still needs to pay the invoice of the company doing the refurbishment. Even if things turn out very well and airline travel rebounds then all the revenue generated then will be needed to pay off huge debt (looks like the French and Dutch governments will guarantee some massive loans), and reduce the FY loss. And on the cash side, it will be kept to (re-)create a buffer after current cash reserves are depleted in the months of March-May.
So the best thing we can hope for is that AF sends the non-refurbished planes to the desert (A380, A340, the NEV4-777s) and only keeps the refurbished ones flying. That way the likelihood of being on a plane with a refurbished cabin will increase dramatically.
So the best thing we can hope for is that AF sends the non-refurbished planes to the desert (A380, A340, the NEV4-777s) and only keeps the refurbished ones flying. That way the likelihood of being on a plane with a refurbished cabin will increase dramatically.
Only the maintenance occurred by forced parked aircraft is processed.
Last edited by Bullspread; Apr 6, 2020 at 11:12 pm
Apr 6, 2020 | 11:26 pm
#237
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Apr 7, 2020 | 2:52 pm
#238
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Apr 8, 2020 | 12:00 pm
#239
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Let's simply not forget that right now retrofitting the aircraft isn't a "essential business" and can't be done while working from home. While it does make sense to retrofit the aircrafts when they are on the ground it's something to resume once the lockdown restrictions are lifted. It will still take some time for travel to pick up again after that.
Apr 12, 2020 | 11:09 am
#240
Join Date: Feb 2012
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I do not intend to have a flight in P but I wonder if only 19 aircraft with 4 P seats is enough to maintain it as a product in case A380 are retired sooner than expected?
How many seats are offered by the competition which offers P class ?
How many seats are offered by the competition which offers P class ?