AC Presence on FT
May 20, 2014, 10:33 pm
#586
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: E50K, *Gold, WS Gold,VIA Premier, VIPorter
Posts: 463
Having ranged from 25k-75k miles over the past 10 years, I think the 35k for elite was an exceptionally good deal. People were taking advantage of AC to get Star Gold (similar to Aegean now) because it was so easy to get. I loved the MLL access at and red SSWU upgrade coupons at 35k, but the program was so over subscribed.
Many times along the way, I thought that 35k was too low for full elite status, and I really didn't need to do very much flying to get it. I do feel that 50k for full elite makes more sense. Look at what you get (or don't get) with UA's premier levels.
I personally think they should remove the 35k level altogether. 25-50-75-100 makes a lot more sense.
Many times along the way, I thought that 35k was too low for full elite status, and I really didn't need to do very much flying to get it. I do feel that 50k for full elite makes more sense. Look at what you get (or don't get) with UA's premier levels.
I personally think they should remove the 35k level altogether. 25-50-75-100 makes a lot more sense.
May 20, 2014, 10:37 pm
#587
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Titanium, UA Silver
Posts: 2,648
Some people will rake me over the coals for this, but:
1) Has the idea of dropping the E35k level been floated? It's the *G that's actually *S, an unnatural progression in the 25-50-75-100 lineup. Cuts down on MLL / priority service crowding. The lower requal level for 2015 isn't a benefit for it, so it can be cut fairly easily. The old elite is the new E50k already anyway.
2) Boarding classes:
1- SE/J
2- E50/75
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
1) Has the idea of dropping the E35k level been floated? It's the *G that's actually *S, an unnatural progression in the 25-50-75-100 lineup. Cuts down on MLL / priority service crowding. The lower requal level for 2015 isn't a benefit for it, so it can be cut fairly easily. The old elite is the new E50k already anyway.
2) Boarding classes:
1- SE/J
2- E50/75
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
May 20, 2014, 10:52 pm
#588
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
There are positives with the new poo-flavoured interiors (and now website) afterall.
May 20, 2014, 11:07 pm
#589
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: YKF
Programs: AC Elite 50K, Amex AP Plat, Choice Privileges, National Exec Elite, Via Prefrence
Posts: 2,996
Some people will rake me over the coals for this, but:
1) Has the idea of dropping the E35k level been floated? It's the *G that's actually *S, an unnatural progression in the 25-50-75-100 lineup. Cuts down on MLL / priority service crowding. The lower requal level for 2015 isn't a benefit for it, so it can be cut fairly easily. The old elite is the new E50k already anyway.
2) Boarding classes:
1- SE/J
2- E50/75
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
1) Has the idea of dropping the E35k level been floated? It's the *G that's actually *S, an unnatural progression in the 25-50-75-100 lineup. Cuts down on MLL / priority service crowding. The lower requal level for 2015 isn't a benefit for it, so it can be cut fairly easily. The old elite is the new E50k already anyway.
2) Boarding classes:
1- SE/J
2- E50/75
3- P25/credit cards
4- non-FF, non-CC
*A benefits would be an afterthought for most in this segment due to most of their flights being domestic only. That's why it made more sense to devalue the *A benefits than touch priority/lounge access.
You are forgetting that AC still makes most of their money on domestic routes, and Canada ain't no small country (although has some of the highest airfares in the world).
It interesting how quickly one forgets their previous status level/benefits when the move into another tier. I enjoyed my P25K/E35K benefits and still think they should remain intact. 25/35K is still significant amount of flying, even though the elimination of a lower tier would probably help 50K and above.
May 20, 2014, 11:30 pm
#590
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
Yes, that would be ideal.
Back in the day there was one called Canada East-West. I also have had a number of colleagues express that they work for institutions/companies that don't like the idea of buying a pass that could be used for anywhere in NA but, would support purchasing a Canada only pass.
Back in the day there was one called Canada East-West. I also have had a number of colleagues express that they work for institutions/companies that don't like the idea of buying a pass that could be used for anywhere in NA but, would support purchasing a Canada only pass.
May 20, 2014, 11:32 pm
#591
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,354
May 20, 2014, 11:40 pm
#592
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: YKF
Programs: AC Elite 50K, Amex AP Plat, Choice Privileges, National Exec Elite, Via Prefrence
Posts: 2,996
No that was an exception made. AC is not under any obligation to provide hotels/meals for things outside their control. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen from time to time, but its not a published benefit. YMMV.
