Silvercity

+2^

Absolute

+3 - I really do prefer UA's groups, especially with the pre-set lineups. It means you can line up early or wait for the call, without (generally) crowding the podium, group everyone in the same line regardless of status, or blocking the exit lane for deplaning. I say generally, as I know it varies per airport, what aircraft is used, etc., but it's a sane order that I prefer.

Also agree with separating out the paying business and SE's who are giving their business to AC, although I may be a little biased.

Jasper2009

Thanks for the suggestions on how to improve this thread - they have been heard. However the current format is the one chosen by the AC reps. That's not to say a different format may be implemented at some point.

It would obviously be appreciated if FTers could avoid off-topic posts and minimize back-and-forth discussions which are more appropiate in other threads.

Thanks,

Jasper2009
Air Canada Moderator

flybit

Rouge is subject to market forces in Canada and therefore will be very expensive vs flying in USA as an example.

Reality is anyone flying an AC 777HD should be warned when booking about horrid seats/lack of washrooms, and no space in bins for y customers before they purchase. Lets hope Transport Canada forces the issue.

willflyforfood

can anyone argue against the point made that the budget brands in a hotel chain are categorically designed to offer travelers a "budget" price hotel stay? A one-off comparison of a single evening notwithstanding, a night's stay at a Ritz-Carlton will always cost more than a night's stay at that chain's "budget" or "downscale" roof.

More to the point, Ben(s), is that the comments you are hearing is that you've created a budget model for you without the convenient by-product of creating a budget model for PAX. I applaud your attempts to try and bring AC out of the red, but don't try and convince pax that it's a good deal to book ROUGE for the same price as what the former mainline version of that flight once cost.

However, if you were to offer a genuine stand-alone LCC, with it's own booking engine, infrastructure, etc..., then the comparison would be valid. Oh wait, that wouldn't work as it wouldn't pencil... So, we are left with the very unsatisfying hybrid model. And it is very unsatisfying because the move to Rouge has upside on only one side of the equation.

And for the record, I have just booked 2 returns on EVA for March 2015 in J at $5150 vs $7243 for AC. I know about the pros and cons of this decision, but frankly, I'm happier to see EVA get my 10K than AC, and I'll still collect my QM. I don't even pay for my own tickets, but after getting hosed on a flight pass that went ROGUE, it feels good to let my money talk instead of just whining.

However, I do appreciate the BENS standing on the firing line.

winnipegrev

I heard unofficially that the 20 E90s leaving the fleet as part of the 737 deal are being replaced in the near term with leased 320s/321s, any details on when/if this will happen? Would they get the XM interior to avoid a 763 amigos-situation (you must have lots of Airbus seats sitting around after all the Rouge conversions...)?

Also wondering about near term YWG expansion plans. WS serves many sun destinations nonstop from YWG (PSP, MCO, LAS, PHX, PVR, SJD, CUN, MBJ) while AC just ended 1/3 sun destinations (PUJ) last year. Any chance of us being able to expect fewer YYZ transfers when we head south now that you have Rouge? Connecting using AC mainline instead of WS nonstop was competitive for me before, but to now connect in YYZ/YVR/YYC just to hop on a Rouge plane... not so much.

allbrosca

To play the devil's advocate, if I had priority boarding as a benefit and then found I was the 3rd or 4th group to board, I would be royally peeved and feel I no longer had priority boarding!

ridefar

Ben Smith, if you are still listening: it is high time to start treating YVRYEGYYC as a rapid air environment like YYZYOWYUL and permit free same day standby. There seems to be tons of local business traffic on these routes, and lots of people that do there and back same day. In which case changes are frequent. It drives me bananas that I have to pay a $75 SDC in YEG just to get back home to YYC one hour sooner than I originally booked. Especially when AC provides a better quality of service for essentially the same scenario on the Eastern business travel routes.

OttawaMark

So really there is no benefit to the typical leisure traveler to chose Rouge over, well, any other carrier. Prices are no lower than anyone else and the travel experience is certainly no better than anyone else.

Rouge seems to exist only as a tool for AC profitability and not as a true low cost alternative for the leisure traveler. You are simply offering mainline prices while giving far less comfort than mainline travellers receive. Why would I ever choose Rouge?

danapop

Something is going on with the E90s because both YEG-YUL and YEG-YOW have been up gauged from their usual E90 to an A320

AA_EXP09

Maybe for the additional TATL traffic?

yyzprincess

Of course. I figured it out within few minutes of going on AC website & seeing YYZ-DUB-YYZ was just slightly less than YYZ-LHR-DUB-LHR-YYZ.
Ditto for checking other Rouge TALT destination.

YVR-LAX/SFO rouged is no less than pre-rouge.

I am surprise so many savvy FTalkers on this board are buying into AC's spin that rouge is expanding to serve the leisure market & not as a tool for AC profitability.

I have been given assurance YYZ-LHR will not go to Sardine Can. Do I believe it? just as I believe in Santa Claus & Tooth fairy.

Moving forward I will no longer book any flights in advance in case I get rouged or end up in Sardine Can

Only AC flights I will book would be 7-14 days. Any advance bookings will go to United or other *A carrier.

rankourabu

I remember when people on this very forum with "connections" to AC would get all worked up, deny, and then laugh at people that suggested that AC will put Tango fares on "core business" routes such as YYZ-NYC.....

ffsim

It's kind of an apples and oranges comparison. It's easy to put Tango fares on "core business" routes. It's difficult to expand the routes serviced by the "slaveships" when there are only 5 in the fleet

Premiere Elite - YEG

+1 and amen, ridefar! This is the number 1 question that I wanted to ask our Ben-Santas after reading the hundreds of replies to this thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed the hassle free and SDC free environment out East and feel it is ideally suited as per the post above. I'd even accept just YYC-YEG as a start. Puhleeeeze, I have been a really good SE this year.

BTW, thanks for professionally engaging us at FT. You've more than stepped up to the task and your tone/demeanour is spot-on for us faithful AC status monkeys.