ozstamps

Avek00. You are digging that hole even deeper IMHO.

I have as posted, made 6 long hauls in United C class in recent weeks. And over 100 in recent years.

I think now, and have held the view for some years, that the C cabins of the United 747s are excellent and among the best any airline offers in 747s.

Parroting as FIRST HAND OPINION what you now "think" you have read others have said otherwise does not make that your opinion. It simply makes you a parrot - even IF you get it right. Which IMO you are not. And it is STILL hearsay. You have not by your own admission BEEN in a UA C cabin for 3 years so have no PERSONAL experience on this.

I have never flown Southwest. I would not go into the Southwest Forum and comment on how allegedly crappy their cabins are as I once read someone else post it. In law this is called hearsay and has no weight or credibility at all. (And it would greatly annoy those on the SW forum!)

So, here is my challenge to you, which I think will illustrate nicely most of the above. I will call your bluff, as I firmly believe it is baloney.

You state (again and again) there have been "numerous" comments about the state of the United 747 C class cabins made on these boards.

Can you please post just THREE such links right on this thread to support your assertion?

Can't be difficult? Otherwise I suggest you are 'guilty as charged'.

'Do we need a parrot on the Talkboard' might be some folks thoughts.

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[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 08-07-2003).]

ClueByFour

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre is not "controversial." From the flyertalk front page: "Just choose a forum and you can get to the business at hand: conversing about programs, how to make the most of your miles and points, general travel, airports, and dining."

One would assume, therefore, that the individual airline forums exist for the purpose of discussing the programs, how to make the most of your miles and points...." and things like that.

Following is a summary of every thread you happened to post in the United forum for about a month after your time-out. Feel free to take issue with the summaries, although I think a reasonable person will find my commentary accurate. 6 locked threads. Very little if any information about the actual frequent flyer program, or how to utilize miles and/or points. You went into a forum made up primarily of United flyers, and denigrated the airline while acting as a virtual cheerleader to CO. I'd like to konw how this squares with FT's purpose or mission in your mind.

These things, of course, brought the negative (and expected) reaction. I define this as trolling.

Now, I want to know if you continue to support this behavior, and if you feel that it good for the FT community? I want to know, if elected to the talkboard, if you will take action to quash this type of behavior, starting with square one?


Summary follows:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/019923.html --avek00 implies that UA should reward only it's "high revenue" fliers and that CO does not need to match since it's revenue picture is so much rosier. Implies that UA is a "dinosaur."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/019981.html --avek00 insinuates that United will change drastically or not make it out of Chapter 11. Later rails on UA's performance that brought it into Chapter 11. Moderator locks thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/019992.html --avek00 implies that the merged Varig/TAM entity will run off to Skyteam.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020005.html --avek00 implies that UA has no definitive plans for exiting bankruptcy.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020021.html --avek00 postulates that "other carriers" are set to invade ORD if/when UA goes under. Moderator locks thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../020021.html-- press release about UA's new boarding process. Moderator locks duplicate thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020093.html --avek00 states that until recently, "until perhaps very recently, UA (as a collective organization) was simply not focused on the customer."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020212.html --avek00 posts an article about a whistleblower at a UA maintenance base who claims pressure from UA to cut corners. Moderator locks thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020215.html --in response to a thread post that UA is going to offer inflight email, avek00 posts link to a CO press release that CO is going to offer inflight email. His lead in is "So as not to be outdone."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020234.html --avek00 implies that a UA employee posting about experiences at work could be terminated for doing so. Further implies that despite recieving OK from local management that it is not their call and that "Something like this should have been approved directly by senior folks in UAWHQ."Moderator locks thread.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020254.html --avek00 states that in a perfect world, status would be based exclusively on fare paid.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020266.html --avek00 advises a poster to take an award trip before Oct 31, because "Barring an unforseen circumstance, UAL should be able to tread water until that time."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020286.html --avek00 finds it "troubling" that UA's CEO and CFO have made slightly differing statements on the timeframe for UA's Chapter 11 emergence.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020304.html --avek00 tells one poster "No potential investor with half a brain would participate in a UAL restructuring plan that did not include a 'fresh start' equity structure. Without that investment, UAL would have no choice but to begin a liquidation."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum50/HTML/020502.html --In response to a poster who noted that a travel agent in TPE told them that UA was already "out of business," avek00 follows up with "Well, maybe the travel agent DID get it right, but is just a few months ahead of schedule..." Moderator locks thread.




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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

avek00

ClueByFour:

I'm afraid that you are confusing the right to express dissenting and critical views with ad hominem attacks, which is the REAL problem.

There's no question that I have some views of United which go against the prevailing opinions on the United forum. However, expressing those views should in no way be equated with trolling. What IS trolling, however, is the efforts of a select few FTers to poison or otherwise derail nearly every thread that you listed.

I hope that should I be elected to the TalkBoard, I can count upon your leadership as a moderator to reign in the frequent personal attackers once and for all.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

avek00

1. You are hereby fired as President of my Fan Club.

2. There is no need for me to present evidence as the burden in my country (and yours) is on the ACCUSER. Therefore, in the absence of any evidence on YOUR (i.e., the accuser's) part, I must be found not guilty as a matter of law.

ozstamps

Darn. And I just printed those 50,000 Campaign Buttons.

1. OK. I will sue for severance pay then. Is legal age jurisdiction in US courts 18 or 21 .... that might affect my chances of mounting a case I guess?