Last edited by kwflyer; May 20, 2014 at 11:46 pm
May 20, 2014, 11:44 pm
#593
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
IKK has had to evolve over the years like our top tier program to meet both the needs of our best customers as well as AC. When first introduced in the mid 90s it was relatively straight forward. Once credit card affinity cards became part of the program IKK in its initial form was not sustainable (eg spend 20K on AC but derive 100K in free travel). Our ability to find solutions is complicated by our unique relationship with Aimia/Aeroplan and the tri-party AC/AP/credit company accumulation programs. For our best customers we continue to offer improved redemption capacity on all routes in all classes.
Could you not grandfather current miles but going forward tie full IKK to be used with AQM miles only?
May 20, 2014, 11:51 pm
#594
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
Getting 100% AQM on Flex fares should be a reasonable expectation
Dear Ben and Ben,
Today when I book a Flex flight with a connection on LH or UA, typically I'm getting at best 50% AQM on the codeshare flight even though if I had credited to Mileage Plus I'd get 100% miles. IIRC other partners can be zero!
What can you do properly "align" with your codeshare partners so that when we are pay a premium to earn 100% AQM we actually receive what we as consumers think AC is promising.
Today when I book a Flex flight with a connection on LH or UA, typically I'm getting at best 50% AQM on the codeshare flight even though if I had credited to Mileage Plus I'd get 100% miles. IIRC other partners can be zero!
What can you do properly "align" with your codeshare partners so that when we are pay a premium to earn 100% AQM we actually receive what we as consumers think AC is promising.
May 21, 2014, 12:47 am
#595
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
While I can appreciate this, the product, combined with the apparently new policy of only permitting J (not C, not D, not Z, as per the other thread) to prebook the single seats means that my revenue has gone elsewhere. As you note, France based flyers have many options (and frankly, they seem to be increasing this year). I have revisited mine, and chosen what works best for me. I do sincerely wish AC luck in increasing revenue on this route, but my revenue wont be contributing to it in future.
May 21, 2014, 1:48 am
#596
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: yyz/ord
Programs: AC E50 UA1k 2MM AA EXP Royal Ambassador SPG Platinum
Posts: 1,516
Yes, for E35 & E50 hands down.E75 limited
For SE100K no way.
All 3 major US carriers offer far better benefits.
As UA1k for a decade I can say UA1k benefits blow AC SE benefits out of water.
1. Can apply for upgrade @ time of ticketing subject to R being available. In fall UA refined their upgrade procedure. If a 1K is waitlisted, & historical data shows 3 /4 weeks before there will be J available on day of departure, IM clears the upgrade. I have had several upgrade clear 4 weeks prior on most popular routes. SYD-SFO/LAX . HKG-SFO, SFO-FRA. Transcon From SFO-to East coast Hubs. Award waitlist clearing on Christmas period to & from Australia in J & F in saver awards. Similar to when AC SE offered 1KK .
2. No change fees for confirmed change 24 hours prior to the flight or same day including international on any published fare.
3. No fees to change or cancel award bookings. Numerous times I have had to change same award booking 3-4 times, & have paid not a penny.
4. As Million miller I can gift *Gold.
5.SWU earned have 12 months expire from the day earned, unlike AC E-upgrades earned in Nov have shelf life of 3 months FEB of the following year.
6. Cancellation due weather, 1Ks get hotel room with meals & transfers.
7. Equipment not working in flight, travel certs with value from 200.00 to 400.00 for 1Ks including IFE. With AC 5% of base fare if lucky, most of the time nada including long haul flights.
Contrary to recent posts on United forum, the New United has given me & continue to give me fantastic customer service. I have posted this on UA forum.
Above a few of the benefits that come to mind. There are others.
As I have posted many times on this forum & UA Forum; if there comes a time when my travel is reduced and I have to choose between
AC SE or UA1k, no brainer UA1K. In a heartbeat,
Delta & AA from feedback I am getting from AC SE who have taken advantage of Comp status to DELTA's Diamond & AA Top Tier, the benefits are similar to United 1K & way better than what they received in the past couple of years.
For SE100K no way.
All 3 major US carriers offer far better benefits.
As UA1k for a decade I can say UA1k benefits blow AC SE benefits out of water.
