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-   -   Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/983365-changes-xonex-rule-sheet.html)

anabolism Sep 8, 2014 12:48 pm


Originally Posted by danger (Post 23491805)
BEY is out as I have been to TLV with this passport and they don't admit people with Israeli stamps.

How long ago did you visit TLV? I went last year and they no longer stamp passports, instead they scan the passport and give you a credit-card-sized piece of paper that has the passport scan and the date of entry and the validation period. (I also went the year before that, and they did stamp passports.)

Perhaps you want to end in TLV? It's one of the longer ex-LHR flights on BA that's still within the continent.

danger Sep 8, 2014 10:23 pm


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 23493882)
Perhaps my post was too sharp. My understanding is that the tour companies can help you "find a group" and then set up the visa for you. If you still want to visit. :)

No, no. My post was misleading and you were right to correct it.


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 23493882)
There is definitely a 72 hour transit visa available, which permits you to leave the airport. An Australian shouldn't have any problem getting such a visa, at least no more than anyone else (except for the Israeli stamp—don't they do those on detachable paper now?).

I'm now regretting cancelling my BRG Hyatt reservation in JED. However, I think my issue with JED has now become a matter of the EY schedule change on my AA award. I can no longer make the connection at AUH for the onward flight to PEK, meaning I would need to overnight in AUH, thereby losing another night of travel. As a result, I think JED may have to be struck from the list of options.

I have heard that Israel does do some kind of off-passport stamp these days but I went to TLV in December 2010 and there's a great big red stamp noting such in my passport.


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 23493882)
Look it might be a problem, or it might not. However, Oman is also a great place to visit and it won't be a problem there.

I've had another quick look at Oman. There was no mention of an Israeli stamp being an issue. The downside is the flight from LHR arrives at close to 10pm and the only flight I could get with EY would leave at 11am on the second day, meaning only one full day in MCT which may well be a waste. But still, it's something to look at.


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 23493882)
I'm not sure what you mean. You can change the ticket at any time, you don't have to wait in between flown sectors. Unless you paid UK Air Passenger Duty or airport service fees before they went up last year and you want to avoid paying the difference?

However, others here think that only the changed coupons—not the entire fare component—will be recalculated, so I might be wrong on that score anyway.

I read your post to suggest that if I was to make the change now, with about six sectors to go, the taxes would be reassessed not only on LHR-wherever but also on all the unflown sectors. I was speculating that taxes would have risen ticketing. However, I'll still ask the RTW desk what I'll be up for if I was to make the change now. Of course, I need to determine a destination first! I paid the UK APD in April this year.


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 23494216)
How long ago did you visit TLV? I went last year and they no longer stamp passports, instead they scan the passport and give you a credit-card-sized piece of paper that has the passport scan and the date of entry and the validation period. (I also went the year before that, and they did stamp passports.)

Perhaps you want to end in TLV? It's one of the longer ex-LHR flights on BA that's still within the continent.

I was in TLV in 2010 and have a stamp to show the world. I have no real desire to go back to TLV and even if I did I would come unstuck with my award connection to AUH - EY does not fly to TLV.

At this stage I think my options are MCT and KWI. I could also avoid much of the drama and simply spend the two nights in London instead of JED, then just fly to DOH or DXB and go from there.

Many thanks for all the tips and advice.

danger Sep 11, 2014 10:40 pm

Firstly, a big apology. I have posted my recent query in the wrong thread. They should have been in the FAQ thread. That's a big mistake on part. It's a bug-bear of mine when threads go off-topic and now I've done it. I've alerted the moderators and asked that my post and everyone's advice be moved to the FAQ thread. Until that happens . . .

Secondly, I've managed to speak to the AA RTW desk.

In addition to the USD125 re-route fee I'd be up for and additional USD674.94 in taxes for KWI which seems huge.

Two important points. First, my ticket involved an involuntary re-route that resulted in CX becoming involved with my AA ticket. As a result, AA can't see that I've actually paid the UK APD or whatever the appropriate taxes are for a stopover in LHR, rather than a transit. Therefore, the above amounts included "about $300" for these UK taxes that I have actually paid. But even at about USD370 the taxes for KWI seem ridiculous. But, second, as Calchas suggested, AA said the taxes are re-assessed on all remaining unflown sectors, not just the one final sector I'm flying. Therefore, maybe the USD370-odd is not just KWI taxes but increased taxes on the five remaining sectors I have.

