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Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.

Old Mar 28, 2024, 5:00 am
  #29116  
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First off, a hearty THANK YOU to moondog for taking the OTAQ&D baton and running with a nice set of questions that have generated a robust percolation amongst the participants. Well done!

4. Which airline was the first to introduce in-flight entertainment systems on its aircraft, and what year did it occur?

Well, I believe the first airline to show an inflight movie aboard its airplane was Alaska aboard a DC-6. I'm not sure of the year, but I'm thinking late 1950s or even 1960 since Alaska took delivery of its first jet - a Convair 880 in '61 or '62.

That said, how many airplanes were we working with here? Was it just a single DC-6? Also, I don't recall hearing that movies were continued aboard the 880s.

As such, I believe TWA would be the first carrier to introduce "in-flight entertainment systems" aboard its aircraft (plural), with that aircraft being the 707. I don't believe TWA offered movies on anything other than transcon flights, which the 880 didn't have the legs for. As to the year - early 1960s, no doubt. Let's go with 1962
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Old Mar 29, 2024, 10:36 am
  #29117  
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Originally Posted by moondog
12. (1975-87) I flew between HYA and BOS every other weekend until my parents deemed I was old enough to take the bus instead. These flights were on 2 different airlines onboard 7 different a/c types. Several of the a/c types were common between these airlines, but in the case of the HYA-BOS route at the time, we’re looking for a 2 + 5 split. Please identify the airlines and the airplanes.
12-
we've had more than a few Quiz questions over the years involving airlines and aircraft operating between BOS and HYA/EWB/MVY/ACK

I'll try these to start:
(1) Provincetown-Boston Airlines (PBA)
  • Cessna 402
  • YS-11

(2) Air New England
  • Beech 99
  • DHC-6 Twin Otter
  • DC-3
  • FH-227B
  • Convair 580
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Old Mar 29, 2024, 11:17 am
  #29118  
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12. (1975-87) I flew between HYA and BOS every other weekend until my parents deemed I was old enough to take the bus instead. These flights were on 2 different airlines onboard 7 different a/c types. Several of the a/c types were common between these airlines, but in the case of the HYA-BOS route at the time, we’re looking for a 2 + 5 split. Please identify the airlines and the airplanes.

Originally Posted by jrl767
12-
we've had more than a few Quiz questions over the years involving airlines and aircraft operating between BOS and HYA/EWB/MVY/ACK

I'll try these to start:
(1) Provincetown-Boston Airlines (PBA)
  • Cessna 402
  • YS-11

(2) Air New England
  • Beech 99
  • DHC-6 Twin Otter
  • DC-3
  • FH-227B
  • Convair 580
You've correctly identified both airlines, 5 of the 7 planes, and 4 of the 7 planes are in the correct airline buckets.

Seat2A I'm still working on a response to your response to the IFE question...a much more challenging prompt (at least for me) than I initially anticipated.
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Old Mar 29, 2024, 2:00 pm
  #29119  
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Originally Posted by moondog
12. (1975-87) I flew between HYA and BOS every other weekend until my parents deemed I was old enough to take the bus instead. These flights were on 2 different airlines onboard 7 different a/c types. Several of the a/c types were common between these airlines, but in the case of the HYA-BOS route at the time, we’re looking for a 2 + 5 split. Please identify the airlines and the airplanes.
jrl767: I'll try these to start:
(1) Provincetown-Boston Airlines (PBA)
  • Cessna 402
  • YS-11
(2) Air New England
  • Beech 99
  • DHC-6 Twin Otter
  • DC-3
  • FH-227B
  • Convair 580
You've correctly identified both airlines, 5 of the 7 planes, and 4 of the 7 planes are in the correct airline buckets.
presuming one of the types associated with PBA is correct, I'm struggling to think of two other types that wore the colorful NE livery (Air New England always used that code, having started operations after Delta absorbed Northeast ~1970; I flew LGA-EWB-HYA on this bird in Mar 1973)

so maybe I need to revisit that ... let's try PBA as the DC-3 operator; they also had several Martin 404s that were regulars on the Cape routes between about May and September (they migrated to the Florida division in the winter months), and that means there's only one NE type still outstanding

we have to be looking at something of a size that didn't require a flight attendant; how about an EMB-110 Bandeirante?
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Old Mar 30, 2024, 5:33 am
  #29120  
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Since nobody else has yet had a stab at this one, we might as well clear it off the board...

