China Airlines announces nonstop TPE- ONT (Ontario)
Dec 2, 2018, 11:56 am
#211
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
As far as JFK is going, I think they are well situated with their 1 daily flight. These ultra long flights are not much more easy for them to sell.
Dec 2, 2018, 4:03 pm
#212
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LAX, MEX, MLM, ONT, SAL
Programs: DL Silver Medallion
Posts: 127
Just wanted to pass some interesting info though as always take it with a grain of salt. OIAA set up a plane spotter Facebook page were people post pictures of planes arriving or departing ONT. Most of the members including myself are plane spotters or actual workers at ONT(loaders, ramp agents etc).
One of the ramp agents who serviced the 77W and now the A350 posted a photo of the A350 as the cater's loaded it. A new member asked why did CI change the flight to night time since they wanted to fly to Manilla from ONT to avoid the LAX clusterf$%^, though didn't due to long the layover in TPE, and flew PAL instead. Since the ramp agent was busy, I answered the question for him with what we know (daytime loads, connections to greater Asia). Now, with the short layover, they're going to try and take the flight. The ramp agent later on responded to him agreeing with the points I stated.
Though, the ramp agent gave us a tidbit on what CI and OIAA are expecting of this route. He didn't delve into specifics since OIAA authority is overlooking the page, though was at liberty to say that both parties are striving for a 100% load factor, though see 80% or more load factor as a win for both parties. So, take this information as you see fit.
One of the ramp agents who serviced the 77W and now the A350 posted a photo of the A350 as the cater's loaded it. A new member asked why did CI change the flight to night time since they wanted to fly to Manilla from ONT to avoid the LAX clusterf$%^, though didn't due to long the layover in TPE, and flew PAL instead. Since the ramp agent was busy, I answered the question for him with what we know (daytime loads, connections to greater Asia). Now, with the short layover, they're going to try and take the flight. The ramp agent later on responded to him agreeing with the points I stated.
Though, the ramp agent gave us a tidbit on what CI and OIAA are expecting of this route. He didn't delve into specifics since OIAA authority is overlooking the page, though was at liberty to say that both parties are striving for a 100% load factor, though see 80% or more load factor as a win for both parties. So, take this information as you see fit.
Dec 2, 2018, 10:36 pm
#213
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Just wanted to pass some interesting info though as always take it with a grain of salt. OIAA set up a plane spotter Facebook page were people post pictures of planes arriving or departing ONT. Most of the members including myself are plane spotters or actual workers at ONT(loaders, ramp agents etc).
One of the ramp agents who serviced the 77W and now the A350 posted a photo of the A350 as the cater's loaded it. A new member asked why did CI change the flight to night time since they wanted to fly to Manilla from ONT to avoid the LAX clusterf$%^, though didn't due to long the layover in TPE, and flew PAL instead. Since the ramp agent was busy, I answered the question for him with what we know (daytime loads, connections to greater Asia). Now, with the short layover, they're going to try and take the flight. The ramp agent later on responded to him agreeing with the points I stated.
Though, the ramp agent gave us a tidbit on what CI and OIAA are expecting of this route. He didn't delve into specifics since OIAA authority is overlooking the page, though was at liberty to say that both parties are striving for a 100% load factor, though see 80% or more load factor as a win for both parties. So, take this information as you see fit.
One of the ramp agents who serviced the 77W and now the A350 posted a photo of the A350 as the cater's loaded it. A new member asked why did CI change the flight to night time since they wanted to fly to Manilla from ONT to avoid the LAX clusterf$%^, though didn't due to long the layover in TPE, and flew PAL instead. Since the ramp agent was busy, I answered the question for him with what we know (daytime loads, connections to greater Asia). Now, with the short layover, they're going to try and take the flight. The ramp agent later on responded to him agreeing with the points I stated.
Though, the ramp agent gave us a tidbit on what CI and OIAA are expecting of this route. He didn't delve into specifics since OIAA authority is overlooking the page, though was at liberty to say that both parties are striving for a 100% load factor, though see 80% or more load factor as a win for both parties. So, take this information as you see fit.
Dec 2, 2018, 11:12 pm
#214
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LAX, MEX, MLM, ONT, SAL
Programs: DL Silver Medallion
Posts: 127
For the loads, I think what we saw in October's load % is what ONT will output from now on when going daily with the A350.
For example, for December I'm expecting 76 to 82% load factor at ONT after having checked the seating loads for CI 23/CI 24 at Expert flyer, and noticed the loads/seating for CI 23 for the first week of Dec being abysmal. Though, it somewhat similar with CI 7 at LAX though not as bad as ONT. Business picks up again for both after Dec 8th and goes full steam to mid January.
