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updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

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Old Mar 21, 18, 10:39 am   -   Wikipost
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This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF plans for retrofitting the long-haul flet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below

Last update on March 12, 2018

B772
All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). 25 planes

B77W
- version with P : they are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). 19 planes out of 43 77W.
- COI version (14J) : their retrofit was officially announced by AF during summer 2017. The seat will be a Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config will be 1-2-1 and will remain at 14J. Planning : start around beginning 2019, end around end 2020. UPDATE: 09/2019 to end 2020. Other new information: the W seat will be changed and will be the same as in the B789.
- rest of the 77W : we are talking here about the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J). They will be retrofitted but after all other planes. The study has just started and AF will not make the final choice of the seat before some years, depending on new seats models which will be available at the time of the choice. Planning : around 2022-2023. UPDATE : pre-choice studies still on-going. Choice will be made around June/July 2018.

B789
Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation). 5 planes.

A332
It was already announced that they will be retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. AF said that the seat will be very nice with storage compartments and a proper removable divider to ensure privacy. Also, the W seats will be replaced by the same as in the B789. Planning : from beginning 2018 to 2019. UPDATE : delayed to dec 2018 - feb 2020. 15 planes

A343
These are old planes and AF still had 6 in operation by end-2017. They have NEV4. Some of these planes are transferred to JOON. It seems that they will keep the NEV4 in J with new Y and W seats. They should be replaced by A350 from 2019.

A350
Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima , similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.
Other new information: the W seat will be a Recaro recliner seat.

A388
The choice of the J seat is not made yet. UPDATE: Choice is scheduled for June 2018. 10 planes
The P cabin will finally remain on the lower deck.There will be 2 or 3 rows of P. The future P will be very similar as the B77W one (curtains, etc) but likely with some significant differences (options are currently studied. Choice will be done according to the feasibility / cost. It is too early to make any statement about the final configuration). Also there might be new seats available on the market at the time, so they will make the decision based on what will be available at the time of the choice, but they will keep all main aspects of the 77W P seat which has made its success.

Planning : start beginning 2020 until 2022. UPDATE : 10/2020 to 2022.

New W seat for A388 : choice not made yet.

JOON
The A340 going to JOON will keep the NEV4 seats for J, but will have new W and Y seats. The IFE will be brand new, including in J NEV4. Joon is starting long-haul ops end of March, so the 1st retrofitted A340 will be in service soon
The A350 for JOON will have new J seats (of course), and will be different from the AF mainline ones.
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Old Aug 13, 17, 8:45 pm
  #16  
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The A340 has started to leave AF fleet progressively since 2 years, so there is no plan to renovate the seats. Recently, in link with Joon launch, it's been announced that Joon will get some of those old A340 and will have new seats in Y and W but will keep the current J seat (although with new IFE).

So, A340 is indeed NEV4, which is a slightly angled seat. Never had any problem to sleep in. In this plane the config is 2-2-2.
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Old Aug 14, 17, 3:03 am
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Originally Posted by mlin32 View Post
Merci ! Good to know; wished AF moved faster but like you said.....those damn accountants....
It's not the accountant.
AF is extremely short ton cash and the debt level is worrisome and has to be reduced.

When the cash transaction with DL/VS/MU will close, AF will have cash available. Hopefuly that will relax the budget constraint. Whether they are ready to take two planes out of service simultaneously (like other airlines did) is another question.

AND MANY THANKS Goldorak.
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Old Aug 14, 17, 3:11 am
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"NEV4" seats are pretty much flat, just not completely horizontal, and I echo @Goldorak comment, never had any troubles sleeping in either NEV4 or even the older NEV3s
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Old Aug 14, 17, 4:39 am
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Originally Posted by swiss_global View Post
Any information about AF 343 J seating today, i.e. in 2017? FYI, I'm quite slim but very tall (2m) ...
May I add that I'm also slim and almost 2m tall. Whilst NEV4 is indeed just not really flat, I sleep very well on it. In my experience they provide a more comfortable sleep for tall people than for example SQ,s fabled J seat. Having said that, they are underwhelming and outdated from a "lounging" point of view.
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Old Aug 14, 17, 4:56 am
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Is that really the proper place for the Nth discussion (N>50) of the benefits/disadvantages of NEV? Personally I dislike NEV4 with its 15+ degree angle, the restricted personal space, which should be a benefit of angled seats, the difficulty of climbing over neighbor when sitting in windows or middle seat.