7. Which airline introduced the first-ever scheduled transatlantic jet service in 1958, and which aircraft did it utilize for this service?

BOAC with the Comet 4, from LHR to IDL (Now JFK)
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Old Mar 30, 2024, 11:43 pm
  #29121  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
First off, a hearty THANK YOU to moondog for taking the OTAQ&D baton and running with a nice set of questions that have generated a robust percolation amongst the participants. Well done!

4. Which airline was the first to introduce in-flight entertainment systems on its aircraft, and what year did it occur?

Well, I believe the first airline to show an inflight movie aboard its airplane was Alaska aboard a DC-6. I'm not sure of the year, but I'm thinking late 1950s or even 1960 since Alaska took delivery of its first jet - a Convair 880 in '61 or '62.

That said, how many airplanes were we working with here? Was it just a single DC-6? Also, I don't recall hearing that movies were continued aboard the 880s.

As such, I believe TWA would be the first carrier to introduce "in-flight entertainment systems" aboard its aircraft (plural), with that aircraft being the 707. I don't believe TWA offered movies on anything other than transcon flights, which the 880 didn't have the legs for. As to the year - early 1960s, no doubt. Let's go with 1962
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this one. Question 4 is similar to the "entirely computer designed airplane" question (10) in that the key term (in-flight entertainment systems) hasn't been defined with much precision or clarity. However, in the case of question 10, the intended answer makes a great deal of sense regardless of how the key term is defined, and this is not the case with IFE.

Well, I've been sparring with my bot about its intended answer v TWA and it insists that "system" implies more than just handing out playing cards or showing movies, and that the first IFE system was introduced in 1971 by an airline that was based somewhere other than the US. When pressed to back up this claim, the questioner (and the guy in my company who is in charge of it) pretty much tells me it's common knowledge, and I haven't been able to find any solid evidence myself.

As such, we can continue to discuss this (and I will divulge the intended answer, of course), but your TWA answer works for me, otherwise.

This was actually one of the more intriguing questions in the set to me, but I had no idea a wild goose chase would ensue.

Originally Posted by Seat 2A
Since nobody else has yet had a stab at this one, we might as well clear it off the board...

7. Which airline introduced the first-ever scheduled transatlantic jet service in 1958, and which aircraft did it utilize for this service?

BOAC with the Comet 4, from LHR to IDL (Now JFK)
Yes!
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 12:07 am
  #29122  
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Originally Posted by moondog
12. (1975-87) I flew between HYA and BOS every other weekend until my parents deemed I was old enough to take the bus instead. These flights were on 2 different airlines onboard 7 different a/c types. Several of the a/c types were common between these airlines, but in the case of the HYA-BOS route at the time, we’re looking for a 2 + 5 split. Please identify the airlines and the airplanes.

You've correctly identified both airlines, 5 of the 7 planes, and 4 of the 7 planes are in the correct airline buckets.
Originally Posted by jrl767
presuming one of the types associated with PBA is correct, I'm struggling to think of two other types that wore the colorful NE livery (Air New England always used that code, having started operations after Delta absorbed Northeast ~1970; I flew LGA-EWB-HYA on this bird in Mar 1973)

so maybe I need to revisit that ... let's try PBA as the DC-3 operator; they also had several Martin 404s that were regulars on the Cape routes between about May and September (they migrated to the Florida division in the winter months), and that means there's only one NE type still outstanding

we have to be looking at something of a size that didn't require a flight attendant; how about an EMB-110 Bandeirante?
Correct on all fronts.

My initial instinct in my previous reply was to simply suggest that you switch the order of the airlines, but then I saw there was an opportunity to make a logic riddle out of it instead.