I was on the phone to AA for well over an hour and that's with my call initially being answered very quickly. The rates desk clearly has a complicated job. The RTW agent I spoke with was kind of reluctant to get me "quotes" on the taxes and I can see why. That said, it would be stupid of AA or any airline to expect a passenger with flexible plans to just say 'Go with x city, whatever the taxes are, and I'll pay them'. I have a choice of a few cities so I'm going to favour one with low taxes.

Finally, while waiting for the RTW desk to contact the rates desk I looked up KWI on Wikivoyage. In big letters: "Entry will be refused to citizens of Israel and to those who show stamps and/or visas from Israel". However, I called the Kuwait Embassy in Canberra this morning and the lady I spoke with says it's no issue for an Australian passport holder. I would feel better if that was written somewhere so I'll have a look in the trip report thread.

pandaperth Sep 11, 2014 11:52 pm


Originally Posted by danger (Post 23513770)
In addition to the USD125 re-route fee I'd be up for and additional USD674.94 in taxes for KWI which seems huge.

Yes that certainly does seem huge

Two important points. First, my ticket involved an involuntary re-route that resulted in CX becoming involved with my AA ticket. As a result, AA can't see that I've actually paid the UK APD or whatever the appropriate taxes are for a stopover in LHR, rather than a transit. Therefore, the above amounts included "about $300" for these UK taxes that I have actually paid. But even at about USD370 the taxes for KWI seem ridiculous.
Perhaps you should get CX to do the re-route?
On itasofware there are NO differences in taxes and surcharges between flying LHR-JED and LHR-KWI.
Both have UK-APD of GBP138, UK-PSC of GBP44.96 and BA-YQ of GBP159.50.
So a total of GBP342.46 (approx USD556)
(note: I've assumed you're travelling in a premium cabin and so do not get the 50% discount on APD that cattle class pax get)

But, second, as Calchas suggested, AA said the taxes are re-assessed on all remaining unflown sectors, not just the one final sector I'm flying. Therefore, maybe the USD370-odd is not just KWI taxes but increased taxes on the five remaining sectors I have.
Interesting to know
Personally, I am not aware of any recent significant changes in taxes
Or of significant changes in exchange rates, which might? impact the total taxes when expressed in USD

Finally, while waiting for the RTW desk to contact the rates desk I looked up KWI on Wikivoyage. In big letters: "Entry will be refused to citizens of Israel and to those who show stamps and/or visas from Israel". However, I called the Kuwait Embassy in Canberra this morning and the lady I spoke with says it's no issue for an Australian passport holder. I would feel better if that was written somewhere so I'll have a look in the trip report thread.
I've just done some checking in EF
For Australian, UK and US passport holders there is no mention of Israeli stamps
Whereas for Israeli passport holders, it states "Admission and transit is refused to holders of Israeli travel document(s), even if not leaving the aircraft and proceeding by the same flight."

danger Sep 12, 2014 4:30 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 23513932)
Perhaps you should get CX to do the re-route?
On itasofware there are NO differences in taxes and surcharges between flying LHR-JED and LHR-KWI.
Both have UK-APD of GBP138, UK-PSC of GBP44.96 and BA-YQ of GBP159.50.
So a total of GBP342.46 (approx USD556)
(note: I've assumed you're travelling in a premium cabin and so do not get the 50% discount on APD that cattle class pax get)

Good point. The taxes do seem ridiculously high.

Thanks for checking the numbers. I might give CX a call and see what they quote. Yes, it's Business.


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 23513932)
I've just done some checking in EF
For Australian, UK and US passport holders there is no mention of Israeli stamps
Whereas for Israeli passport holders, it states "Admission and transit is refused to holders of Israeli travel document(s), even if not leaving the aircraft and proceeding by the same flight."

Many thanks for that. It would seem KWI is the winner. Now I just have to talk to EY and see about award space between KWI and AUH.

I'll report back after I've spoken with CX and AA again.

Calchas Sep 12, 2014 5:38 am


Originally Posted by danger (Post 23514512)
Good point. The taxes do seem ridiculously high.

Thanks for checking the numbers. I might give CX a call and see what they quote. Yes, it's Business.



Many thanks for that. It would seem KWI is the winner. Now I just have to talk to EY and see about award space between KWI and AUH.

I'll report back after I've spoken with CX and AA again.

Get a full break down of the taxes and see what is going on.

My money is on fuel surcharges—or a mistake.