Dec 2, 2018, 11:37 pm
#215
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
I smiled when he mentioned that because its highly improbable, especially at ONT. That's why I hope it was his wish not CI, because if it was CI officials telling ONT staff that, I'd tell them, like no man. That's not happening. I didn't want to debate him or cause any issues that would get me banned from the group, so left that alone. Though, at least I'm passing down what CI and OIAA might be telling them.
For the loads, I think what we saw in October's load % is what ONT will output from now on when going daily with the A350.
For example, for December I'm expecting 76 to 82% load factor at ONT after having checked the seating loads for CI 23/CI 24 at Expert flyer, and noticed the loads/seating for CI 23 for the first week of Dec being abysmal. Though, it somewhat similar with CI 7 at LAX though not as bad as ONT. Business picks up again for both after Dec 8th and goes full steam to mid January.
For the loads, I think what we saw in October's load % is what ONT will output from now on when going daily with the A350.
For example, for December I'm expecting 76 to 82% load factor at ONT after having checked the seating loads for CI 23/CI 24 at Expert flyer, and noticed the loads/seating for CI 23 for the first week of Dec being abysmal. Though, it somewhat similar with CI 7 at LAX though not as bad as ONT. Business picks up again for both after Dec 8th and goes full steam to mid January.
First part of December has historically been abysmal as holiday travelers amass during the Christmas/New Year season instead.
Dec 3, 2018, 7:53 am
#216
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
Erm, what? I'm not sure why you quoted me on this but...
Currently the Italian bilateral has rights for BR (2 weekly), but BR is not utilizing it, so there are rights for BR to utilize. They can also apply the rights that CI is not using, but they did not.
When CI stopped operating the direct flight for London, BR was also allowed to ask for the rights (that was numerous years). They did not.
Also, there are lots of rights to be utilized in Oceania, but BR only kept Brisbane.
I am not sure why you are talking about CI's accident or how the Taiwanese feel, that is not the topic we are discussing here. Also, we never said anything about BR's loading is not good for SFO (but this specific month is actually not good) or if they are more expensive or cheaper than CI.
Currently the Italian bilateral has rights for BR (2 weekly), but BR is not utilizing it, so there are rights for BR to utilize. They can also apply the rights that CI is not using, but they did not.
When CI stopped operating the direct flight for London, BR was also allowed to ask for the rights (that was numerous years). They did not.
Also, there are lots of rights to be utilized in Oceania, but BR only kept Brisbane.
I am not sure why you are talking about CI's accident or how the Taiwanese feel, that is not the topic we are discussing here. Also, we never said anything about BR's loading is not good for SFO (but this specific month is actually not good) or if they are more expensive or cheaper than CI.
I don’t think CI and BR has been trying to avoid each other. Taiwan simply doesn’t have that many route authority to allocate to two airlines.
Dec 3, 2018, 8:58 am
#217
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,044
Dec 3, 2018, 12:56 pm
#218
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
Though, the ramp agent gave us a tidbit on what CI and OIAA are expecting of this route. He didn't delve into specifics since OIAA authority is overlooking the page, though was at liberty to say that both parties are striving for a 100% load factor, though see 80% or more load factor as a win for both parties. So, take this information as you see fit.
My point is that even if CI wants to try go after BR. CI has never been able to do anything against BR head to head. SFO and LAX are good example where CI has not done well even with newer fleet now.
I don’t think CI and BR has been trying to avoid each other. Taiwan simply doesn’t have that many route authority to allocate to two airlines.
I don’t think CI and BR has been trying to avoid each other. Taiwan simply doesn’t have that many route authority to allocate to two airlines.
Again, not sure where you are coming from. This has nothing to do with ONT or the LAX region, so not sure why you have to voice it in this thread.
To give input on your comments: CI isn't doing so well head to head in North America (though I think their YVR operation is better), but CI is doing well in many other regions except probably Southeast Asia. Though, I am not sure your examples really worked. I don't see CI actually tried in either LAX or SFO. SEA might be a better example in the past. For SFO, that new 2-3 weekly lasted only a few months before it got pulled for Oceania once enough planes are ready to go. Then for LAX, they have maintained the 12-14 weekly for god knows how long. Nothing really changed with the new planes, so I don't think it proves anything of CI is going to fail. CI 27/8 only happened once in a blue moon when there is overflown in number of passengers and now is the flight # for Koror.
To me CI is just trying to keep it's current passengers and yields in North America. They are not venturing into anything except this ONT flight, which is why a thread is opened. I think BR is already feeling there are excess capacity in North America, so they are not adding much here (and now challenging CI on VIE and NGO next) except SEA seasonal boost.
