AC Presence on FT
May 22, 2014, 9:26 am
#646
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,174
On the Tango vs. Flex thing. I just booked travel to LHR next month. Delta between Flex and Tango was $500. I can't justify to my employer that $500 is worthwhile simply to get 100% AQM - as there is no other benefit to me given the Copay required to e-up which my employer won't pay & that the "Flex"ibility of the ticket is limited. So I get less AQM for my TATL travel which likely drives me down a status tier or maybe two for next year. AC gets to save money on providing me the status benefits that, previously I earned through 80k or so bum on seat miles with AC.
Difficult not to be upset about that as a customer and one that, as I've already said is largely captive for TATL travel at least. So that reduces my loyalty to AC further, prompting me to consider alternatives for my domestic & US travel. So I go from being a happy AC customer, spending $70k per annum or thereabouts to a disillusioned (former) mid tier. I know I am not alone in this.
Difficult not to be upset about that as a customer and one that, as I've already said is largely captive for TATL travel at least. So that reduces my loyalty to AC further, prompting me to consider alternatives for my domestic & US travel. So I go from being a happy AC customer, spending $70k per annum or thereabouts to a disillusioned (former) mid tier. I know I am not alone in this.
In other words, the only substantial difference between Tango & Flex fares, are the things that impact me -- not my company -- things like AQM and the ability to upgrade. Things that my company has decided not to pay for.
Interestingly enough, any question of brand loyalty to AC comes from me, not my company. My company could care less if I fly with AC or Delta or AA ... as long as I get the lowest fare, they are happy. I'm the one that biases flights towards AC when I can, not my company.
Put those two facts together, and the only substantial difference between Tango & Flex is to hurt the only bias that does exist towards AC. I understand that AC wants to drive more business flyers to higher priced fares, but that's hard when none of the differences between the fares are really valuable to the business.
May 22, 2014, 1:10 pm
#647
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,918
You have to ask the question why your main competitor is making "significant inroads". I'd wager a major part of this is the fact the fares you offer that are there to compete directly with WJ domestically, offer no tangible benefit to your altitude programme. Therefore as a consumer, you can't use that to weigh up pros and cons.
The problem with tango @ 25% is you stop people using altitude as a benefit to fly with you. This is even more true when going to America, where UA offer 50%, often for less $.
It doesn't mean they won't fly with you of course; your tango fares are competitive. But tango to the masses is a no bells and whistle service that makes altitude redundant. WestJet probably provide that sector better than AC. I think AC knows this and that's where Rouge was born. When I flew Rouge, I got off the plane thinking "this is WestJet with AC's name on it". That's not an insult btw.
As stated by many others, the difference between Tango and Flex for people only interested in miles is too off putting and as good as any other reason to not worry about it at all. Perhaps rather than reducing flex fares, which would be uneconomical, or increase mileage accrual above the paltry and uncompetitive 25%, there could be room for a special, lower add-on, where people may a fee above the Tango fare that will give them 100% miles for the journey?
The problem with tango @ 25% is you stop people using altitude as a benefit to fly with you. This is even more true when going to America, where UA offer 50%, often for less $.
It doesn't mean they won't fly with you of course; your tango fares are competitive. But tango to the masses is a no bells and whistle service that makes altitude redundant. WestJet probably provide that sector better than AC. I think AC knows this and that's where Rouge was born. When I flew Rouge, I got off the plane thinking "this is WestJet with AC's name on it". That's not an insult btw.
As stated by many others, the difference between Tango and Flex for people only interested in miles is too off putting and as good as any other reason to not worry about it at all. Perhaps rather than reducing flex fares, which would be uneconomical, or increase mileage accrual above the paltry and uncompetitive 25%, there could be room for a special, lower add-on, where people may a fee above the Tango fare that will give them 100% miles for the journey?
Most of my flying is domestic, and mostly YVR-YYZ/YOW/YUL. This takes about 9 trips to make E35, and at a typical upcharge of ~$100 EW from Tango to Flex it will cost me >$1500 to maintain my E35 status. It's not worth it given the benefits these days, especially considering the difficulty in scoring an upgrade on these routes.
May 22, 2014, 2:04 pm
#648
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
destinations included in the flight passes
I just noticed that Israel is included in the "World Traveller Pass" Europe version, however it's not included in the regular Europe flight pass. (all other destinations are identical as far as I can tell)
Is this just an oversight or intentional?