2. This is the 'Court Of Public Opinion' avek00. And you just lost hands down IMO. It is clear to me that you have not found a single thread to trot out to support your parrotlike fiction. Thank you for demonstrating that so rapidly.

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[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 08-07-2003).]

avek00

Given that you are the ONLY person complaining about this, it seems that the court of public opinion on this issue is comprised of, well, just you.

[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 08-07-2003).]

ozstamps

Not 'some' views. ALL your views. If you post pure fantasy and made up alleged new policies and comments about United it IS 'Trolling' IMO avek00.

That bit you do not seem to get clear in your head.

Oh ... as to your last (edited) post here - if you seriously believe others apart from me have not asked you to "put up or shut up" re posting fantasy, your memory clearly is as accurate as your opinion of the United 747 C class seats.

JonNYC

Many member of the AA forum have politely-- and not so politely-- asked Avek to refrain from his constant trolling, rumor-mongering and infantile provocation. Every time he is confronted about his wrong and unsubstantiated "inside information" he fades back into the woodwork only to reappear with even more ridiculous non-information the next time. It is an endless cycle and it is a cancer on FT, IMHO.

His recent offer to stop trolling the AA forum if we voted for him was a new low-- not to say it was surprising in the least.

ClueByFour

No, I'm afraid you are trying to blur the dicussion. Again.

The problem is not ad hominem attacks. They are prompted by the initial troll. The purpose of a troll, after all, is to provoke such things.

Again, you are blatently misrepresenting the situation, but I'll roll with it.

Since you have refused to address the questions I've raised, I will rephrase in the hopes of getting a straight answer:

Do you feel that your previous/current style of posting material that does nothing to contribute to the stated mission of Flyertalk (..." the business at hand: conversing about programs, how to make the most of your miles and points"...) should be advocated by a talkboard member, especially in light of the fact that it generally invites a very natural and expected reaction that detracts from the stated purpose of Flyertalk?

Alas, it's not about me. I'm not a candidate for Talkboard. You are, and it's my position that a candidate should answer questions directly posed to him/her (in leiu of doing everything possible to duck the question, re-focus attention on an ancillary issue, re-focus attention on another individual, etc). Failure to do so will simply resonate with folks who vote. It's your choice.


So that you are aware of my position, the forum that I moderate has perhaps the fewest numbers of trolls of any airline forum on Flyertalk. It also has a very, very low number of personal attacks. This is not a coincidence.



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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

ClueByFour

You know, this is kind of disgusting:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum71/HTML/017595.html

In essence, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, Avek pledged to not post on the AA Forum if elected.

Candidate Avek:

Might you explain to the "body politic" your motivation for this offer? And, can we expect any other offers of the nature and to which forums? Moreover, might you share with us why you feel that banishment would actually draw votes?

I think that C17PSGR said it best. I want to know what your position is on following this advice:



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Saving the world, one clue at a time.

ozstamps

Thanks for the link ClueByFour. I had not seen it until a few minutes ahgo.

IMO it is worse than "disgusting". It is the lowest and saddest and most desperate thing I have seen avek00 post anywhere on FT, (apart from the Moderator removed Betty Ford Clinic slur) SINCE he admitted to phoning the United 1K line, passing himself off as a 1K and blabbing to them how wonderful and popular he thought the terrible SWU changes were earlier this year. And allowing them to pass his "positive" comments on to the brass. THAT remains the most stupid and reckless thing I have ever seen any FlyerTalker admit to doing.

Avek00 .. you are not ONLY the weakest link, you surely are the missing link.



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~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

LatteSeattle1K

Keep up the good work of all these nice posts, avek! You make it so much easier for the other candidates to gain votes.

By the way, when you make a commitment to cease posting on all FlyerTalk forums if elected to the TalkBoard, I shall vote for you.

Do we have a deal?

Axey

Hrm.. I have an idea. I say everyone vote for Avek, then call on him to ban himself from FlyerTalk for having violated his own quasi "rule" above.

Seriously Avek, I don't see how you even running for TB is "good for the community." Like it or not, you've gained a hard-to-shake reputation here, and it seems like your "controversial" threads almost always end up in problems. As I've said in the past -- You can't expect people to simply shrugg off your "controversial" threads. If you don't want the resulting problems, don't start them in the first place. Problem solved.

chemist661

I agree with ozstamps. The post by Avek00 in the AA forum was not appropriate IMHO. A poster should show courtesy & moderation. It is not appropriate IMHO to say that "I will stop posting if he gets the Talkboard position." I don't say too much on this board, however, IMHO Avek00 says things that seem not completely factual.(my opinion) Maybe being more positive & giving first hand information about an airline would go a long way. It is best if you document your information. Although posters are free to post in other forums, it would be of great benefit to other FTer's to mainly post in areas where one has the most expertise.

Although I cross post in other airline forums (NW,LH,DL,QF,AA,CO,etc), I have flown these airlines recently. I try to be specific on my answer/questions of these airlines. I will say that having flown CO last month & in CO BF a couple of years ago, seat 15A/B on a UA 747 in intl Business class was far superior to the CO BF seat IMHO. The 747 business seat was very nice! Not run down as Avek00 claims it to be. I do not claim to be as qualified to make comment as the other UA 1K fliers who fly much more than I do. (I am a UA 1K so I feel I have some qualification to comment on UA).

transpac

Follow this link to be truly disgusted...

avek00's idea of humor