I'm guessing that Air New England probably flew some of those other airplanes between HYA and BOS before my stint, but I only had 4 years with Air New England (before they went BK) and the rest was with PBA (before they ceased to be PBA...I think a lot of their assets, like the 402s, might have lived on).

I was only allowed to fly on Air New England while they were around because my dad was a supplier (therefore, free) and PBA was the only option after that (well, there could have been a little overlap with Cape Air towards the end). By the way, the YS11s and Martin 404s were unicorns on that route, but I became fairly adept at scoring them (it wasn't as simple as them just being scheduled because there were usually smaller planes on hand to substitute for them; when they were slotted for things like BOS-HYA-XXX on Sunday afternoons during peak season, those tended to fly).

Last edited by moondog; Mar 31, 2024 at 12:12 am
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 12:08 am
  #29123  
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Originally posted in #29096

1. Prior to the widespread adoption of radar systems, what were the primary navigational aids used by pilots for long-distance flights during the early 20th century?
ANSWERED (celestial navigation)

2. Prior to the introduction of the Boeing 747, what was the largest commercial airliner in terms of passenger capacity?
ANSWERED (DC8)


3. During World War II, this airline played a significant role in ferrying military aircraft and personnel. What was the name of the airline, and which routes did it operate during this period?

4. Which airline was the first to introduce in-flight entertainment systems on its aircraft, and what year did it occur?

Let’s keep this open for discussion, for now, but in the event of no consensus at the close of these questions, TWA in 1962 (proposed by Seat2A in post 29116) will win by default.

5. The "Golden Age of Aviation" is often associated with a period between the two World Wars. Name two famous aircraft from this era and the airlines that operated them.

6. What was the significance of the 1930 Air Mail Act in the United States, and how did it impact the development of commercial aviation?

7. Which airline introduced the first-ever scheduled transatlantic jet service in 1958, and which aircraft did it utilize for this service?

ANSWERED (BOAC with the Comet 4, from LHR to IDL)

8. In the 1980s, this airline made headlines by becoming the launch customer for a groundbreaking aircraft known for its advanced composite materials and efficient design. Name the airline and the aircraft.

9. Which airline was the launch customer for the Boeing 727, and what was the aircraft's maiden flight route?

10. What was the first commercial aircraft to be entirely computer-designed, and which airline was the launch customer for this aircraft?

The desired answer is not the 777 or the Mercure (Dassault). It was a few years behind the latter.

11. Until I was around 12 (so the rough time frame is1975-87), my mom and I went from Boston to Pittsburgh almost every year. We flew BOS-PIT nonstop on 3 different airlines during that time frame, though 2 of them were effectively the same airline (i.e. just a rebrand or a perhaps a merger + rebranding) on 4 different a/c types. One of these airlines also operated flights between BOS and PIT that stopped in 2 different places (XXX and YYY), which were each close to “great circle” compliance, but if you tried to hit both on the same flight, you’d be zigzagging. A fourth airline entered our orbit on the same route in the early 80s, but didn’t offer through fares (e.g. BOS-ZZZ and ZZZ-PIT were sold separately, and my mom always paid in cash at the beginning of each segment, but there must have been other sales channels too). This airline was folded into airline #5, which did offer through fares, but everything else remained the same (i.e. airplanes and XXX) until the end of the decade. So, I’m looking for 5 airlines, 4 a/c types (subtypes might have been applicable in 2 cases, but I don’t know them), and XXX/YYY/ZZZ.

ANSWERED (refer to posts 29111-14)

12. Also during the same period, I flew between HYA and BOS every other weekend until my parents deemed I was old enough to take the bus instead. These flights were on 2 different airlines onboard 7 different a/c types. Several of the a/c types were common between these airlines, but in the case of the HYA-BOS route at the time, we’re looking for a 2 + 5 split. Please identify the airlines and the airplanes.
ANSWERED (Air New England: 1. Twin Otter, 2. FH-227; PBA: 3. DC3, 4. YS11, 5. Martin 4-0-4, 6. EMB-110 Bandeirante; 7. Cessna 402)
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 12:40 am
  #29124  
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Originally Posted by moondog
4. Which airline was the first to introduce in-flight entertainment systems on its aircraft, and what year did it occur?

