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updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

Old Mar 12, 2018, 2:46 pm
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This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF plans for retrofitting the long-haul fleet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below

Last update on 22 FEB 2024

B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
- Seating config 1: C28W32Y268
- Seating config 2: C28W24Y260
- Seating config 3: C40W32Y216

B77W
Version with P (19 planes out of 43 77W): 19/19 completed (F-GSQA, F-GSQB, F-GSQC, F-GSQF, F-GSQG, F-GSQH, F-GSQI, F-GSQJ, F-GSQK, F-GSQL, F-GSQM, F-GSQU, F-GSQV, F-GSQY, F-GZNA, F-GZNB, F-GZNC, F-GZND, and F-GZNE)
- They are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat).
- Seating config: F4C58W28Y206

COI version (14J) (12 planes out of 43 B77W): all retrofitted (F-GSQO, F-GSQP, F-GSQT, F-GSQX, F-GZNG. F-GSQS, F-GZNF, F-GSQR, F-GSQN, F-GZNO, F-GZNL and F-GZNN).
- The J seat is Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config is 1-2-1 and total 14J.
- The W seat is the same as in the B789.
- Seating config: C14W32Y422

Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 10/12 completed (F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ, and F-GZNH)
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and are projected to finish by the end of 2023 per AF and other sources.
- Aircraft in retrofit: none
- Aircraft yet to be converted: F-GSQD, F-GSQE (arr. HHN 22 FEB 2024, TBD on scope of visit)
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
- Old config: C42W24Y315

B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
- Seating config: C30W21Y228

A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
- More info on A332 retrofit can be found in this thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-retrofit.html
- Since October 2020, all aircraft have the new cabin.
- Seating config: C36W21Y167

A343
Update 01/2020: Only 4 planes remaining (in Joon livery & interiors : F-GLZK/N/O/P). They will leave the fleet between 03/3020 and end 2021.
All retired per ch-aviation.


A359
- Overall, AF will have 38 A359. 22 planes have been delivered as of 22/09/2023:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima, similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- All the A359 ordered for both AF & KL are finally going to AF (while KL will receive all the B789 remaining to be delivered on the AF sub-order).
- As per an information post by frausflyer , the 20th A350 (likely F-HTYT) to be delivered to AF will have a P cabin. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33283076-post467.html. However, this eventually did not happen, and F-HTYT has the same cabin as the 19 aircraft that preceded it.
- Seating config: C34W24Y266

Second batch (7/18): F-HUVA/B/C/D/E/F/G
- The 21st A359 (F-HUVA) has the new 48J cabin with small differences compared to the B77W one. According to Aerolopa, it and 17 A350s to follow will not have P.
- Seating config: C48W32Y212

A388
All A380 will leave the fleet by 2022 and so, will not be retrofitted with new seats. F-HPJB is the 1st to leave the fleet : it has been returned to the lessor in January 2020.
All retired June 26 2020 due to COVID-19.


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updated information about new J seats deployments and other information

Old May 11, 2019, 4:03 am
  #151  
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Thanks Tomauk ! You win the prize for the 1st report of the new A332 J seat
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Old May 11, 2019, 9:21 am
  #152  
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I have edited the wiki with a few updates about A343/Joon and new deliveries of B787 + calendar of delivery of 3 A359 for 2019.
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Old May 11, 2019, 3:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
I have edited the wiki with a few updates about A343/Joon and new deliveries of B787 + calendar of delivery of 3 A359 for 2019.
thanks for the update Goldorak.
It is nice to see that AF finally continues to get new 787s. I read a few weeks ago that AF will only have 7 787s in their fleet and that the remaining 787s would go to KLM: https://thetravelersclub.boardingare...o-neerlandais/

Last edited by LY777; May 12, 2019 at 12:00 am
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Old May 12, 2019, 8:51 am
  #154  
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Originally Posted by LY777


thanks for the update Goldorak.
It is nice to see that AF finally continues to get new 787s. I read a few weeks ago that AF will only have 7 787s in their fleet and that the remaining 787s would go to KLM: https://thetravelersclub.boardingare...o-neerlandais/

thanks for sharing the link. In fact this article from early April is not in contradiction with what I wrote because at the end it says :
”Note* : Pour l’heure Air France dtient 7 Boeing 787-9 en flotte et s’apprte recevoir d’autres Dreamliner, dj prts tre livrs.” So the recent delivery and the coming one are probably in this context and will be the last ones to be delivered to AF.