Also—thanks for posting back, often we get questions and never know the answer.

danger Sep 12, 2014 9:55 pm

All done. KWI it is.

As a result of the debacle that ensued with my ticket over a six week period earlier this year following my involuntary re-route (which involved me wrongly being denied boarding in LAX earlier this month because AA believed I hadn't paid the UK taxes), AA waived the change fee. As pandaperth suggested, the taxes were the same for LHR-KWI as they were LHR-JED. Because of this waiver I regrettably can't offer anything more definitive on whether taxes are reassessed on only the changed sector or on the entirety of the remaining itinerary. In that respect all I have is noted above and commensurate with what Calchas notes: taxes are reassessed on all remaining flights.

Thank you all for your help with this one. It's all worked out in the end.


Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 23514669)
Also—thanks for posting back, often we get questions and never know the answer.

Also a bug-bear of mine when people seek assistance but don't report back.

pandaperth Sep 13, 2014 12:11 am


Originally Posted by danger (Post 23518601)
Thank you all for your help with this one. It's all worked out in the end.

^^

Also a bug-bear of mine when people seek assistance but don't report back.
I too add my thanks for reporting back
^^^

Calchas Sep 14, 2014 7:41 am


Originally Posted by danger (Post 23518601)
All done. KWI it is.

Brilliant, enjoy!

VH-EAB Sep 27, 2014 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 23305667)
Nothing significant that I can spot.

The changes I have spotted are:
  • Also in Section 5 a new sentence "OSI YY OW RTW to be inserted into PNR to avoid reservation cancellation." (anyone understand this?)

OSI = Other Service Information
YY = All Airlines
OW RTW = OneWorld Round The World

This will stop auto cancellation by individual airline systems based on their ticketing time limits for bookings in L, D and A Class.

anabolism Sep 27, 2014 5:17 pm


Originally Posted by VH-EAB (Post 23590927)
OSI = Other Service Information
YY = All Airlines
OW RTW = OneWorld Round The World

This will stop auto cancellation by individual airline systems based on their ticketing time limits for bookings in L, D and A Class.

Thanks. Interesting that the abbreviation is RTW not ATW. I know we FTers always call it RTW, but when I call the AA RTW desk, the agents there refer to it as ATW.

Himeno Sep 28, 2014 1:44 am


Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 23591390)
Thanks. Interesting that the abbreviation is RTW not ATW. I know we FTers always call it RTW, but when I call the AA RTW desk, the agents there refer to it as ATW.

It is called "round the world" on the oneworld website, hence "RTW".
AA calls it "around the world".

Himeno Sep 28, 2014 1:50 am


Originally Posted by VH-EAB (Post 23590927)
This will stop auto cancellation by individual airline systems based on their ticketing time limits for bookings in L, D and A Class.

The ticket I got issued the other day had a number of delays in the issue process, mostly due to CX wanting new passport details (and delays at the passport office in issuing my new passport) and Qatar APIS info before they would issue.
They noted that they had to have the info for ticket issue by 22/23SEP (depart 29SEP) or QR and BA would cancel their sectors. The flights (QF, CX, AA, BA, QR) were on hold for 3 weeks. Normally the airline would have released the hold with a day or two.

pandaperth Oct 1, 2014 1:17 am

New Version 1-Oct-2014
 
Two changes that I can see are:

Rule 4(j) the airline Gestair has been dropped from the list of IB-affiliated airlines that can be used

Rule 5 the rule on voluntary downgrades to lower cabins has been slightly improved
Old Wording was:

NOTE: For flights where First or Business Class is not offered or available, passengers may travel in a lower Class, in the applicable booking code for that lower Class.
The new wording is:

NOTE: For flights where First or Business Class is not offered or available, passengers may travel in a lower Class, in the applicable booking code for that lower Class.

Where the applicable booking class for the lower class is not available,
Passengers travelling on First Class Fares may book Y class
Passengers travelling on DONE* Business Class Fares may book B class

checkerboard Oct 1, 2014 12:13 pm


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 23607810)
The new wording is:

NOTE: For flights where First or Business Class is not offered or available, passengers may travel in a lower Class, in the applicable booking code for that lower Class.

Where the applicable booking class for the lower class is not available,
Passengers travelling on First Class Fares may book Y class
Passengers travelling on DONE* Business Class Fares may book B class

Note the the new IONE* products aren't eligible for "B" class (and the extra flexibility that allows)... For them, as I read this, it's either "I" or "L"


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