The key term (in-flight entertainment systems) hasn't been defined with much precision or clarity.

Well, I've been sparring with my bot about its intended answer v TWA and it insists that "system" implies more than just handing out playing cards or showing movies, and that the first IFE system was introduced in 1971 by an airline that was based somewhere other than the US. When pressed to back up this claim, the questioner (and the guy in my company who is in charge of it) pretty much tells me it's common knowledge, and I haven't been able to find any solid evidence myself.
This could come down to a battle of semantics...

First: Inflight Entertainment

Does a movie shown in flight constitute "Inflight Entertainment"? To me at least, the answer is yes. albeit artificial entertainment as opposed to conversing with seatmate or enjoying the view from on high.

Second: What constitutes a "system" with regard to providing or showing a movie inflight?

Let's start with a definition of "System". The link below takes us to the Merriam Webster online dictionary definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/system

I am drawn to definition "D" as being the most relevant to a "film projection system" as would have been installed aboard an airliner in the 1960s. To wit:

A group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose
a telephone system
a heating system
a highway system
a computer system

Also, I cheated and did a bit of online research. It seems - as per Wikipedia - that the first in-flight movie was screened by Aeromarine Airways in 1921, showing a film called Howdy Chicago to passengers on a Felixstowe F.5 flying boat as it flew around Chicago. This was referenced via a book titled "A History of Inflight Entertainment" authored by a John Norman White in 2013.

The link below supports that assertion, along with TWA having been the first to air full length Hollywood feature films via a 75lb 16mm projector. Also noted is that the
first in-flight movie that was actually a Hollywood film, was "The Lost World", which aired in 1925 on an Imperial Airlines flight.

https://tedium.co/2020/06/19/in-flig...mpact-history/

After further enhancing the search with "1971", the only mention I could find - also via Wikipedia - was this:

"In 1971, TRANSCOM developed the 8mm film cassette. Flight attendants could now change movies in-flight and add short subject programming."

Well, to me at least, that's just a modification to - or improvement - to an already existing system.

Anyway, consider this just a bit more food for thought toward the ultimate answer...

Additionally, I would disagree with your colleague's assertion that this information - in particular the development of the 8mm cassette for inflight movies - is "common knowledge". I doubt even the most well read Jeopardy champion would be aware of such off the beaten path esoterica
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Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 31, 2024 at 12:49 am
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 1:41 pm
  #29125  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
This could come down to a battle of semantics...

First: Inflight Entertainment

Does a movie shown in flight constitute "Inflight Entertainment"? To me at least, the answer is yes. albeit artificial entertainment as opposed to conversing with seatmate or enjoying the view from on high.

Second: What constitutes a "system" with regard to providing or showing a movie inflight?

Let's start with a definition of "System". The link below takes us to the Merriam Webster online dictionary definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/system

I am drawn to definition "D" as being the most relevant to a "film projection system" as would have been installed aboard an airliner in the 1960s. To wit:

A group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose
a telephone system
a heating system
a highway system
a computer system

Also, I cheated and did a bit of online research. It seems - as per Wikipedia - that the first in-flight movie was screened by Aeromarine Airways in 1921, showing a film called Howdy Chicago to passengers on a Felixstowe F.5 flying boat as it flew around Chicago. This was referenced via a book titled "A History of Inflight Entertainment" authored by a John Norman White in 2013.

The link below supports that assertion, along with TWA having been the first to air full length Hollywood feature films via a 75lb 16mm projector. Also noted is that the
first in-flight movie that was actually a Hollywood film, was "The Lost World", which aired in 1925 on an Imperial Airlines flight.

https://tedium.co/2020/06/19/in-flig...mpact-history/

After further enhancing the search with "1971", the only mention I could find - also via Wikipedia - was this:

"In 1971, TRANSCOM developed the 8mm film cassette. Flight attendants could now change movies in-flight and add short subject programming."

