smallmj

They can always say that those seats are so wide that 29 or 28 inch seat pitch will be acceptable. We'll see what happens.

flyme2

I've heard a rumour that YYZ-BOG will be Rouged. Can anyone confirm this? YYZ-BOG in J on a 767 is one of the only lie flats, that I am aware, flying from North America to Bogota.

rankourabu

Doesn't Avianca run 787s to BOG, at least from NYC?

Noone will be able to confirm anything, until one day you ll find yourself rouged

flyme2

Thanks for this, I had previously only seen their angled flat A330 product. I like AC's YYZ-BOG 767 classic pod and the 200% bonus I get when attributing the miles to UA MP. No amount of miles is going to entice me to appreciate Rouge.

YOWisHome

Pilots are not cheaper. Same Pilots from the same Union. Same pay scale. Advantages were to jump the CUE so to speak as you could become a Captain on an airbus over going to an ERJ -- For Captains on a 767 it is also similar instead of going to a 319/320/321 go to a 767. Also for the FO's similar deal as they could get a higher seat.

winnipegrev

Pilots are cheaper. They aren't on the same pay scale or work rules as mainline.

misapply

Pitch and seat width are specified by the operating airline. It's up to them to specify the interior cabin spec.

skipness1E

Are the pilots on the Air Canada seniority list or is ROU an arms length entity? i.e. No overlap between loco and mainline?

YOWisHome

ugh yes they are -- same Union and they can transfer back to mainline after 2 years.

YOWisHome

Different "list" that was why they chose to move over. Allowed them to make an "upward" move in flying position while also allowed some to make the move to the Left seat on the Airbus and "skip" the line down to the EMB-190. They were then required to stay a minimum of 2 years before transfer back to mainline is allowed. Pilots have the same working conditions -- FAs don't they have the crap. Though they recently got brought into the same union and got to vote on the mainline FA contract recently. Which included a clause that would allow them to transfer to mainline (but only if it would not disrupt operations -- guess what not many got to move).

eigenvector

So to be clear - a Rouge captain or first officer is paid the same as an ML pilot on the same type/position, even though they would have less years on the job?

YOWisHome

They are the same Aircraft and in the same ball park. Some Pilots chose to stay on the Right for a longer period as they move up on planes/or list and get a better life style. Some are happier maximizing their work schedule (like say doing 8 days of work in August) while getting to have 4 day layovers in a warm country in the winter and "working" more days. However if they were to "move up" maybe they end up with a crappy schedule or stuck on Reserve as they are bottom of the list on that aircraft. Similarly if they make the choice to go from the Right to the Left seat then the will most likely be dropping down from as high as say a 767 or 787 right seat to go to an E-190.

Now if they made the choice at the beginning then you have say 767/777 FOs who actually do have a "long time on the job" who are jumping Left side list to go to the 767 on Rouge. Now if you then apply that to the Airbus you would have E-190 Captains that could move up and 319/20/21 FOs (probably also 767 FOs) that could head to the Left seat on the 320 and make more money. The only catch was that your not able to transfer back for 2 years. Like everyone I am sure many saw this as yet another Zip or Tango that would just get eaten up by mainline and did not want to move. Others saw it as an opportunity to get better flying or make the jump to the Left without having to go down to the 190 and get stuck with 4 day pairings 3 times a month.

Same pilots and same contract. Will they open up past 50 planes -- I am sure it all depends on what they get offered. The only group that controls this now is the pilots. All of the other groups signed on their 10 year contracts and only the Pilots have a say in it. However they left a loophole that they can "re-open" discussions collectively This is smart as the other groups can't do anything for 10 years about it.

FlyWorld

I completed YYZ-PRG and can confirm that it is indeed as horrible as everyone says it is. This was the worst long-haul flight of my life and a shameful blemish on the reputation of Air Canada, and Canada in general.

The aircraft seemed to be roughly 30 years old and there was no indication that anything had been updated. The safety briefing is still delivered the old fashioned way, by hand, with flight attendants demonstrating. The microphone had "feedback" sounds that I haven't heard in decades. The seat next to me had hard vomit or some other liquid/food type object that had been calcified and hardened. The slot between the opening of the tray had black grime in it. The walls had scuff marks. The bathrooms were filthy beyond description. There were hardened brown and red substances on the toilet seat. The seats had ancient hardware and I started to have severe back pain within 40 minutes of sitting down.

I was never given an opportunity to buy up into premium economy but at check-in, I did have an offer to pay $100 to move toward the front of Y. I got row 12, the first row in Y.

This turned out to be a huge mistake because the AC system wasn't functional. It seemed there was only one spot producing cold air, and that was the vents directly above rows 12-18. Most of the pax in those rows were shivering, using multiple blankets, and some were even covering their heads with the blankets, burqa style. Meanwhile, it was uncomfortably hot in the rest of the aircraft. The head flight attendant said this was a known problem with this aircraft but I guess AC was too cheap to be bothered fixing it.

Then, the flight attendants moved up a family (mother, father, and two loud and small children) from the back into row 12. They installed a bassinet and the kids were screaming most of the flight. They forced one guy to move, and the other woman seated next to the bassinet got fed up and moved back. Luckily for me, this was all on the other side of the aircraft, so I wasn't much bothered, but two other passengers were displaced while this family took up a total of 5 seats for themselves, and if I had paid $100 extra to have that specific seat and then was displaced by someone who didn't pay for that seat and was just moved up there, I'd have been unhappy. Seat roulette is one thing, but if they are going to charge a $100 premium for a seat, then it ought to be honored.

On the upside, the food was within normal expectations for Y, and I thought the flight attendants were as friendly as any.

Having read about how terrible the true Y experience is (i.e. the seats farther back), I did walk back to see what it was like. Overall, it seemed to me that the seats in the back were equivalent to standard Y on a United Continental aircraft and the front Y seats were equivalent to what United Continental would call economy plus.

The seats themselves were extremely uncomfortable as described, however, they were still not as terrible as the "slim line" seats that Jeff Smisek installed on his Continental aircraft. So, I guess it's all relative to what you're expecting or accustomed to. Relative to flying United Continental, Rouge was about the same, even a bit better. Relative to flying AC mainline, I can see how this would be a shock.

I've been flying AC a lot for the past few years and have really appreciated them. This was a shocking disappointment. I will never fly Rouge again no matter what the route or cost, and my overall feelings about Air Canada have fallen considerably. They should be ashamed of themselves and I don't understand how a company that's invested so heavily in building a respected brand with quality hard and soft product could allow it to be damaged by such a cheap and filthy sub-par affiliated brand.

Jumper Jack

777HD Y /789 Y = Quality hard product?

??????????????????????????

ROFL

misapply

You get what you pay for.