Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air France, KLM, and Other Partners | Flying Blue > Air France Frequence Plus
Reload this Page > updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

Reply

Old Aug 11, 17, 7:52 am
  #1
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 10,280
Smile updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

Dear FTers
We recently had a lot of discussions in other threads about J cabin retrofits for AF fleet (seat types, planning). I had the opportunity to discuss recently with a person working at AF on the technical aspects of the seat choice and deployment and would like to share with you some information. I first want to thank this person for the time he spent with me, and all the information he gave me about the cabins, seats, constraints and opportunities . I want also to precise that, prior to post this on FT, I validated with AF that I was allowed to disclose those information here. So here is a summary of the current and future cabin equipments and retrofit + tentative planning.

B772
All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat)

B77W
- version with P : they are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat).
- COI version (14J) : their retrofit was officially announced last week by AF. The seat will be a Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config will be 1-2-1 and will remain at 14J. Planning : start around beginning 2019, end around end 2020.
- rest of the 77W : we are talking here about the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J). You likely know that some of those planes were delivered very recently with NEV4, while AF was already retrofitting other B777 with BEST and we were all very surprised of this. The reason was that Zodiac had many manufacturing problems and delivery delays at that period, and AF needed absolutely those new planes, hence the decision to install NEV4. They will be retrofitted but after all other planes. The study has just started and AF will not make the final choice of the seat before some years, depending on new seats models which will be available at the time of te choice. Planning : around 2022-2023.

B789
Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation)

A332
It was already announced that they will be retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. AF said that the seat will be very nice with storage compartments and a proper removable divider to ensure privacy. Planning : from beginning 2018 to 2019. Also, the W seats will be replaced by the same as in the B789.

I questioned the choice of the 2-2-2 config. The answer was that it was needed for the economical viability of the flights to be operated by the 332, due to the cabin sizes and galley locations.

A350
Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima , similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.

A388
You know that, for us on FT but for pax in general, this plane should have a high priority for the retrofit as this is the one in which we have the oldest and completely outdated NEV3 J seat (on 6 planes, the 4 others having NEV4). Unfortunately, this plane is very complicated to retrofit technically. The choice of the J seat is not made yet, they just started to work on it.

The P cabin will finally remain on the lower deck (it was rumored at one point that P would move to UD).There will be 2 or 3 rows of P. The future P will be very similar as the B77W one (curtains, etc) but likely with some significant differences (options are currently studied. Choice will be done according to the feasibility / cost. It is too early to make any statement about the final configuration). Also there might be new seats available on the market at the time, so they will make the decision based on what will be available at the time of the choice, but they will keep all main aspects of the 77W P seat which has made its success.

Planning : start beginning 2020 until 2022.

For the W seat in the A380, B777 and future planes, either they will choose the same seat as in the 789 or they may chose a recliner-type seat as SQ, LH, etc. Everything is open

JOON
I asked also questions about JOON. I can confirm that JOON will have 3 cabins (J, W and Y) - there were recently questions about J or no J, now we know for sure.

The A340 going to JOON will keep the NEV4 seats for J, but will have new W and Y seats. The IFE will be brand new, including in J NEV4.

The A350 for JOON will have new J seats (of course), and will be different from the AF mainline ones.



I, of course, expressed the customer concern about the very long time it takes for AF to retrofit the fleet and the inconsistency of products/configurations for the J cabins. AF is fully aware of this and admits that they could not go faster due mostly to not enough budget available. But they see this long timing also as an opportunity as they can choose newly developed seats and avoid the trap to finish a complete fleet retrofit with a single seat type but somewhat outdated at the end of the project.

I hope you will find those information useful.
Zembla, KL803, SDQBound and 11 others like this.

Last edited by Goldorak; Aug 19, 17 at 3:22 pm
Goldorak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:08 am
  #2
formerly B7e7US
SPG Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Paris / Santo Domingo
Programs: AA PLT, DL PLT,SPG, Priority Pass, Accor LeClub Gold, Thalys Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Other shiny cards
Posts: 3,254
Wow! Thanks a lot for taking your time to post this valuable information.


Some comments:
- By 2020 we will have too many different J products: NEV3/NEV4 - BEST - Stelia Equinox - Zodiac Optima. While I understand that every airplane's CASM as well as other revenue factors are different, having such an inconsistent J product (and especially on market with different types of equipment) will not be appreciated by many customers.

- You mentioned that the 789 is delivered with no BEST cabins. I was under the impression that the 789s had BEST

- Pushing the newest 77Ws to the end of the queue means that by 2021 - 2022 these planes might get one of the existing versions (BEST will be the oldest J configuration by then) or even a more economical yet more appealing seat type. Rather than focusing on getting a consistent product, this could lead to a new configuration being introduced and therefore keeping the vicious circle of inconsistent J configuration in the 77Ws

Last edited by SDQBound; Aug 11, 17 at 8:24 am
SDQBound is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:31 am
  #3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, AZ, BA Silver: EY
Posts: 21,450
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
B772
All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat)


B789
Direct deliveries with no BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation)
sorry, but what does the "B789" statement above mean?

I included the B772 line to show that apparently "Best cabins" = "Zodiac Cirrus seat". So, if B789 is delivered without these...what is it delivered with???

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Just saw that SDQBound was similarly perplexed by that statement!!!
irishguy28 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:37 am
  #4
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Le Cclub Accorhotels Plat, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 1,848
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
(...) For the W seat in the A380, B777 and future planes, either they will choose the same seat as in the 789 (...)

I hope you will find those information useful.
Very useful indeed. Thank you.

Can you remind us what the W seat will be on the 789?

