26volt

Wow! Now, that you mention that. That's horrible!

ONT is primed for growth since they have large chunk of space they could expand the airport. The officials at ONT have big plans for the airport, and their doing their part and they've regained JetBlue with their JFK flights, Frontier with their MCO flights, and just last week Delta with their ATL flights, and in the International side, they're expecting CI to push on their end to get people to the airport since one of their objectives is to expand Terminal 2 to include three wide body gates, FIS, Duty Free Shops, and a lounge similar to LAX's with a balcony overlooking the tarmac, and the only way this could happen is if CI is successful at ONT, and from there other airlines follow CI lead, and move one of their flights from LAX to ONT. Though, if CI is not bothering to promote the flight through other venues sans the ethnic communities in SGV, no wonder with the abyssal numbers.

Is there anyway that someone can communicate with the sales department at CI, and give them some feedback since from what you've mentioned, they're truly screwing up.

bocastephen

tris06

Wow, hard to believe there has been 166 posts mostly on Just 1 route. Shows how almost all the flyertalk postering for CI are based in the LAX area.

I think there are plenty of promotions going on when I look at the US based website. Not sure CI is chasing after the lower yielding passengers that other airlines may chase. With the A350 it is even less likely CI will need to fill up the plane with low yielding passengers. Also it is quite common for B787 routes to have less need to put seats up at major discounts.

coolfish1103

It could have just been upgrades from PY using miles. Hard to tell if they are really paid Business pax.

CI opened this route specifically targeting local Taiwanese, so they probably never thought about other markets. The only market the originally intended to sell beyond TPE were just HKG and BKK, and both arrive at awful hours. Now, they have the transit options to many different destinations, so that should ease up the Y loads.

Well, the main problem was the timing of the flight, not really the 77W. It was just wrong having no feeds on both sides... and yes, going daily from the start is also a bit too ambitious.

Now we will see if ONT will cannibalize CI's LAX flight since they both depart at evenings from the LA region, or the damage would be forwarded to BR. To be honest I think CI can move the Taiwan departure time 1-2 hours later. The 6 pm flight now does not allow many pax to take off from work and get on the flight. However, the timing is probably to keep LAX at bay.

26volt

Go for it and ask what type of promoting they've done besides targeting the ethnic communities.

26volt

I hope CI is being flexible with their frequencies and go back to five days after the holidays to keep those higher load % and not get burned like it did earlier this year.

From what I've noticed on Expert Flyer regarding Business and PY, they quickly fill up - and this is regards for ONT with the A350.

Its only the Y section that begins to fill up in the last few days before departure and this is with LAX and ONT. Most nights both flights leave 'full' to TPE, though with a slight advantage to LAX. So, in my point of view the fears of some that ONT was going to cannibalize LAX didn't occurred.

Though, I agree that perhaps BR is the one taking the damage from the ONT flight. Its ironic if this is what's actually occurring since some people on BR's Facebook page were asking why weren't they moving one of their flights to ONT while BR were proudly promoting their three daily flights from LAX. Some were like us debating load factors or BR has already done its research and didn't find ONT viable, while other parties mentioned, then why did CI risk it and opening at ONT. That gave me a good laugh.

Regarding the inbound from TPE, I agree they should move the flight to a later time since some of the days, the flight comes full, while others like today (Nov 2) Y section was virtually empty while PY and Business were packed. Though, you have a point CI might of kept this flight at a earlier time not to cannibalize from LAX.

26volt

I think its merited since CI took a big risk on moving one of their flights to ONT. I'll give CI props for trying to make ONT work even if they fail in the end.

I agree. After the flight was moved to nights, CI nixed their cheapo creepo super saver pricing for both ONT and LAX flights, and now are selling their tickets at equal pricing and starting with their Eco Saver and up.

coolfish1103

Just personally flown this route, I find the airport infrastructure not up to par for an international flight this size (and it's not even 77W).

Seats occupied and lines lined can go hoarding about 3 gates worth of space, ONT is definitely not designed for a international service that has a large plane. Maybe a 738/321 to Canada, Mexico or Central America.

The lounge is awful and you have to ask for your drinks. It's like they are preventing people from taking a bunch of soda/wine etc. The only hot food there is instant noodle. Seating is very little, like 40 seats max and not every seat has a table. The new escape lounge suppose to open late 2018 is still not open.

