Mar 12, 18, 1:46 pm
Last edit by: N515CR
This wikipost presents an updated summary of AF plans for retrofitting the long-haul fleet with new J (and W) seats. For more details, please refer to the thread below
Last update on 4 SEP 2023
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
B77W
Version with P (19 planes out of 43 77W): 19/19 completed (F-GSQA, F-GSQB, F-GSQC, F-GSQF, F-GSQG, F-GSQH, F-GSQI, F-GSQJ, F-GSQK, F-GSQL, F-GSQM, F-GSQU, F-GSQV, F-GSQY, F-GZNA, F-GZNB, F-GZNC, F-GZND, F-GZNE)Last update on 4 SEP 2023
B772
21 planes. All B772 are already retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat). A refit programme is underway to standardise the 772 fleet with a 28J 32W 268M configuration, with refits expected to be complete before summer 2024.
B77W
- They are already all retrofitted with the BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat).
- Seating config: F4C58W28Y206
COI version (14J) (12 planes out of 43 B77W): all retrofitted (F-GSQO, F-GSQP, F-GSQT, F-GSQX, F-GZNG. F-GSQS, F-GZNF, F-GSQR, F-GSQN, F-GZNO, F-GZNL and F-GZNN).
- The J seat is Zodiac Optima (same as chosen for the A350), similar to the UA Polaris seat. The config is 1-2-1 and total 14J.
- The W seat is the same as in the B789.
- Seating config: C14W32Y422
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 9/12 completed
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and are projected to finish by the end of 2023 per AF and other sources.
- Retrofit completed : F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ
- Aircraft in retrofit: F-GZNH
- Aircraft yet to be converted: F-GSQD & F-GSQE
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
A343
Remaining 77W (the 12 planes in NEV4 "loisirs" config (42J)): 9/12 completed
- The new seat will be a slightly improved version of the BEST seat, with a door for privacy.
- Retrofits started in March 2022 and are projected to finish by the end of 2023 per AF and other sources.
- Retrofit completed : F-GZNK, F-GZNP, F-GZNQ, F-GZNS, F-GZNT, F-GZNI, F-GZNR, F-GZNU, F-GZNJ
- Aircraft in retrofit: F-GZNH
- Aircraft yet to be converted: F-GSQD & F-GSQE
- Seating config: C48W48Y273
B789
- Direct deliveries with BEST cabins (Zodiac Cirrus seat, slightly smaller than the 777 one, due to fuselage width limitation).
- Ten planes have been delivered to AF (F-HRBA to F-HRBJ).
- AF initially ordered 15 B789, with the remaining to go to KL.
A332
- 15 planes. Retrofitted in 2-2-2 with the Stelia Equinoxe seat. A similar seat can be seen in the UX B787. Also, the W seats are the same as the B789.
- More info on A332 retrofit can be found in this thread: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-retrofit.html
- Since October 2020, all aircraft have the new cabin.All retired per ch-aviation.
A359
- Overall, AF will have 38 A359. 22 planes have been delivered as of 22/09/2023:
First batch (20): F-HTYA/B/C/D/E/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/N/O/P/Q/R/S/T
- Direct delivery with Zodiac Optima, similar to UA Polaris seat (see above B777 COI). Config 1-2-1.
- The W seat is a Recaro recliner seat.
- All the A359 ordered for both AF & KL are finally going to AF (while KL will receive all the B789 remaining to be delivered on the AF sub-order).
- As per an information post by frausflyer , the 20th A350 (likely F-HTYT) to be delivered to AF will have a P cabin. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33283076-post467.html. However, this eventually did not happen, and F-HTYT has the same cabin as the 19 aircraft that preceded it.
Second batch (18): F-HUVA/B
- The 21st A359 (F-HUVA) has the new 48J cabin with small differences compared to the B77W one. According to Aerolopa, it and 17 A350s to follow will not have P. The configuration will be C48W32Y212 (vs. C34W24Y266 for previously delivered A350s)
All A380 will leave the fleet by 2022 and so, will not be retrofitted with new seats. F-HPJB is the 1st to leave the fleet : it has been returned to the lessor in January 2020.
All retired June 26 2020 due to COVID-19.
updated information about new J seats deployments and other information
Jan 23, 20, 11:40 am
#211
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: SE England
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 636
If I understand correctly, now that the COI B77Ws are being updated to 1-2-1 J seat, that just leaves the current 12(?) B77Ws with the 6 rows of 2-3-2 J seats to be refurbished in the long haul fleet - excluding the A380s as they are on the way out. I recently flew CDG-BKK-CDG on a 2-3-2 J configuration, and whilst better than any Y seat, it was very dated. I guess these 12 B77Ws are used for cities that are not quite the premium financial cities of JFK, HKG, SIN, HND, PVG etc. and not the tourist heavy COI destinations. Are AF evaluating their options for these B77Ws now and will make upgrades after the COI fleet have been completed?
Jan 23, 20, 2:32 pm
#212
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,625
Thank you Goldorak
Just one question I have: you write that two 777-300ERs will receive Premiere seats to compensate for the departure of the first A380. Given that there are nine A388s in the fleet that will all leave. If for every A388 leaving the fleet they put P seats in two 777-300ERs then a total of 18 B777-300ERs would need to receive P seats. We cannot imagine that to happen, as I doubt that every A380 frequency will be replaced by two frequencies operated by 777-300ER.