Last edited by brunos; Aug 14, 17 at 5:06 am
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Old Aug 14, 17, 4:59 am
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Thanks a lot, Goldorak, Ditto and zembla. That's the information I needed, much appreciated.
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Old Aug 14, 17, 2:43 pm
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post

Dear FTers

...
I hope you will find those information useful.
The best news: this post. Thanks Goldorak!

The good news: the fact that most planes will have a J class better than NEV.

The bad news, but expected: it takes them ridiculously long to reconfigure their fleet. Is there any airline that has taken longer? It speaks volumes abou the real financial strength of AFKL, it's actually not great, they don't even have money to reconfigure their fleet.

The other bad news, also expected: there is no aircraft type in reconfiguration right now. Time wasted.

The bad news, which comes as a suprise: 2-2-2 on the A330?? Ouch! And I don't get that "economic viability of the routes where the A330 flies" argument. If a route cannot be operated profitably by AF mainline, why doesn't FMA France Millenials Airlines (aka JOON) pick it up? I thought that is why Air Sillyname was created?? In any case, if they pull the A330 from destinations like New York, Chicago and Rio de Janeiro and leave it to Africa (shorter flight times, less competition), then fair enough. Very selfish, I know

Originally Posted by swiss_global View Post
I'm not flying AF usually, so apologies if I'm asking what everybody knows ...

I struggle to find information about J class on the A340-300. This bird is not listed in this thread and the latest information I can find is about "NEV4" being installed ... Now, I don't know what NEV4 is, but it seems to be an old angled flat seat, right? If so, are there any plans for replacing them? I've not flown on an angled flat seat for certainly two or three years, but my memories are not really positive ...

Any information about AF 343 J seating today, i.e. in 2017? FYI, I'm quite slim but very tall (2m) ...
As far as I know all A340 have NEV4 seats.

Last edited by San Gottardo; Aug 14, 17 at 4:49 pm
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Old Aug 15, 17, 2:19 am
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Is that really the proper place for the Nth discussion (N>50) of the benefits/disadvantages of NEV? Personally I dislike NEV4 with its 15+ degree angle, the restricted personal space, which should be a benefit of angled seats, the difficulty of climbing over neighbor when sitting in windows or middle seat.
Yes it is time to bump N once more. I always have to add that DeltaOne 767 seat > NEV4
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Old Aug 21, 17, 1:05 pm
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Looks like SFO is getting more BEST seats!

I have a CDG - SFO flight this Dec and was booked on the 777-300 with 2-3-2 NEV4 seating. For the past year, I've been tracking the deployment schedule of the new cabins. Ultimately, I decided the nonstop over-rode other considerations and booked it. Enough people here said the NEV4 was fine for lounging and this wasn't an overnight.

Based on all the updates here about the 777-300 fleet retro-fit being done and the NEV4 configuration being assigned to SFO, my only chance to experience the new seats would be equipment substitution. Which didn't look like it happened often.

Yesterday, I went to check flights for next summer and noticed the additional summer flight was showing 777-200 with Best. Primary flight was the A380. But that's different than this past summer where they've used an A380 and a 777-300 with NEV4. I then checked my Dec flight and sure enough, our seat maps had been changed to 1-2-1 on a retro-fitted 777-300 with La Premiere.

I checked the 3 days before and after and they're all showing BEST. When I went back to check next summer, it showed 6 days a week in July with BEST config and just one day a week with NEV4.