1. Can apply for upgrade @ time of ticketing subject to R being available. In fall UA refined their upgrade procedure. If a 1K is waitlisted, & historical data shows 3 /4 weeks before there will be J available on day of departure, IM clears the upgrade. I have had several upgrade clear 4 weeks prior on most popular routes. SYD-SFO/LAX . HKG-SFO, SFO-FRA. Transcon From SFO-to East coast Hubs. Award waitlist clearing on Christmas period to & from Australia in J & F in saver awards. Similar to when AC SE offered 1KK .
2. No change fees for confirmed change 24 hours prior to the flight or same day including international on any published fare.
3. No fees to change or cancel award bookings. Numerous times I have had to change same award booking 3-4 times, & have paid not a penny.
4. As Million miller I can gift *Gold.
5.SWU earned have 12 months expire from the day earned, unlike AC E-upgrades earned in Nov have shelf life of 3 months FEB of the following year.
6. Cancellation due weather, 1Ks get hotel room with meals & transfers.
7. Equipment not working in flight, travel certs with value from 200.00 to 400.00 for 1Ks including IFE. With AC 5% of base fare if lucky, most of the time nada including long haul flights.
Contrary to recent posts on United forum, the New United has given me & continue to give me fantastic customer service. I have posted this on UA forum.
Above a few of the benefits that come to mind. There are others.
As I have posted many times on this forum & UA Forum; if there comes a time when my travel is reduced and I have to choose between
AC SE or UA1k, no brainer UA1K. In a heartbeat,
Delta & AA from feedback I am getting from AC SE who have taken advantage of Comp status to DELTA's Diamond & AA Top Tier, the benefits are similar to United 1K & way better than what they received in the past couple of years.
1K is a far better option. And at 1MM you gift the status you have 1k not gold
someone earlier in this thread asked for 2MM to be improved at Air Canada. YYZPRINCESS, how does UA and AC 2MM compare.
I have also decided to abandon AC even thought I have 800k in lifetime miles. I guess I am going to go for UA 2MM because I am at 1.6MM, amazing because I have at least 8 1k that were all SE's.
Ben you are losing way to many SE customers with all these cuts. If a person is not stuck flying in Canada the other airline programs kill AC SE. The other thing I think AC forgets, every lost SE takes a lot of customers with them.
May 21, 2014, 3:48 am
#597
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,268
I agree. We who fly should not be competing with the credit card point chureners.
May 21, 2014, 4:01 am
#598
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
True, but with 47 active 744s in service, they'll be around until 2020. BA is introducing a new F cabin with the 787-9 and a new Club World cabin is expected for this as well. Who knows what the playing field will look like when the A350s come on board. I'm more concerned about the here and now!
May 21, 2014, 5:13 am
#599
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SEMM; AA,DL, Hyatt and Starwood. Ex-status:SQ PPS,CSA,Hilton,AA,UA
Posts: 743
Dear Bens - thanks for being here. This is less a question, and more tough love for you to take to your commercial strategy folks. Of course, any feedback welcome.
I'm the sort of customer you really want to be loyal. 250k+ annual butt-in-seat miles (ranging from 200-450k in a given year, across all airlines), vast majority in paid J. Many trips booked last minute and/or changed while en route, therefore very price insensitive (my travel is sufficiently complicated that no one bothers trying to optimize cost). But you've lost my loyalty. I haven't flounced off - I still fly you when it's most convenient (which is often) and I value your product, both in the air and the concierges. But I've lost any bias to send you my $$ vs someone else (other *A or OW). Here's why.
a) I genuinely value Aeroplan miles for personal travel for me and my family. For reasons I commercially understand, you have watered down their value, just as competitors have watered down their FF miles as well. However, the combined effect of redemption mileage increases, co-pays (YQ), watered down IKK, loss of BATCAT means that for me Aeroplan miles have had an implied annual "inflation rate" of nearly 20% since I started travelling so much back in 2005/06. I currently have over a million miles in my Aeroplan account, no credit cards, all from flying (over 3 million lifetime *A). With that level of value reduction, and more to come I am sure, I just can't get that excited about accumulating more. When I stop travelling so much for work in a few years, I can no longer trust I'll be able to meaningfully use them. So it's not a bad idea for me to spread my flying around, accumulating also on UA, AA, DL. I'm sure they will erode in value as well, but at least I'll be diversified.