Last edited by Goldorak; May 12, 2019 at 9:24 am
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Old May 13, 2019, 8:24 am
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Goldorak
Airlineroutes just published that the A350 will be used on CDG-BKO-ABJ from 23 SEP 2019 with the seatmap of the J cabin showing staggered seats.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...from-sep-2019/
Config is J24 W24 Y266
It seems that the recently-announced plan to launch the A350 on CDG-BKO-ABJ is already changed for YYZ instead. And the African route mentioned will have B787. Further changes remain possible...
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...as-of-10may19/
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 5:39 am
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Will be flying CDG-CPT in October, what can I expect in J? Would it be a "Joon" 340-300 (re)converted back to AF livery? NEV4 seat + decent IFE?
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Old Jun 14, 2019, 3:59 pm
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Originally Posted by Ditto
Will be flying CDG-CPT in October, what can I expect in J? Would it be a "Joon" 340-300 (re)converted back to AF livery? NEV4 seat + decent IFE?
Yes for all except that I am not sure it will be back to AF livery (but this has no importance). AF crew and service/catering.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 10:11 am
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
You do realise that your experience from 2014 is ridiculously irrelevant for what is happening in 2018? In 2014 they were in the middle of the refurbishment programme, where for any given variant of the 777 you could have had the new or the old J seat.

Now things are simple:
  • if it's a 777-200ER - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 772 fleet)
  • if it's a 777-300ER with First Class cabin - it's new business class (there are no more old business seats in the 77W with P fleet)
  • if it's a 787-900 - it's new business class (all 789s were delivered with new J seat)
  • if it's any other plane - it's old business class
Yes, there *can* be last minute substitutions in case a plane has a technical problem, is delayed in its rotation. But typically that substitution would happen for a plane of the same type. It's very unlikely they'll substitute a flight that was planned with a First Class cabin (=new Business seat) by a plane that has no First Class (=and thus old Business seat).

There are routes where they make changes for given periods of time, and they do indeed know months in advance. For instance AF 008 during the summer months sees a 789 instead of a 77W (not a problem in this case, as both have the new J seats). But when they do know, they'll put that in the schedules and you'll know about it.

Refusing to fly AF in 2018 because you have had a plane substitution in 2014 is a bit like refusing to take the train because you don't like the smell of steam locomotives. Things do evolve.
Thanks for making it simple for me!!

So, if a 777-300ER (which I believe is the same as a 77W) has J in a 2-3-2 configuration, it's angled flat seat? Specifically AF0099 from MIA-CDG on 5/15/20.

If I understand the updates correctly, there are no plans to further upgrade the remaining 77Ws.

I can get an Iberia award, tempted to do that even though it means a connection, to get the lie flats.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 11:17 am
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Yes, Busienss Class seats on those planes will be angled flat.

Miami is one of those destinations where many people go but which AF typically does not consider worthy of the lie-flat Business Class seats (yields too low). It does get A380s in winter (at least that was the case in previous winters) when yields are somewhat higher though, but that also only has angled-flat seats. It's untypical for a destination to from no Premiere to the largest Premiere cabin in the fleet, but MIA does have seasonal changes.

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Old Jun 23, 2019, 2:15 pm
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
Yes, Busienss Class seats on those planes will be angled flat.

Miami is one of those destinations where many people go but which AF typically does not consider worthy of the lie-flat Business Class seats (yields too low). It does get A380s in winter (at least that was the case in previous winters) when yields are somewhat higher though, but that also only has angled-flat seats. It's untypical for a destination to from no Premiere to the largest Premiere cabin in the fleet, but MIA does have seasonal changes.