I only had time to check the one week in Dec and the one week in July next year but certainly looks like they've deployed new config to SFO. At least for that time period.
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Old Aug 22, 17, 3:13 pm
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Originally Posted by th14 View Post
Looks like SFO is getting more BEST seats!

I have a CDG - SFO flight this Dec and was booked on the 777-300 with 2-3-2 NEV4 seating. For the past year, I've been tracking the deployment schedule of the new cabins. Ultimately, I decided the nonstop over-rode other considerations and booked it. Enough people here said the NEV4 was fine for lounging and this wasn't an overnight.

Based on all the updates here about the 777-300 fleet retro-fit being done and the NEV4 configuration being assigned to SFO, my only chance to experience the new seats would be equipment substitution. Which didn't look like it happened often.

Yesterday, I went to check flights for next summer and noticed the additional summer flight was showing 777-200 with Best. Primary flight was the A380. But that's different than this past summer where they've used an A380 and a 777-300 with NEV4. I then checked my Dec flight and sure enough, our seat maps had been changed to 1-2-1 on a retro-fitted 777-300 with La Premiere.

I checked the 3 days before and after and they're all showing BEST. When I went back to check next summer, it showed 6 days a week in July with BEST config and just one day a week with NEV4.

I only had time to check the one week in Dec and the one week in July next year but certainly looks like they've deployed new config to SFO. At least for that time period.
I went ahead and checked the winter schedule and indeed BEST is also scheduled 6 days a week with NEV on a rolling basis (one week Thursday, week after Friday, etc etc). P is also bookable on days BEST is operating during winter schedule.
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Old Aug 22, 17, 3:58 pm
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Quick question about the 77Ws "loisir" remaining in NEV 4: Have these been all retrofitted in Y?

I have a few flights across the pond in Y to ATL / MIA and I would choose the AF flights (currently NEV4 configuration in J) if I know they have the new seats in Y.
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Old Aug 22, 17, 7:25 pm
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Am I the only one who thinks the J seat for the A350 is worse than the Zodiac Cirrus?

I am suprised by how they are going for a lower footprint/more cramped seat for the A350, while keeping the 777 and 789 fleet with the better product.


Any idea if the A350 shall be deployed to less premium markets?
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Old Aug 23, 17, 2:51 am
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Originally Posted by SDQBound View Post
Quick question about the 77Ws "loisir" remaining in NEV 4: Have these been all retrofitted in Y?

I have a few flights across the pond in Y to ATL / MIA and I would choose the AF flights (currently NEV4 configuration in J) if I know they have the new seats in Y.
At least, half of those 12 planes have the BEST Y seat. Those are the 77W recently delivered to AF since 2015 (F-GZNP/Q/R/S/T/U). For the 6 others, I think no.

Originally Posted by GRUflyer View Post
Am I the only one who thinks the J seat for the A350 is worse than the Zodiac Cirrus?
I am suprised by how they are going for a lower footprint/more cramped seat for the A350, while keeping the 777 and 789 fleet with the better product.
Any idea if the A350 shall be deployed to less premium markets?
At that stage, without having seen the product, it's hard to make any comment. And as to guess where they will fly in some years from now, it's absolutely impossible to predict.

Last edited by Goldorak; Aug 23, 17 at 11:31 am
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Old Aug 23, 17, 6:54 am
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Originally Posted by GRUflyer View Post
Am I the only one who thinks the J seat for the A350 is worse than the Zodiac Cirrus?

I am suprised by how they are going for a lower footprint/more cramped seat for the A350, while keeping the 777 and 789 fleet with the better product.


Any idea if the A350 shall be deployed to less premium markets?
or to JOON
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Old Aug 25, 17, 1:18 pm
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Slightly OT, but QF has announced today a retrofit plan for their 12 A388. It seems complicated too as they will start only Q2-2019, but it will be finished end 2020.
https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/me...or-a380-fleet/
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