But still, what will happen to P class on those routes that are served by A380? SHouldn't there be at least another 6-8 further 777-300ERs that would need to be equipped with a P cabin?
Jan 23, 20, 3:30 pm
#213
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
Jan 23, 20, 3:39 pm
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
Thank you Goldorak
Just one question I have: you write that two 777-300ERs will receive Premiere seats to compensate for the departure of the first A380. Given that there are nine A388s in the fleet that will all leave. If for every A388 leaving the fleet they put P seats in two 777-300ERs then a total of 18 B777-300ERs would need to receive P seats. We cannot imagine that to happen, as I doubt that every A380 frequency will be replaced by two frequencies operated by 777-300ER.
But still, what will happen to P class on those routes that are served by A380? SHouldn't there be at least another 6-8 further 777-300ERs that would need to be equipped with a P cabin?
Just one question I have: you write that two 777-300ERs will receive Premiere seats to compensate for the departure of the first A380. Given that there are nine A388s in the fleet that will all leave. If for every A388 leaving the fleet they put P seats in two 777-300ERs then a total of 18 B777-300ERs would need to receive P seats. We cannot imagine that to happen, as I doubt that every A380 frequency will be replaced by two frequencies operated by 777-300ER.
But still, what will happen to P class on those routes that are served by A380? SHouldn't there be at least another 6-8 further 777-300ERs that would need to be equipped with a P cabin?
My guess is :
- they take 2 COI B77W to add P seats (+ global retrofit) to cope with immediate need (withdrawal of the 2 first A380)
- more planes with P will be needed with progressive withdrawal of all 380
- P will be installed on a subset of the other B77W (non-COI) still having NEV4 seats. This is 12 planes and they can add P in let's say half of them. Those are in urgent need of retrofit but AF has still not chosen the seats and config for those (at least, I m not aware of any decision taken). To be clear for everyone here : this is just a guess (or a wish) from me but not a certitude as nothing has been announced by AF.
Also, as it was eventually rumored, those B777 newly retrofitted with P could have 8 seats instead of 4, so almost the same capacity as the A380 (9 P seats).
Jan 23, 20, 5:47 pm
#215
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Jan 24, 20, 12:16 am
#216
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
I think you should re-read this thread, its wiki and other threads. We were talking about P seats. The only new plane entering the fleet at the moment is A350 and AF has decided to not have P in those. So if they want to compensate the loss of many P seats with the A380 withdrawal, the only possibility is to put them in some of the current B77W not yet retrofitted and also because this is the plane type where they have P apart the A380. And as said, nothing is confirmed : this is just a guess from me because if they don't do that, there is no future for AF P product with only a bunch of seats available once the A380 withdrawn.
I don't understand. Please clarify.
Feb 12, 20, 9:58 am
#217
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: ZRH / SIN
Programs: FB Ulti, QR-Gold (OWS), TK *Gold, Bonvoy Ambassadort Elite, GHA Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 497
not much new to add here, however I wanted to share a brief conversation which I had with a La Premiere employee today. She said that they were told that they will keep offering La Premiere (to more or less the same amount of destinations), however it is still undecided whether they will use some new A350 or refit additional B77W into a 4-class configuration. They are still waiting for the decision, however were confident that La Premiere will not be "axed".
Feb 20, 20, 2:57 pm
#218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
Mar 3, 20, 11:06 am
#219
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,625
Good news I find. Would be interesting to know what happens to the COI destinations from CDG/by when they'll get the new cabins.
Apr 1, 20, 5:37 am
#221
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,625
I have no detailed information about AF's investment programs, but they did announced that they were cutting back investment projects. Remember that we are talking about a company which doesn't even refund cancelled tickets only to keep the cash, and that without taxpayer support might not survive.y
With that in mind I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped the refurbishment program. They may pick it up again once they know how many planes they'll actually need and keep, and if they can afford such a program
With that in mind I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped the refurbishment program. They may pick it up again once they know how many planes they'll actually need and keep, and if they can afford such a program
Last edited by San Gottardo; Apr 1, 20 at 5:53 am
Apr 1, 20, 3:32 pm
#222
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
I wouldn't be surprised too. And we can expect also some negotiations with A and B to delay the deliveries of A350/A220 for AF and B787 for KL, respectively.
Apr 4, 20, 12:18 pm
#224
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 20,968
no precise information, but it is 99.99% sure IMO that everything will be put on hold for a while, with possible exceptions for one or 2 planes already scheduled and that couldn't be cancelled. There's no more money available to pay for this at the moment.
Apr 5, 20, 1:19 am
#225
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: ZRH / SIN
Programs: FB Ulti, QR-Gold (OWS), TK *Gold, Bonvoy Ambassadort Elite, GHA Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 497
Agree. The best assumption is probably that demand picks up slowly and flights will be resumed gradually, so they will have excess planes parked on the ground for 12-18 months. So as soon as they start selling tickets again (liquidity comes in) they will have enough spare capacity to refit those planes sitting idle on the ground.
