FlyerTalk Forums
Page 27 of 51
« First
17
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
37
Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   oneworld (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld-411/)
-   -   Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/983365-changes-xonex-rule-sheet.html)

pbd456 Aug 5, 2016 11:13 am
Originally Posted by jerry a. laska (Post 27020509)
Once travel has started CX has reissued several xonex's originally issued by other airlines for me over the years.
how do u get cx to reissued?

jerry a. laska Aug 5, 2016 11:25 am
Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 27020585)
how do u get cx to reissued?
I have had them reissue in HKG while I am traveling on the ticket. I provide them the new routing and my credit card, I sit in the lounge for awhile, they come back with the reissue completed. I have also called and given them my new routing and they have reissued.

pbd456 Aug 5, 2016 11:39 am
Originally Posted by jerry a. laska (Post 27020643)
I have had them reissue in HKG while I am traveling on the ticket. I provide them the new routing and my credit card, I sit in the lounge for awhile, they come back with the reissue completed. I have also called and given them my new routing and they have reissued.
they didnt ask u to contact the original ticketing airline?

jerry a. laska Aug 5, 2016 11:46 am
Originally Posted by pbd456 (Post 27020718)
they didnt ask u to contact the original ticketing airline?
Uh, no.

pandaperth Aug 6, 2016 8:48 am
Originally Posted by JAXBA (Post 27020116)


Ugh!

I checked Amadeus to see how QF and AA had it filed and of course QF doesn't have the para 4(h) line, as we knew. I also compared paras 3(a)(b) for differences and, well, spot the difference:

QF filed:

Code:
            3. TWO PERMITTED IN EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST
            A. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA
            //AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE/MIDDLE
              EAST-AFRICA//
            - ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
            BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
            AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT
          - IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
            THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
            AFRICA.
            B. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING OTHER THAN AFRICA
            //EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST//
            - ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
            BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
            AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT
            - IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
            THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
            AFRICA.

AA filed:

Code:
3. TWO PERMITTED IN EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST
A. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA
//AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE/MIDDLE
EAST-AFRICA//
- ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT.
B. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING OTHER THAN AFRICA
//EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST//
- IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
AFRICA.
I have highlighted the differences between AA's version and QF's version.

So, my understanding of AA's version is:
If I choose to take advantage of the backtrack provisions of Paragraph 4E3, in other words backtracking through Europe/Middle East in conjunction with travel to/from Africa, then if American Airlines tickets the itinerary:
  1. I cannot have segments (whether flown or not) between Europe and the Middle East – whereas with Qantas I can have such flights
  2. If I originate in Africa and have both visits to Europe/Middle East via the Europe zone of the continent, then I am allowed to include South Africa and/or Mauritius in the itinerary – whereas with Qantas that inclusion is not allowed
  3. If I originate other than in Africa, then I am allowed stopovers on both visits to the continent of Europe/Middle East – whereas with Qantas one of the visits must be a transfer without stopover
So with AA these itineraries would be valid (but invalid with QF):
JNB-oCPT-LHR-DME-LHR-LAX-HKG-MLE-xLGW-oMRU-JNB - through Europe twice yet including SA/Mauritius

LAX-HKG-MLE-oDOH-oAMM-oDOH-JNB-CPT-oLHR-oDME-oLHR-LAX - stopovers in Middle East prior to Africa and stopovers in Europe after Africa
:rolleyes: We need someone to try booking one of these with AA ATW desk:D

pandaperth Aug 6, 2016 10:33 am
I've been spending a bit of time in EF looking at what all the airlines have in their fare rules for this clause.

What I have found is:
  • All airlines that have updated their fare rules, have the same wording as QF - except for AA of course
  • the two airlines that have yet to update their rules (BA and MH) have the same wording as AA (!)
  • except for LA which hasn't updated its rules since last year
So, what I think has happened is:
  • When the rules were changed back on April 22nd, the rules that went into the GDS were a poor translation into GDS-speak of the wording in the oneworld.com pdf document (see table reproduced below)
  • None of us picked up on that (I rarely look at the GDS versions of the rules)
  • And AA merely omitted to change its wording in the way the other airlines did
  • I think the poor translation was to think that in column 2 of the table -the first sentence was in the first row and the second sentence in the second row, whereas it is clear to a reader that both sentences pertain to both rows
Wording of the rule in the pdf document on oneworld.com:
IMHO this wording is in turn a poor translation of the actual requirement, which I think is:
3. Two permitted in Europe/Middle East when one is a transfer without stopover. Note only one flight segment permitted between the United Kingdom and South Africa/Mauritius

or maybe (if this was truly the intention)

3. Two permitted in Europe/Middle East when one is a transfer without stopover. Note only one flight segment permitted between Europe and South Africa/Mauritius
Originally Posted by JAXBA (Post 27020116)


Ugh!

I checked Amadeus to see how QF and AA had it filed and of course QF doesn't have the para 4(h) line, as we knew. I also compared paras 3(a)(b) for differences and, well, spot the difference:

QF filed:

Code:
            3. TWO PERMITTED IN EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST
            A. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA
            //AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE/MIDDLE
              EAST-AFRICA//
            - ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
            BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
            AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT
            - IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
            THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
            AFRICA.
            B. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING OTHER THAN AFRICA
            //EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST//
            - ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
            BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
            AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT
            - IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
            THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
            AFRICA.