On board service is okay except that I was offered crackers rather than real food in J 90 minutes before breakfast served. I find that FA lazy not wanting to serve me the croissant or noodles that's on the menu by saying we will serve breakfast soon, though in reality I was served like 120 minutes later because I was seated in the last row.

26volt

That's pretty much what I assumed was happening. I've passed through ONT and always thought how are they pulling this off compared to what is seen in LAX at TBIT. Since the waiting areas for GATE 212/213 is quite small compared to the wide waiting areas at TBIT. Whatever cubicle they had for shoppes and converted to mini lounge was not going to be enough.

In personal opinion they should had gone ahead, and risk failure it by first building that T2 extension mentioned in the newspapers with the three to four wide body gates, duty free shops, and lounge with the balcony overlooking the runaway. Then, have CI and whatever Airline come in and start operations. Though, ONT jumped the gun.

coolfish1103

ONT probably didn't want to risk the $ without actually having someone operate the route first. Now CI is in, they have a reason to build these...? They probably need another Asian carrier to fly here to get that extension started... right now they will probably just do whatever there is. Transportation to there is really a breeze though, no one in the TSA line, check in wait is okay, and the time to airport was like 15 min.

The flight I flew was full, so I believe the time change and plane shrink worked. Not sure about CI 24 cause I did not fly that leg.

26volt

That's one of perks of ONT, no drama with parking, or holoring people making a scene at the counter, or being stuck at the TSA lines.

I think they saw what happened at SBD (San Bernardino International) and didn't want to risk it. SBD built small four to five gate terminal and next to it, a state of the art International arrivals, though no one risked going there. Up to this day, no one has gone there to set up operations. UPS and FED EX use the airport for Cargo and Boeing to test their aircraft. Y4 attempted to use the terminal, though, had issues with CBP. They scrapped the route, and went daily from three days they were originally at ONT. Now, only executives who fly from overseas use the facilities which in my point of view is a waste.

I agree that they might need someone else in-conjunction with CI to help start the expansion. Several months back on airliners.net someone there mentioned about a second Asian airline perhaps MU wanting to set up operations at ONT. Though, nothing occurred or it was just made up bs. The only concrete thing that I saw a month back was in ONT's social media were someone from the Airport Authority was visiting Canada. Perhaps they're trying to lure WestJet or Air Canada to start operations at ONT.

Glad to hear the time swap, and aircraft switch worked for the outbound to TPE.

I've been checking Expert Flyer how both flights are doing for December, the first week and half, CI 23 is rather a ghost town. Its a similar story with CI 7 though with difference four of their flights have their 77W half full. I notice after the 9th both pick up again for Christmas break and all the way to the second week of January.

moondog

I'm reminded of the big bucks Pittsburgh spent to give US a nice home, and later AA in San Jose.

1kBill

I believe the space they are using used to be an Applebee's restaurant. I looked at the space a few months ago when I was departing from ONT on a domestic flight and it looked ... awkward. However, unlike LAX, ONT is usually not an airport that you need to leave hours ahead of time just to ensure that you might get there so you can make your flight, so maybe the best option is to arrive at the last few possible minutes.

HkCaGu

The only other Asian carriers operating their own multiple flights per day from LAX would probably be MU-PVG, CX-HKG, BR-TPE and CA-PEK. Not sure if OZ/KE have enough immigrant population, although a Korean-born lady has just been elected to Congress.

bocastephen

The whole point of using ONT is convenience, not for pretty lounges and spending hours in the airport waiting for your flight. If possible, check-in online, get the airport 45 mins or so before boarding, breeze through TSA screening with almost no line, and get to the gate a few minutes before boarding. ONT makes flying to TPE no worse or more stressful than flying to Denver.

I just flew BR ex-LAX last month - 30 minutes on the rental car bus getting through the terminal traffic (we ended up getting off 2 stops early and just walking), arrived at the terminal 2+ hours before boarding, treaded through a mass of people to get check-in done, and TSA security without pre-check was easily 45 minutes going back and forth through about 8 different lanes before getting to the x-ray.

By time we arrived at the *A Lounge, we were exhausted, frustrated, annoyed and completely stressed out. I don't need that crap from LAX, I DO need BR to move one of their flights over to ONT asap.

These empty flights are not a market or airport issue, they are a marketing incompetence issue - everyone who lives in Southern California east of the 605 is going to prefer ONT over LAX - this flight was an easy win for CI, they are just screwing it up with bad marketing, and they started the route off with the wrong flight times.