Well, to me at least, that's just a modification to - or improvement - to an already existing system.

Anyway, consider this just a bit more food for thought toward the ultimate answer...

Additionally, I would disagree with your colleague's assertion that this information - in particular the development of the 8mm cassette for inflight movies - is "common knowledge". I doubt even the most well read Jeopardy champion would be aware of such off the beaten path esoterica
I think I might have misrepresented my colleague's assertion a bit, so let me try to provide some context. He is a Chinese guy who lives alone outside of a small city and is passionate about software engineering and hasn't been exposed to many environments in which supporting arguments (outside of math/science) with evidence, and the Chinese education system doesn't really excel in that area anyway (i.e. analytical thinking takes a back seat to rote learning...pros and cons to this, I suppose). Knowing this, I didn't try to beat him up about too hard about "common knowledge" (doing so would have been frustrating for me and likely triggered his temper). Rather, I simply explained to him that the "quizmaster agent" I created in his system was unable to provide a convincing answer to its own question, leaving the door open for him to blame me. His explanation was a bit too technical for me (made more challenging by the fact that I'm not a native Chinese speaker), but the gist of it was that, due to necessary down sampling, it wasn't going to give me anything close to the level of granularity that I deem acceptable, "common knowledge" simply means that it has picked up on enough trends to give it an arbitrary level of confidence, I'm welcome to retrain it on any data sets I please. While I wasn't happy with that, it is what it is. Furthermore, it is kind of my fault for trying to adapt his work for this niche project that is far outside of its wheelhouse.

Alas, I'm going to continue to think of other ways to learn more about this specific mystery. In case I haven't implied it yet, I'm not especially knowledgeable about IFE, so I'm still struggling with how to simply structure the inquiry, much like you've done above.

Before, I get any further into the weeds, I want to reveal the intended answer (Varig, 1971):

Definition of IFE Systems that I pried out of it (don't read too much into this because I got to this point AFTER the question was answered based on whatever pre-conceived definition it had been employing at the outset):
In-flight entertainment (IFE) systems refer to the early integrated entertainment platforms and services available to passengers during commercial air travel. These systems were introduced prior to modern concepts like on-demand entertainment and typically provided limited entertainment options, such as movies or music, through overhead projectors or individual screens located in the cabin. Passengers could access a predetermined selection of content provided by the airline, often in a scheduled format rather than on-demand. The introduction of IFE systems represented a significant advancement in passenger experience, offering a new form of entertainment and diversion during flights.
How Varig supposedly conforms with this
Varig's introduction of the first-ever in-flight entertainment (IFE) system in 1971 aligns with the provided definition of IFE systems. Here's how Varig's IFE system adhered to the definition:

Integrated Entertainment Platform: Varig's IFE system was an early integrated entertainment platform installed on its aircraft, providing passengers with access to entertainment options during their flights.

Limited Entertainment Options: The system offered limited entertainment options, such as movies or music, to passengers. These options were likely provided through overhead projectors or individual screens located in the cabin.

Predetermined Selection of Content: Passengers could access a predetermined selection of content provided by Varig. The airline likely curated a selection of movies or music for passengers to enjoy during their flights.

Scheduled Format: The content provided by Varig's IFE system was likely presented in a scheduled format, meaning that it was available to passengers at specific times during the flight rather than on-demand.

Advancement in Passenger Experience: The introduction of Varig's IFE system represented a significant advancement in the passenger experience, offering a new form of entertainment and diversion during flights.
I'm a little ashamed to show you that stuff because I haven't been able to find any support it whatsoever, but I've included mainly to demonstrate what I've been battling.

I need to head out now, so I'm closing out this installment here. Happy Easter, all!







​​​​​​​
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 11:10 pm
  #29126  
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Thanks, moondog

I am not blessed of enough intelligence to state without reservation that my interpretation of "Inflight Entertainment System" is the end all be all, so again, my post above yours is intended solely as additional points to consider in the conversation as whole.