Thanks! Will likely go IB in that case, even though it's a connection. Pity, as the trip was only 53k miles (but hefty fees) one way.
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Old Jun 23, 2019, 8:35 pm
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Originally Posted by beachfan
If I understand the updates correctly, there are no plans to further upgrade the remaining 77Ws.
There is a plan for the sub-fleet B77W in COI config. No very concrete plan for the rest of the B77W fleet (the ones with no P and non-COI), but I am 100% sure that they will be retrofitted, while it is very uncertain for the A380 fleet. See the wiki for more details.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 12:13 am
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Originally Posted by beachfan
Thanks! Will likely go IB in that case, even though it's a connection. Pity, as the trip was only 53k miles (but hefty fees) one way.
i boycott AF on the MIA route which benefits about old cabin style when it comes to J tickets I pay personally.
I can find some nice alternatives with LX or LH.
I do not like IB because of non reliable service. BA offers as well good prices in J with flat beds but I found the cabin to crowded .
AA with direct flights from CDG used to have flat beds in J.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 12:17 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak

There is a plan for the sub-fleet B77W in COI config. No very concrete plan for the rest of the B77W fleet (the ones with no P and non-COI), but I am 100% sure that they will be retrofitted, while it is very uncertain for the A380 fleet. See the wiki for more details.
indeed, the last comments from B Smith last week on the A380 retrofit were not so optimistic .
If they hold this configuration for 5 extra years, it will be extremely difficult to justify the high prices demanded in P for LAX which is permanently full .
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 7:46 am
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Originally Posted by Bullspread


i boycott AF on the MIA route which benefits about old cabin style when it comes to J tickets I pay personally.
I can find some nice alternatives with LX or LH.
I do not like IB because of non reliable service. BA offers as well good prices in J with flat beds but I found the cabin to crowded .
AA with direct flights from CDG used to have flat beds in J.
AA flies the route on its 772. Very pleasant seats, the same (more or less) as Air France BEST. The rest is of course the kind of stuff you get on US-based carriers: obsese and slightly over-familiaristic FAs, absolute rubbish food (make sure you eat at the Cathay lounge in Paris before boarding), very poor snack/in-between meals offering. Basically not a premium product, except for the seat.

Depending on what fare you find on AF, you may find that LX costs only marginally more or sometimes even less - in First. Which is a treat, despite it being back-tracking. But the transfer time in ZRH is quite short I believe and in CDG you can turn up quite late (unlike a departure from 2E on AF) so that you're actually not adding lots of time to the journey.

BA not only has the crowded cabin, it also has the horrible transfer experience in London.

Interesting what you say about IB. In the recent past I only flew them once on a trans-Atlantic flight so I have no data points about their reliability.
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Old Jun 24, 2019, 8:48 am
  #165  
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Originally Posted by San Gottardo
AA flies the route on its 772. Very pleasant seats, the same (more or less) as Air France BEST. The rest is of course the kind of stuff you get on US-based carriers: obsese and slightly over-familiaristic FAs, absolute rubbish food (make sure you eat at the Cathay lounge in Paris before boarding), very poor snack/in-between meals offering. Basically not a premium product, except for the seat.

Depending on what fare you find on AF, you may find that LX costs only marginally more or sometimes even less - in First. Which is a treat, despite it being back-tracking. But the transfer time in ZRH is quite short I believe and in CDG you can turn up quite late (unlike a departure from 2E on AF) so that you're actually not adding lots of time to the journey.

BA not only has the crowded cabin, it also has the horrible transfer experience in London.

Interesting what you say about IB. In the recent past I only flew them once on a trans-Atlantic flight so I have no data points about their reliability.
Just a little personal difference on BA to MIA. They use a lot of 747 and the upper deck window seats are just great.
Transfer in LHR T5 are indeed unpleasant. But if you get fastrack, the transfer should just be unpleasant, bad but not horrible. And the CX lounge in CDG is really nice and 2A a breeze.
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