b) While I was chasing 1MM status, it made sense to prefer AC. *G/E50K for life was worth something, even if actual accumulated miles are losing value. Your pods were best in class. But 1) watered down/costly upgrades for E50K (doesn't matter to me much now, but will when I "retire"), 2) the lack of a meaningful 1.5MM and 2MM uptick, 3) rouging of many interesting vacation destinations (so I'll prefer to fly someone else to get there when I do go) together mean that now that I have 1MM there's little incentive to be AC-loyal going forward. While I fly madly for work, it doesn't matter - I know I'll easily make SE100K anyway, and there are many more flat-bed options than there used to be. When I stop flying for work, the extra I throw AC's way now won't matter.
I completely understand you've had to do some of these things. Just letting you know it has had consequences for people like me. Back when I could BATCAT my wife on a couple of trips a year, IKK my dad to come visit us from Europe in J -- all for a few hundred $ in genuine fees, not $1000 in co-pay -- and plan to draw down my Aeroplan balance with an occasional trip to Hawaii in flat beds when I retire, you did have pretty strong loyalty from me. Now I'm a just a friendly free agent.
I'm the sort of customer you really want to be loyal. 250k+ annual butt-in-seat miles (ranging from 200-450k in a given year, across all airlines), vast majority in paid J. Many trips booked last minute and/or changed while en route, therefore very price insensitive (my travel is sufficiently complicated that no one bothers trying to optimize cost). But you've lost my loyalty. I haven't flounced off - I still fly you when it's most convenient (which is often) and I value your product, both in the air and the concierges. But I've lost any bias to send you my $$ vs someone else (other *A or OW). Here's why.
a) I genuinely value Aeroplan miles for personal travel for me and my family. For reasons I commercially understand, you have watered down their value, just as competitors have watered down their FF miles as well. However, the combined effect of redemption mileage increases, co-pays (YQ), watered down IKK, loss of BATCAT means that for me Aeroplan miles have had an implied annual "inflation rate" of nearly 20% since I started travelling so much back in 2005/06. I currently have over a million miles in my Aeroplan account, no credit cards, all from flying (over 3 million lifetime *A). With that level of value reduction, and more to come I am sure, I just can't get that excited about accumulating more. When I stop travelling so much for work in a few years, I can no longer trust I'll be able to meaningfully use them. So it's not a bad idea for me to spread my flying around, accumulating also on UA, AA, DL. I'm sure they will erode in value as well, but at least I'll be diversified.
b) While I was chasing 1MM status, it made sense to prefer AC. *G/E50K for life was worth something, even if actual accumulated miles are losing value. Your pods were best in class. But 1) watered down/costly upgrades for E50K (doesn't matter to me much now, but will when I "retire"), 2) the lack of a meaningful 1.5MM and 2MM uptick, 3) rouging of many interesting vacation destinations (so I'll prefer to fly someone else to get there when I do go) together mean that now that I have 1MM there's little incentive to be AC-loyal going forward. While I fly madly for work, it doesn't matter - I know I'll easily make SE100K anyway, and there are many more flat-bed options than there used to be. When I stop flying for work, the extra I throw AC's way now won't matter.
I completely understand you've had to do some of these things. Just letting you know it has had consequences for people like me. Back when I could BATCAT my wife on a couple of trips a year, IKK my dad to come visit us from Europe in J -- all for a few hundred $ in genuine fees, not $1000 in co-pay -- and plan to draw down my Aeroplan balance with an occasional trip to Hawaii in flat beds when I retire, you did have pretty strong loyalty from me. Now I'm a just a friendly free agent.
May 21, 2014, 5:31 am
#600
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,531
Hello Bens,
Just a quick thanks for taking the time to do this. I appreciate learning more about the decisions and how they are made. I understand that most people here are asking questions that involve their personal needs/wants. Its great for me to get a better understanding of the goals on a corporate level. Makes more sense of many decisions.
I hope you continue to do this, and I hope people here appreciate the uniqueness of having quasi-direct access to high level execs.
Just a quick thanks for taking the time to do this. I appreciate learning more about the decisions and how they are made. I understand that most people here are asking questions that involve their personal needs/wants. Its great for me to get a better understanding of the goals on a corporate level. Makes more sense of many decisions.
I hope you continue to do this, and I hope people here appreciate the uniqueness of having quasi-direct access to high level execs.