Thanks in advance!
Is this just an oversight or intentional?
Thanks in advance!
May 22, 2014, 3:17 pm
#649
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
Since AC introduced Flex fares on all routes, the AC website has been pretty much useless for booking any multi-city / open-jaw bookings.
The website currently only has a choice between "Economy Lowest" (which usually books into Tango) and "Economy Flexible" (which books into Latitude).
Could AC please add an "Economy (Flex)" option and possibly change the descriptions to "Economy (Tango)" / "Economy (Flex)" / "Economy (Latitude)"?
(In an ideal world the AC website would have an advanced search engine where people could enter their desired booking class for each segment, but I don't want to be too demanding)
I'm sure quite a few call center agents would appreciate not having to deal with my bookings.
The website currently only has a choice between "Economy Lowest" (which usually books into Tango) and "Economy Flexible" (which books into Latitude).
Could AC please add an "Economy (Flex)" option and possibly change the descriptions to "Economy (Tango)" / "Economy (Flex)" / "Economy (Latitude)"?
(In an ideal world the AC website would have an advanced search engine where people could enter their desired booking class for each segment, but I don't want to be too demanding)
I'm sure quite a few call center agents would appreciate not having to deal with my bookings.
May 22, 2014, 3:52 pm
#650
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
I was away this weekend, and then in FRA for the past few days. I spent a good chunk of my day catching up on the 20+ pages in this thread I missed out on. I will be going through and posting replies to the comments Ben (Smith) was not able to address, but I think all of you for being so engaged and contributing so enthusiastically.
I will be reaching out to the mods to see if we can change the format, as this is kind of untenable going forward. That said, please don't stop!
I will be reaching out to the mods to see if we can change the format, as this is kind of untenable going forward. That said, please don't stop!
May 22, 2014, 3:57 pm
#651
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
Hi Bens
I have a J-class booking in July on which two legs are code-shared with EI following the demise of BD. In these circumstances, when the aircraft only operates a Y cabin (which is the case for EI on the DUB-LHR route) I would expect the ticket to be booked into the highest Y fare bucket.
If that had been done with EI, I would have got advance seat selection and lounge access.
However, I now find - when I ring EI - that the booking has actually been made in the very lowest fare class, so I now have to pay for seat selection ahead of check-in opening or risk my wife and I not being seated together and - because AC has not made provision for a third-party lounge in DUB - no lounge access.
On the return journey, I also have no lounge access in LHR.
The blow could have been softened if the excellent T3 Arrivals Lounge at LHR still existed, given I'd have had time to shower before taking the onward flight, but every indication is that you will not be retaining this when you move to T2 in June.
Do you have any plans to rectify these issues?
I have a J-class booking in July on which two legs are code-shared with EI following the demise of BD. In these circumstances, when the aircraft only operates a Y cabin (which is the case for EI on the DUB-LHR route) I would expect the ticket to be booked into the highest Y fare bucket.
If that had been done with EI, I would have got advance seat selection and lounge access.
However, I now find - when I ring EI - that the booking has actually been made in the very lowest fare class, so I now have to pay for seat selection ahead of check-in opening or risk my wife and I not being seated together and - because AC has not made provision for a third-party lounge in DUB - no lounge access.
On the return journey, I also have no lounge access in LHR.
The blow could have been softened if the excellent T3 Arrivals Lounge at LHR still existed, given I'd have had time to shower before taking the onward flight, but every indication is that you will not be retaining this when you move to T2 in June.
Do you have any plans to rectify these issues?
I really am sorry for the issues you're having (I know first hand how frustrating it can be to deal with one carrier when ticketed by another), and I've passed on your comments to our Alliances team.
May 22, 2014, 4:01 pm
#652
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
There seems to be some cunfusion regarding what AC's policy is with regards to providing accommodation etc. during IRROPs.
The Air Canada policy says that AC will only provide accommodation in the event of controllable IRROPs and only to UMs, disabled pax etc. in the event of uncontrollable IRROPs.
However, that policy doesn't quite seem to match the *A guidelines which seem to indicate airlines shall provide amenities such as accommodation, food, transportation etc. to premium pax and *G pax on international itineraries.
