The smallest state

That is a fantastic value. Really good price.

Caveat emporium though, see Northern Canucks comment about Greyhound seats offering more room and comfort.

But a fantastic value none the less

acysb87

I just may overnight at YUL to take mainline to BGI next year

Northern Canuck

And if you fly business or Latitude (I think) AC will pay for the hotel. Actually I flew rouge Premium (767) last year to BGI and it was fine, service was a little "rough around the edges" but at least they were pleasant and trying.

shonamac

What does PremEco on Rouge (DUB-YYZ) look like? In terms of seats, catering etc?

bocastephen

Of the top 6 carriers at FLL, only 2 - Southwest and jetBlue - offer no form of premium seating of any kind. Delta, United, American, and even Spirit, offer a form of premium seat, and combined deliver the majority of seats in the market. Business travelers who work for many of the regions large corporations provide a significant amount of premium fare traffic for the full service carriers like Delta and United and upgrades on these airlines are hard to get due to the volume of paid F seats.

jetBlue's numbers are skewed because they are using FLL as a mini-hub to service the Caribbean and northern South America, drawing a new catchment for Palm Beach and Broward County away from Miami.

I have flown countless trips on Air Canada between FLL and YYZ for years, and have never flown a flight that did not have a significant (they are not hard to spot) contingent of business travelers.

While I think Air Canada's decision is a faulty one on comfort and service alone (the same argument can apply to Rouge as a whole), it does not mean all of these markets are pure leisure and low yield....as with most markets, they have a healthy mix of fares...and didn't Air Canada switch other business markets to Rouge last year, IIRC, wasn't YVR/SFO and YVR/LAX flown as Rouge for awhile? Are those also cheap, low yield tourist markets?

winnipegrev

Don't fool yourself into thinking being served by J equipped aircraft means it is not a rock-bottom yielding market. Likely the only reason those carriers offer J to FLL is because they don't have subfleets of all-Y (non RJ) aircraft.

When they did have all-Y aircraft, FLL were among the very first destinations they deployed them.

United - Ted
Delta - Song
Air Canada - Tango

I would bet AC can sustain 1-2 Airbus year round on decent enough traffic... but in cold months when Rouge goes to 3-4 daily B763s YYZFLL, 3-4 daily B763s YULFLL and a handful of Airbus you can rest assured they are being packed to the gills with cheap cruise cattle and others looking for sun.

acysb87

I recently nixed a trip to BCN on AC as the routing had me on an overnight 763 ACr .
Mrs.acysb87 prefers a non-stop,I wanted a FRA or MUC mainline connection getting there.
No common ground,no BCN :-)

InTheAirGuy

Most definitely BGI has no premium travellers.

Which is why AA just dowgauged the route.

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...s_A321_new.php


----

American Expands A321 Miami International Routes in W16
Posted: 12 Jul 2016 11:00 PM PDT
American Airlines in winter 2016/17 season continues to expand Airbus A321Sharklet (32B) international operations from Miami, as additional routes to be operated by the new aircraft.

Miami – Barbados eff 04NOV16 2 daily, replacing 757/767

acysb87

10 lie flats,20 business.36 main cabin extra and 36 economy= 102 seats of which 36 seats are economy.

Rouge 763 is 24 premium rouge,35 rouge plus and 221 economy

IOW 37% economy on AA and 79 % economy on ACr

Heffeh41

I believe Jet Blue announced there Mint product will be in the up coming FLL-LAX route.

canadiancow

While I agree with your point, the MCE seats are the same width as the regular Y seats, so I don't think I'd say they're not Y.

D582

Actually, it would be this config that AA is using: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...us_A321_V2.php

The one you describe is only used on transcon NYC-LAX/SFO

Symmetre

That is a low price ... whether it represents value or not depends on who's crammed into the zero-pitch seat for 7+ hours.

Regardless, the fact is fares like that are also somewhat exceptional. Most often, we see rouge flights at the same price which AC charges for mainline service. If rouge were a true LCC, it should sell for a lower retail price than mainline on the exact same routes. Yet that has never happened. Saying rouge exists because pax demand lower fares is complete rubbish. It exists because Calin and his yes-boys all want a bigger bonus, pure and simple.

CloudsBelow

You picked the entirely wrong configuration which, when corrected, contradicts the very theory you’re trying to defend.
Further, What relevance is the gauge and frequency of MIA<>BGI when discussing Canada <> BGI?
Wait, Are you including a heavy Spirit Airlines presence to substantiate a high yielding market position?
Actually, they don’t deliver a majority. And that’s even allowing the insane premise of including Spirit in the “high yielding, front cabin” theory
Do you realize how relatively tiny UAL is @ FLL?
What large Corps are heavy users at FLL?
That healthy mix is the key. Airlines keep premium offerings where healthy appetite for them remains.
Ontario+Quebec>FLL is a gigantic market. Enormous. Obviously, there is some business connection. Overwhelmingly it’s vacation/snowbird traffic. Granted, some of that market is wealthy and ready to purchase front cabin fares. Vast majority just want to make it down safely and as cheap as possible
Ask Alaskan what % of the local Vancouver<>California market is comprised of all this Hollywood elite buying full J that we hear so much about.

canadiancow

YVR-SFO is a very weird route.

I've been the only one in J.

I've been the only one who "asked" to be in J (i.e. the rest were opups).

I've missed upgrades as SE in M class.

I've been unable to book with a Latitude FP (requires Y space).

I've been unable to do complimentary upgrade with a Latitude FP (requires J space).

One week I'd totally believe "no one pays real money for this route". The next, the entire day is J0Y0, and even if I were willing to spend $2000, I couldn't.