P.S. Ooooops. The answer is in AF website: shell as usual. I was confused with another info I read here about reclining seats for new planes.

Last edited by carnarvon; Aug 11, 17 at 9:07 am Reason: The answer is in AF website
carnarvon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:39 am
  #5
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Programs: FB Plat for Life, UAMP, BAEC, Le Cclub Accorhotels Plat, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 1,848
Originally Posted by SDQBound View Post
(...) - You mentioned that the 789 is delivered with no BEST cabins. I was under the impression that the 789s had BEST (...)
I would bet for a typo.
carnarvon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:45 am
  #6
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 10,280
Originally Posted by SDQBound View Post
You mentioned that the 789 is delivered with no BEST cabins. I was under the impression that the 789s had BEST
Sorry it was a typo. Corrected.
Goldorak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 9:11 am
  #7
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 10,280
Originally Posted by carnarvon View Post
Can you remind us what the W seat will be on the 789?
It's a revamped version of the W seat we know. I only tested it for 5 min during one of the inaugural 789 flights and I think they did well this time as the seat back is "reclining more" making it possible to sleep in (I think).
Goldorak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 9:32 am
  #8
Ambassador, Alitalia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Warsaw
Programs: AF-KL P | SK D | LH FTL | Accor G | Marriott® S | Amex® G
Posts: 2,526
Merci Goldorāk

G
AlicorporateUK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 2:31 pm
  #9
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hands of Fate
Programs: MR PE, DL DM (sigh), HTZ PC, SPG PPG, Le Club Silver (maybe?), 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 4,191
Originally Posted by SDQBound View Post
- By 2020 we will have too many different J products: NEV3/NEV4 - BEST - Stelia Equinox - Zodiac Optima. While I understand that every airplane's CASM as well as other revenue factors are different, having such an inconsistent J product (and especially on market with different types of equipment) will not be appreciated by many customers.
I'm not sure how big of an issue that really is. DL already operates this way... The 757s, 767s, 777s, A330s, and A350s all have different seat types, with only the soon to be retired 747s sharing with the A330. As long as it's lie flat with direct aisle access, I suspect most people are reasonably satisfied. (Each seat type has its own pros and cons of course, I'm just speaking in the aggregate.)

I'd be more worried about the AF A330 going 2-2-2 as a product inconsistency (along with the very lengthy timeframe to do the mods).
bennos is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 2:39 pm
  #10
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: PTY
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, United Premier Silver, Connect Miles Presidential Plat, Marriott Plat, SPG Plat
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
It's a revamped version of the W seat we know. I only tested it for 5 min during one of the inaugural 789 flights and I think they did well this time as the seat back is "reclining more" making it possible to sleep in (I think).
Any plans of expanding this seat to the remaining long haul fleet?

As much as I am a fan of W on day trips, I am getting increasingly annoyed about the seat for overnight flights.
Of late I have ignored my bank statements on a few occasions and booked J instead...
Milkman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 2:55 pm
  #11
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CLT
Programs: Miles & More, AF/KLM Flying Blue, Finnair Plus
Posts: 146
Merci ! Good to know; wished AF moved faster but like you said.....those damn accountants....
mlin32 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:27 pm
  #12
Original Poster
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Accor 25+ Badge
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 10,280
Originally Posted by Milkman View Post
Any plans of expanding this seat to the remaining long haul fleet?
Yes, read above
Goldorak is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 11, 17, 8:56 pm
  #13
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: PTY
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, United Premier Silver, Connect Miles Presidential Plat, Marriott Plat, SPG Plat
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
Yes, read above
Sorry, had missed that part. Good news! Cheers!
Milkman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 17, 3:38 pm
  #14
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: PAR/BIA
Programs: FB Platinum, BAEC Silver, Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by bennos View Post
I'm not sure how big of an issue that really is. DL already operates this way... The 757s, 767s, 777s, A330s, and A350s all have different seat types, with only the soon to be retired 747s sharing with the A330. As long as it's lie flat with direct aisle access, I suspect most people are reasonably satisfied. (Each seat type has its own pros and cons of course, I'm just speaking in the aggregate.)

I'd be more worried about the AF A330 going 2-2-2 as a product inconsistency (along with the very lengthy timeframe to do the mods).
I agree with you, if AF keeps a 1-2-1 lieflat with direct aisle access i think (most) people will be satisfied, and the argument that it enables them to use the newest on the market is understandable, and more so if it enables them to keep upgrading to better tech over different cycles (etc if/when they would want to redo 777 BEST)
joyu12 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 13, 17, 7:59 pm
  #15
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Zurich
Programs: LH/LX Sen, was SQ QPP4, BA GGL, TK*G EL, AB G, HHonors D, SPG G, Hyatt D
Posts: 1,197
I'm not flying AF usually, so apologies if I'm asking what everybody knows ...

I struggle to find information about J class on the A340-300. This bird is not listed in this thread and the latest information I can find is about "NEV4" being installed ... Now, I don't know what NEV4 is, but it seems to be an old angled flat seat, right? If so, are there any plans for replacing them? I've not flown on an angled flat seat for certainly two or three years, but my memories are not really positive ...

Any information about AF 343 J seating today, i.e. in 2017? FYI, I'm quite slim but very tall (2m) ...
swiss_global is offline  
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 5:26 pm.

Home - News - Forum - Hotel Reviews - Glossary - Contact Us - Airport Code Lookup - Terms of Use - Privacy Policy - Cookie Policy - Advertise on FlyerTalk - Archive - Top

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by Flyertalk.com. Copyright © 2017 FlyerTalk.com. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.