Star Alliance Reference Guide (page 128)
Could you please clarify what AC's policy is regarding providing accommodation to J/*G pax on int'l itineraries in the event of IRROPs outside AC's control?
The Air Canada policy says that AC will only provide accommodation in the event of controllable IRROPs and only to UMs, disabled pax etc. in the event of uncontrollable IRROPs.
However, that policy doesn't quite seem to match the *A guidelines which seem to indicate airlines shall provide amenities such as accommodation, food, transportation etc. to premium pax and *G pax on international itineraries.
Star Alliance Reference Guide (page 128)
Could you please clarify what AC's policy is regarding providing accommodation to J/*G pax on int'l itineraries in the event of IRROPs outside AC's control?
I don't know the official policy off hand, but I'm trying to track it down. Stay tuned.
May 22, 2014, 4:05 pm
#653
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
We invest in extensive and continuous training for our call centre agents. Obviously, policies change and sometimes you may catch someone who hasn't yet had a chance to familiarise his/herself with the new policy. We strive to ensure consistency, and we are working on new ways to make sure the first person you talk to will be able to appropriately handle your issue.
May 22, 2014, 4:06 pm
#654
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
A request that either Ben could hopefully pass on:
Change the flight pass info page off Flash. The purchase is already handled on an HTML only page, but you can't look at/purchase passes without going through a Flash based page. I'm currently at a hospital with only an iPad trying to price something out and I can't. Tres annoying.
Change the flight pass info page off Flash. The purchase is already handled on an HTML only page, but you can't look at/purchase passes without going through a Flash based page. I'm currently at a hospital with only an iPad trying to price something out and I can't. Tres annoying.
May 22, 2014, 4:07 pm
#655
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
- AC booked online -> My Bookings
- AC flight passes --> My Flight Passes -> Bookings
- AC booked over phone -> e-mail
- reward travel -> Aeroplan web site
I know the last one is complicated, but if my Aeroplan # is attached to my revenue phone bookings, web bookings and flight pass bookings, why can't I just see them all on one page on the web site?
May 22, 2014, 4:10 pm
#656
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: Aeropolan Super Elite SPG Platinum, HHonors Gold
Posts: 281
Ben Smith, if you are still listening: it is high time to start treating YVRYEGYYC as a rapid air environment like YYZYOWYUL and permit free same day standby. There seems to be tons of local business traffic on these routes, and lots of people that do there and back same day. In which case changes are frequent. It drives me bananas that I have to pay a $75 SDC in YEG just to get back home to YYC one hour sooner than I originally booked. Especially when AC provides a better quality of service for essentially the same scenario on the Eastern business travel routes.
May 22, 2014, 4:13 pm
#657
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan SE AND 1MM, HHonors Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum , L'Accor Platinum
Posts: 9,580
The web site adds the fares; rather than giving a combined fare.
For example, I often go from YOW to YVR via YYZ. I would get (even if the booking code and the fare basis are identical) the cost of the YOW-YYZ segment added to the cost of the YYZ-YVR segment.
So if the web site does not give me the exact permutation of the 2 flights, I often have to call the AC agent on the SE line. I would prefer to do this myself.
Of note, the UA web site can give a combined fare of multi-city bookings.
May 22, 2014, 4:13 pm
#658
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
Thanks for the response Ben, but this is the same response I've been hearing for the past few years.
Implementing Priority Boarding (as an example) as show below could easily be implemented by Air Canada with minimal costs and provide benefits to those higher-tiered members.
1- SE/J/MM
2- E35/50/75/*G
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
<Flame On>
I know this has been studied by Air Canada, but if this is such a high priority, why is there still no resolution to this?
<Flame Off>
Thanks again Ben, and we do appreciate your feedback!
Cheers,
Dave
Implementing Priority Boarding (as an example) as show below could easily be implemented by Air Canada with minimal costs and provide benefits to those higher-tiered members.
1- SE/J/MM
2- E35/50/75/*G
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
<Flame On>
I know this has been studied by Air Canada, but if this is such a high priority, why is there still no resolution to this?
<Flame Off>
Thanks again Ben, and we do appreciate your feedback!
Cheers,
Dave
May 22, 2014, 4:15 pm
#659
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan SE AND 1MM, HHonors Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum , L'Accor Platinum
Posts: 9,580
YOW-YUL
YOW to YTZ via YUL