Mar 12, 18, 2:46 pm
Last edit by: N515CR
This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF plans for retrofitting the long-haul fleet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below
Last update on 9 NOV 2023
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
B77W
Version with P (19 planes out of 43 77W): 19/19 completed (F-GSQA, F-GSQB, F-GSQC, F-GSQF, F-GSQG, F-GSQH, F-GSQI, F-GSQJ, F-GSQK, F-GSQL, F-GSQM, F-GSQU, F-GSQV, F-GSQY, F-GZNA, F-GZNB, F-GZNC, F-GZND, F-GZNE)Last update on 9 NOV 2023
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
B77W
- They are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat).
- Seating config: F4C58W28Y206
COI version (14J) (12 planes out of 43 B77W): all retrofitted (F-GSQO, F-GSQP, F-GSQT, F-GSQX, F-GZNG. F-GSQS, F-GZNF, F-GSQR, F-GSQN, F-GZNO, F-GZNL and F-GZNN).
- The J seat is Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config is 1-2-1 and total 14J.
- The W seat is the same as in the B789.
- Seating config: C14W32Y422
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 10/12 completed
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and are projected to finish by the end of 2023 per AF and other sources.
- Retrofit completed : F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, F-GZNH
- Aircraft in retrofit: none
- Aircraft yet to be converted: F-GSQD, F-GSQE
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
A343
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 10/12 completed
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and are projected to finish by the end of 2023 per AF and other sources.
- Retrofit completed : F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, F-GZNH
- Aircraft in retrofit: none
- Aircraft yet to be converted: F-GSQD, F-GSQE
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
- More info on A332 retrofit can be found in this thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-retrofit.html
- Since October 2020, all aircraft have the new cabin.All retired per ch-aviation.
A359
- Overall, AF will have 38 A359. 22 planes have been delivered as of 22/09/2023:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima, similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- All the A359 ordered for both AF & KL are finally going to AF (while KL will receive all the B789 remaining to be delivered on the AF sub-order).
- As per an information post by frausflyer , the 20th A350 (likely F-HTYT) to be delivered to AF will have a P cabin. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33283076-post467.html. However, this eventually did not happen, and F-HTYT has the same cabin as the 19 aircraft that preceded it.
Second batch (4/18): F-HUVA/B/C/D
- The 21st A359 (F-HUVA) has the new 48J cabin with small differences compared to the B77W one. According to Aerolopa, it and 17 A350s to follow will not have P. The configuration will be C48W32Y212 (vs. C34W24Y266 for previously delivered A350s)
All A380 will leave the fleet by 2022 and so, will not be retrofitted with new seats. F-HPJB is the 1st to leave the fleet : it has been returned to the lessor in January 2020.
All retired June 26 2020 due to COVID-19.
updated information about new J seats deployments and other information
Jul 2, 18, 11:00 am
#76
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 482
Does anyone have any idea about how often they change a flight that is scheduled to have the new seats to the old configuration for flights that fly out of LAX specifically?
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
Jul 2, 18, 3:51 pm
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,259
Does anyone have any idea about how often they change a flight that is scheduled to have the new seats to the old configuration for flights that fly out of LAX specifically?
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
Jul 2, 18, 5:46 pm
#78
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 21
Jul 3, 18, 11:16 am
#79
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 482
twice last year i got the plane changed 2/3 months before the flight from BEST to non BEST seats. The plane change only occured on 2 or 3 days during.i guess i just got unlucky.
Jul 3, 18, 12:10 pm
#80
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: SJC / SFO
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Bonvoy Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 741
Jul 3, 18, 3:44 pm
#81
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 482
Jul 20, 18, 2:03 am
#82
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Marriott LTT+Amb., BA GGL, Flying Blue LTP, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 21
Does anyone have any idea about how often they change a flight that is scheduled to have the new seats to the old configuration for flights that fly out of LAX specifically?
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
I've been reading a lot of posts around here talking about those changes happening and it's making me think I'd be better off choosing another airline.
In november 2014 (a long time ago, I recon) I did book a trip from Paris to JFK with AF new Bz seats. On both legs (From Paris and from JFK), they "changed" the plane 2 hours before takeoff. After research on the web, I discovered that they probably knew month in advance there would be a plane changed - They had only one retrofit plane and they were selling it on many different routes. Anyway, this convinced me to wait the whole fleet to be retrofited to book BZ with AF on longhaul flights. Now you'll probably be more lucky than I was.
Jul 20, 18, 2:59 am
#83
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,715
I don't trust them anymore.
In november 2014 (a long time ago, I recon) I did book a trip from Paris to JFK with AF new Bz seats. On both legs (From Paris and from JFK), they "changed" the plane 2 hours before takeoff. After research on the web, I discovered that they probably knew month in advance there would be a plane changed - They had only one retrofit plane and they were selling it on many different routes. Anyway, this convinced me to wait the whole fleet to be retrofited to book BZ with AF on longhaul flights. Now you'll probably be more lucky than I was.
In november 2014 (a long time ago, I recon) I did book a trip from Paris to JFK with AF new Bz seats. On both legs (From Paris and from JFK), they "changed" the plane 2 hours before takeoff. After research on the web, I discovered that they probably knew month in advance there would be a plane changed - They had only one retrofit plane and they were selling it on many different routes. Anyway, this convinced me to wait the whole fleet to be retrofited to book BZ with AF on longhaul flights. Now you'll probably be more lucky than I was.