Here's one more link addressing the subject:

https://imagikcorp.com/a-brief-histo...nment-systems/

Curious if any of our other participants have a say on this? Or perhaps they prefer to lower their window shades and partake of their own entertainment via an ipad or a good book...

Again, surprised no one ha stepped up on some of these, so thanks to a good wi-fi connection here in Nusa Dua, I'll give it a go -

9. Which airline was the launch customer for the Boeing 727, and what was the aircraft's maiden flight route?

I know Eastern was the launch customer for the 727 in 1963, but I'm not so sure on the route. I know it wasn't between New York and Miami, so ah'mon throw a dart in the dark here and go with Boston to Atlanta

Last edited by Seat 2A; Mar 31, 2024 at 11:33 pm
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Old Mar 31, 2024, 11:43 pm
  #29127  
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
9. Which airline was the launch customer for the Boeing 727, and what was the aircraft's maiden flight route?

I know Eastern was the launch customer for the 727 in 1963, but I'm not so sure on the route. I know it wasn't between New York and Miami, so ah'mon throw a dart in the dark here and go with Boston to Atlanta
9- Im going to weigh in with a technicality here

Eastern was the first to introduce the 727 into revenue service, but United was the launch customer in that they were the first to order and the first to take delivery; they also eventually received the first production jet (tabulation number E0001, tail number N7001U)
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Old Apr 2, 2024, 10:53 am
  #29128  
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This past Saturday we were sitting outside on our deck enjoying an excellent red wine from Paso Robles with good friends when I heard a turboprop aircraft approaching overhead. The twin engine propjet had just departed from LFT and was moving along quite smartly. It flew directly over our home and I wasn't sure what kind of airplane it was. At first I thought it might be a Swearingen Metro...but it appeared to be larger than a Metroliner. So Flight Aware to the rescue....

Well, it turned out the aircraft in question was a Saab 2000, registration N811BB. Here's a photo.....

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Mere...2000/7406607/L

The operator is a charter company by the name of Meregrass which is apparently based at a private airfield near Dublin, Texas. The Meregrass website states their Saab 2000 aircraft are configured with 30 seats (regional airline operators typically operated their Saab 2000s with 50 seats in sched pax service) which the company says provides just over five feet of legroom between seats. BTW, Meregrass also operates Dassault Falcon 900B business jets on charter services.

So here's a BONUS quiz question....

What U.S. based air carrier currently operates the Saab 2000 in scheduled passenger service? ANSWERED
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Last edited by jlemon; Apr 2, 2024 at 5:13 pm Reason: answer update
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Old Apr 2, 2024, 11:35 am
  #29129  
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saw one of those overhead our house a couple weeks ago, inbound to BFI from ANC
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Old Apr 2, 2024, 2:06 pm
  #29130  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
This past Saturday we were sitting outside on our deck enjoying an excellent red wine from Paso Robles with good friends when I heard a turboprop aircraft approaching overhead. The twin engine propjet had just departed from LFT and was moving along quite smartly. It flew directly over our home and I wasn't sure what kind of airplane it was. At first I thought it might be a Swearingen Metro...but it appeared to be larger than a Metroliner. So Flight Aware to the rescue....

Well, it turned out the aircraft in question was a Saab 2000, registration N811BB. Here's a photo.....

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Mere...2000/7406607/L

The operator is a charter company by the name of Meregrass which is apparently based at a private airfield near Dublin, Texas. The Meregrass website states their Saab 2000 aircraft are configured with 30 seats (regional airline operators typically operated their Saab 2000s with 50 seats in sched pax service) which the company says provides just over five feet of legroom between seats. BTW, Meregrass also operates Dassault Falcon 900B business jets on charter services.

So here's a BONUS quiz question....

What U.S. based air carrier currently operates the Saab 2000 in scheduled passenger service?
Penair was operating them until recently when they went out of business, not long after a crash in the Aleutians (was it Unalaska?). The pieces of that airline were picked up by Aleutian Airways, which I believe is still flying their Saab 2000s.
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