AA filed:

Code:
3. TWO PERMITTED IN EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST
A. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA
//AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE/MIDDLE
EAST-AFRICA//
- ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST MUST
BE A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT.
B. FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING OTHER THAN AFRICA
//EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST//
- IF TRAVEL TO/FROM EUROPE IN BOTH DIRECTIONS
THE ITINERARY MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH
AFRICA.

danger Aug 7, 2016 3:05 am
So is it fare (!) to say that we now officially have a fragmented oneworld Explorer product, rather than was open to interpretation but at least had the same, ridiculously complicated rules?

Calchas Aug 7, 2016 11:06 am
Originally Posted by danger (Post 27027149)
So is it fare (!) to say that we now officially have a fragmented oneworld Explorer product, rather than was open to interpretation but at least had the same, ridiculously complicated rules?
Indeed, it seems that oneworld is becoming a looser alliance by the week.

skunker Aug 7, 2016 12:54 pm
The "more than oneworld"

beardoc Aug 9, 2016 5:30 am
I can't imagine the fragmented product is going to last in this way. Surely there will have to be some consistency brought to bear by oneworld HQ?

Calchas Aug 9, 2016 8:20 am
Originally Posted by beardoc (Post 27037233)
I can't imagine the fragmented product is going to last in this way. Surely there will have to be some consistency brought to bear by oneworld HQ?
oneworld HQ has nothing to bring to bear. It does what AA/BA/CX/QF (the founding airlines) instruct it to do.

pandaperth Aug 18, 2016 9:14 am
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 27019324)
So the new fare rules have been published on the Oneworld web site
But AA has obviously decided it is right and Oneworld is wrong

This is what AA's new fare rule looks like in ExpertFlyer

...


Note this is new wording - previously paragraph 4(h) referred to "3.1.3 and 3.2.3" not "FL.E.3.A and E.3.B"
So it looks like AA will still refuse Europe-Middle East flights on backtracking itineraries
Originally Posted by beardoc (Post 27037233)
I can't imagine the fragmented product is going to last in this way. Surely there will have to be some consistency brought to bear by oneworld HQ?
Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 27037901)
oneworld HQ has nothing to bring to bear. It does what AA/BA/CX/QF (the founding airlines) instruct it to do.
Checking today in ExpertFlyer and...
AA's version of the rules now matches all the other airlines' rules
(except for MH which has still not done the August update, and LA which still has last year's version of the rules:rolleyes:)
I wonder how that happened;)

pandaperth Dec 1, 2016 12:14 pm
2016-Dec-01 New Version of the Rule Sheet
 
2016-Dec-01 New Version of the Rule Sheet - as published on the Oneworld website

I have spotted two significant changes and two insignificant ones.

Significant Changes:
  • As reported by Calchas in another thread, Oneworld has announced the availability of southern hemisphere 3-continent fares. Consequently the following text has been removed from rule 0:
    3 Continent Fare is only offered for travel originating in Asia, Europe/Middle East and North America
  • The restriction on only two long haul intra-continental flights from/to the UK has been removed - in other words the following text has been removed from rule 4(h):
    *not more than 2 of which may be between the UK and ALBANIA, ALGERIA, BULGARIA, CROATIA, CYPRUS, GREECE, MIDDLE EAST, MOROCCO, ROMANIA, RUSSIA west of the Urals, TUNISIA, TURKEY, UKRAINE.
IMHO, two significant enhancements^

Insignificant changes
  • Rule 4(g) has been changed from:
    4 (g) Intermediate surface sectors are permitted at the passenger’s expense. Transoceanic surface sectors between TC1-TC2 and TC1-TC3 are not permitted.
    EXCEPTION: For travel originating in the South West Pacific, one transoceanic surface sector between TC1-TC2 or TC1-TC3 is permitted.
    to:
    4 (g) Intermediate surface sectors are permitted at the passenger’s expense. Transoceanic surface sectors between TC1-TC2 and TC1-TC3 are not permitted.
    EXCEPTION: For travel originating in the South West Pacific, one transoceanic surface sector between TC1-TC2 or TC1-TC3 is permitted.
    The first crossing between TC areas must be flown, not surfaced
  • Rule 4 (j) has some changes to the list of affiliated airlines (some of which are merely changing say LAN Peru to LATAM Peru)

Calchas Dec 1, 2016 12:57 pm
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 27552163)
As reported by Calchas in another thread, Oneworld has announced the availability of southern hemisphere 3-continent fares.
While I am always delighted to take credit for the work of others, in this case it was danger who first reported this. :)

Originally Posted by danger (Post 27551008)
It's, here, it's here!

Oneworld now offers round-the-world southern hemisphere ticket.

https://www.oneworld.com/news-inform..._col_count%3D5

danger Dec 1, 2016 5:02 pm
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 27552163)
2016-Dec-01 New Version of the Rule Sheet - as published on the Oneworld website.
Interestingly, though, the following remains in the rules:
Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface
eg LON-SYD/MELvv, DXB-SYD/MELvv, DOH-ADL/MEL/PER/SYDvv, is considered travelling via Asia.
Continents South West Pacific, Asia and Europe/Middle East must each be counted
So doesn't that actually contradict the whole 'xONEx from the southern hemisphere is now possible' spruik?

Originally Posted by Calchas (Post 27552398)
While I am always delighted to take credit for the work of others, in this case it was danger who first reported this. :)
Very kind of you, Calchas.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:27 pm.
Page 27 of 51
« First
17
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
37
Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.