Now things are simple:
- if it's a 777-200ER - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 772 fleet)
- if it's a 777-300ER with First Class cabin - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 77W with P fleet)
- if it's a 787-900 - it's new business class (all 789s were delivered with new J seat)
- if it's any other plane - it's old business class
There are routes where they make changes for given periods of time, and they do indeed know months in advance. For instance AF 008 during the summer months sees a 789 instead of a 77W (not a problem in this case, as both have the new J seats). But when they do know, they'll put that in the schedules and you'll know about it.
Refusing to fly AF in 2018 because you have had a plane substitution in 2014 is a bit like refusing to take the train because you don't like the smell of steam locomotives. Things do evolve.
Jul 21, 18, 4:36 am
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,246
I fully agree.
But if you book for leisure two or three months ahead, you do run the risk of an aircraft schedule change.
Loads in J/Y can also be a factor for ac substitution some weeks or even days ahead.
With roughly half the fleet with old seats, the risk is not high but not negligible and too much for me.
But if you book for leisure two or three months ahead, you do run the risk of an aircraft schedule change.
Loads in J/Y can also be a factor for ac substitution some weeks or even days ahead.
With roughly half the fleet with old seats, the risk is not high but not negligible and too much for me.
Jul 21, 18, 5:37 am
#85
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Flying blue LTP Ultimate, SPG platinum, Hertz Platinum, Sixt Platinum
Posts: 186
You do realise that your experience from 2014 is ridiculously irrelevant for what is happening in 2018? In 2014 they were in the middle of the refurbishment programme, where for any given variant of the 777 you could have had the new or the old J seat.
Now things are simple:
There are routes where they make changes for given periods of time, and they do indeed know months in advance. For instance AF 008 during the summer months sees a 789 instead of a 77W (not a problem in this case, as both have the new J seats). But when they do know, they'll put that in the schedules and you'll know about it.
Refusing to fly AF in 2018 because you have had a plane substitution in 2014 is a bit like refusing to take the train because you don't like the smell of steam locomotives. Things do evolve.
Now things are simple:
- if it's a 777-200ER - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 772 fleet)
- if it's a 777-300ER with First Class cabin - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 77W with P fleet)
- if it's a 787-900 - it's new business class (all 789s were delivered with new J seat)
- if it's any other plane - it's old business class
There are routes where they make changes for given periods of time, and they do indeed know months in advance. For instance AF 008 during the summer months sees a 789 instead of a 77W (not a problem in this case, as both have the new J seats). But when they do know, they'll put that in the schedules and you'll know about it.
Refusing to fly AF in 2018 because you have had a plane substitution in 2014 is a bit like refusing to take the train because you don't like the smell of steam locomotives. Things do evolve.
Recently I moved 2 AF trips in P for Emirates since the planes were changed for an old cabin ones with no P. I was notified over a month before departure.
One weakness of AF is indeed that at time of booking you don't know for sure what cabin you will be flying in. The price remains the same but the level of comfort is significantly different.
This cabin upgrade program has been lasting forever and it is annoying to have no consistency on the level of comfort. My opinion: either you execute a plan or you dont. But not stop half way.
Last point, I flew 777 COI in April and it was the old cabin. Are you saying they all have been upgraded now?
Cheers.
Jul 21, 18, 9:01 am
#86
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,020
Recently I moved 2 AF trips in P for Emirates since the planes were changed for an old cabin ones with no P. I was notified over a month before departure.
One weakness of AF is indeed that at time of booking you don't know for sure what cabin you will be flying in. The price remains the same but the level of comfort is significantly different.
This cabin upgrade program has been lasting forever and it is annoying to have no consistency on the level of comfort. My opinion: either you execute a plan or you don’t. But not stop half way.
One weakness of AF is indeed that at time of booking you don't know for sure what cabin you will be flying in. The price remains the same but the level of comfort is significantly different.
This cabin upgrade program has been lasting forever and it is annoying to have no consistency on the level of comfort. My opinion: either you execute a plan or you don’t. But not stop half way.
Last point, I flew 777 COI in April and it was the old cabin. Are you saying they all have been upgraded now?
Last edited by CyBeR; Jul 21, 18 at 11:44 am
Jul 22, 18, 5:04 am
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,246
Recently I moved 2 AF trips in P for Emirates since the planes were changed for an old cabin ones with no P. I was notified over a month before departure.
One weakness of AF is indeed that at time of booking you don't know for sure what cabin you will be flying in. The price remains the same but the level of comfort is significantly different.
This cabin upgrade program has been lasting forever and it is annoying to have no consistency on the level of comfort. My opinion: either you execute a plan or you dont. But not stop half way.
Last point, I flew 777 COI in April and it was the old cabin. Are you saying they all have been upgraded now?
Cheers.
One weakness of AF is indeed that at time of booking you don't know for sure what cabin you will be flying in. The price remains the same but the level of comfort is significantly different.
This cabin upgrade program has been lasting forever and it is annoying to have no consistency on the level of comfort. My opinion: either you execute a plan or you dont. But not stop half way.
Last point, I flew 777 COI in April and it was the old cabin. Are you saying they all have been upgraded now?
Cheers.
Jul 22, 18, 3:32 pm
#88
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris, France
Programs: El Al Matmid, Air France Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 2,291
I remember that in 2016, the Loisirs 777s had either the Panasonic IFE system or the BEST IFE in Y, except F-GSQD which still had the antiquated IFE with very small PTVs. Is it still the case, or has GSQD finally got new IFE in Y?