Dec 3, 2018, 1:49 pm
#219
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Plat, DL, AS, UA, IHG Plat
Posts: 2,407
Dec 3, 2018, 3:20 pm
#220
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Striving for 100% load factor is not really wrong. If it really gets to that point on the 359, CI will just sub in 77W and upgrade some Economy passengers to Premium Economy (or oversell PY).
Again, not sure where you are coming from. This has nothing to do with ONT or the LAX region, so not sure why you have to voice it in this thread.
To give input on your comments: CI isn't doing so well head to head in North America (though I think their YVR operation is better), but CI is doing well in many other regions except probably Southeast Asia. Though, I am not sure your examples really worked. I don't see CI actually tried in either LAX or SFO. SEA might be a better example in the past. For SFO, that new 2-3 weekly lasted only a few months before it got pulled for Oceania once enough planes are ready to go. Then for LAX, they have maintained the 12-14 weekly for god knows how long. Nothing really changed with the new planes, so I don't think it proves anything of CI is going to fail. CI 27/8 only happened once in a blue moon when there is overflown in number of passengers and now is the flight # for Koror.
To me CI is just trying to keep it's current passengers and yields in North America. They are not venturing into anything except this ONT flight, which is why a thread is opened. I think BR is already feeling there are excess capacity in North America, so they are not adding much here (and now challenging CI on VIE and NGO next) except SEA seasonal boost.
Again, not sure where you are coming from. This has nothing to do with ONT or the LAX region, so not sure why you have to voice it in this thread.
To give input on your comments: CI isn't doing so well head to head in North America (though I think their YVR operation is better), but CI is doing well in many other regions except probably Southeast Asia. Though, I am not sure your examples really worked. I don't see CI actually tried in either LAX or SFO. SEA might be a better example in the past. For SFO, that new 2-3 weekly lasted only a few months before it got pulled for Oceania once enough planes are ready to go. Then for LAX, they have maintained the 12-14 weekly for god knows how long. Nothing really changed with the new planes, so I don't think it proves anything of CI is going to fail. CI 27/8 only happened once in a blue moon when there is overflown in number of passengers and now is the flight # for Koror.
To me CI is just trying to keep it's current passengers and yields in North America. They are not venturing into anything except this ONT flight, which is why a thread is opened. I think BR is already feeling there are excess capacity in North America, so they are not adding much here (and now challenging CI on VIE and NGO next) except SEA seasonal boost.
Dec 4, 2018, 9:55 am
#222
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CAN, LAX, TPE
Programs: AA, AS, CI, DL, UA
Posts: 2,898
No airline strives for 100%. Prior to the start of a route, yield and load predictions will be made, and their goals are off of those numbers. Simply planning for 100% is delusional and represents a lack of knowledge/experience in the field. I highly doubt a CI exec. had 100% in mind(maybe OIAA) as they all are pretty experienced with the markets.
Do remember that when a flight has taken off, every empty seat can no longer generate revenue, hence dead cost (so airlines will typically try to fill the plane as much as possible). This is not like a typical shop where the inventory can be kept for the next sale, airline industry does not work like that.
Dec 5, 2018, 6:33 pm
#224
Join Date: May 2018
Location: LAX, MEX, MLM, ONT, SAL
Programs: DL Silver Medallion
Posts: 127
CI 24 - Economy 12/3
Like I've mentioned before, the numbers for CI 23 are going to be on the low side due to like Hayzel and Coolfish have mentioned, leaving it for closer to Christmas and New Years.
However, CI 24 is always coming in with packed flights and December is no exception from what I've captured from Expert Flyer. Hopefully, CI 24's numbers help boost those final monthly load percentage numbers for December.
Dec 5, 2018, 11:35 pm
#225
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,188
He was right. Ever since they switched to nights, I've been monitoring these flights, and here's the seating/load going into check in for CI 24 for 12/3
CI 24 - Economy 12/3
Like I've mentioned before, the numbers for CI 23 are going to be on the low side due to like Hayzel and Coolfish have mentioned, leaving it for closer to Christmas and New Years.
However, CI 24 is always coming in with packed flights and December is no exception from what I've captured from Expert Flyer. Hopefully, CI 24's numbers help boost those final monthly load percentage numbers for December.
CI 24 - Economy 12/3
Like I've mentioned before, the numbers for CI 23 are going to be on the low side due to like Hayzel and Coolfish have mentioned, leaving it for closer to Christmas and New Years.
However, CI 24 is always coming in with packed flights and December is no exception from what I've captured from Expert Flyer. Hopefully, CI 24's numbers help boost those final monthly load percentage numbers for December.
Last edited by Mama; Dec 5, 2018 at 11:59 pm