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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   oneworld (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld-411/)
-   -   Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/983365-changes-xonex-rule-sheet.html)

skunker Nov 1, 2013 4:57 pm
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21706846)
No. This rule has been around since the version of Mar-2012. The words "or by surface" were added in the version of Nov-2012
Right, but now it specifically says "Middle East" which it did not prior to these new rules. Obviously Middle East was included in Europe zone before but with the new QF and QR flights it appear they want to point out you cannot skip Asia with these flights.

skunker Nov 1, 2013 4:59 pm
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21707022)
Rule 3.2.3 is stating that

IF you want an itinerary
"AFRICA-EUROPE-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA OR AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE-AFRICA"
(in other words your two visits to Europe/Middle East are one to the Europe Zone one to the Middle East Zone)
THEN
"TRAVEL MAY NOT INCLUDE ANY FLOWN OR SURFACE SECTOR BETWEEN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST"
IF you want a Europe-Middle East sector in your itinerary, then have your two visits to Europe/Middle East be to/from the same ZONE

For example these are valid:
JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO (both visits to/from the Middle East zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO (both visits in the Europe zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)
I think you are missing this part
Code:
//SEGMENTS BETWEEN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST
              ARE NOT PERMITTED IF TRAVEL INCLUDES AFRICA
              AND THE ITINERARY UTILISES THE BACKTRACKING
              PROVISION IN PARAGRAPH 4.E.3.1.3 OR 3.2.3//
which precludes those routings.

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 5:00 pm
Originally Posted by wijibintheair (Post 21707957)
Fascinating following this and trying to understand all these new rules with regards Africa - based in Cape Town it makes a big difference - but a PITA that you cannot use the on-line tool for a XONEX starting on QR - even for pricing purposes.
I am hoping that the following routing will be permissible: CPT-DOH-MXP-DOH-YUL-MIA-MEX-SCL-GRU-EZE-JFK-HKG-KUL-NRT-PVG-DOH-CPT with no stop overs on the EZE-JFK-HKG and the PVG-DOH-CPT sectors.
Looks valid to me
It complies with the rule
3.2.2 Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous or next continent.

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 5:15 pm
Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21711031)
Right, but now it specifically says "Middle East" which it did not prior to these new rules. Obviously Middle East was included in Europe zone before but with the new QF and QR flights it appear they want to point out you cannot skip Asia with these flights.
Ah Ha. Got it!

The new rule is
K. 1. TRAVEL BETWEEN SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/OR BY SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS
And your saying the words I've emphasised in red have been added?
Checking back through old versions of the rules, it turns out those words were added to the Nov-2012 version. And none of us noticed!

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 5:46 pm
To aid the discussion, I have re-typed the new rules for travel that backtracks between Europe/Middle East and Africa:

For travel originating in Africa - one of the following backtracks is permitted:

3.2.1 Africa-Europe-RTW-Europe-Africa
One of the visits to Europe must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous or next continent.
Travel may not include Mauritius or South Africa
3.2.2 Africa-Middle East-RTW-Middle East-Africa
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous or next continent.
3.2.3 Africa-Europe-RTW-Middle East-Africa OR Africa-Middle East-RTW-Europe-Africa
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector between Europe and Middle East
For travel originating other than in Africa - one of the following backtracks is permitted:

3.1.1 Europe-Africa-Europe
One of the visits to Europe must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous or next continent.
Travel may not include Mauritius or South Africa
3.1.2 Middle East-Africa-Middle East
One of the visits to Middle East must be a transfer without stopover between Africa and the previous or next continent.
3.1.3 Europe-Africa-Middle East OR Middle East-Africa-Europe
Travel may not include any flown or surface sector between Europe and Middle East

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 7:09 pm
The new version of the Rule Sheet is now available on the Oneworld web site - here

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 7:34 pm
Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21711046)
I think you are missing this part
Code:
//SEGMENTS BETWEEN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST
              ARE NOT PERMITTED IF TRAVEL INCLUDES AFRICA
              AND THE ITINERARY UTILISES THE BACKTRACKING
              PROVISION IN PARAGRAPH 4.E.3.1.3 OR 3.2.3//
which precludes those routings.
I think I am correct, but since these are new rules I could be wrong:)

Neither of the two itineraries I claimed are valid are making use of the backtracking provisions in 4.E.3.1.3 or 3.2.3

JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.2
DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.1
and each of these rules allow segments between the two Zones (Europe and Middle East)

skunker Nov 1, 2013 9:57 pm
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21711752)
I think I am correct, but since these are new rules I could be wrong:)

Neither of the two itineraries I claimed are valid are making use of the backtracking provisions in 4.E.3.1.3 or 3.2.3

JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.2
DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO is making use of the provisions in 3.2.1
and each of these rules allow segments between the two Zones (Europe and Middle East)
This is all too confusing. :confused:

danger Nov 2, 2013 12:36 am
Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21707022)
DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO (both visits in the Europe zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)
Who flies DAR-LHR?

Moomba Nov 2, 2013 3:03 am
Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21712269)
This is all too confusing. :confused:
Agree they have made it ridiculously complicated. Agents who deal with these tickets are going to pull their hair out. There has been enough confusion over the years on comparatively simple rules like the backtracking in Aus and the transit via Asia / SWP rules. This is way more complex to try to comprehend.

pandaperth Nov 2, 2013 3:06 am
Originally Posted by danger (Post 21712665)
Who flies DAR-LHR?
:o Well BA used to (when did it stop?)

Substitute any other African airport - from which an airline flies to the Europe Zone - but not from Sth Africa or Mauritius!

All clear?
Apologies for any confusion caused

pandaperth Nov 2, 2013 3:09 am
Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21712269)
This is all too confusing. :confused:
Originally Posted by Moomba (Post 21712902)
Agree they have made it ridiculously complicated. Agents who deal with these tickets are going to pull their hair out. There has been enough confusion over the years on comparatively simple rules like the backtracking in Aus and the transit via Asia / SWP rules. This is way more complex to try to comprehend.
Does my post #95 help at all?

beardoc Nov 2, 2013 3:32 am
There does seem to be a little more flexibility for me - the new rule about transit through the ME to Africa benefits me, as it now gives me an option to fly JNB-Europe-SWP-North America-ME-JNB - previously you couldn't do this, as you fell foul of the rule of not being able to touch Europe twice if you were in South Africa. Previously I could only fly westerly (JNB-Europe-North America-SWP).

Another benefit on continental entries and exits:

2. TWO PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE BETWEEN THE SW PACIFIC AND EUROPE.
This means you can fly QF2 from LHR to SYD *AND* then backtrack to Asia. That's another benefit.

pandaperth Nov 2, 2013 4:40 am
Originally Posted by beardoc (Post 21712965)
There does seem to be a little more flexibility for me - the new rule about transit through the ME to Africa benefits me, as it now gives me an option to fly JNB-Europe-SWP-North America-ME-JNB - previously you couldn't do this, as you fell foul of the rule of not being able to touch Europe twice if you were in South Africa. Previously I could only fly westerly (JNB-Europe-North America-SWP).
The previous rule was certainly more restrictive, and you couldn't originate in SA, return to SA and have the second transit of Europe. The transit was only allowed to be to/from certain African countries (and SA wasn't one of them)

Another benefit on continental entries and exits:
2. TWO PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE SERVICE BETWEEN THE SW PACIFIC AND EUROPE.
This means you can fly QF2 from LHR to SYD *AND* then backtrack to Asia. That's another benefit.
This one has been around a long time

anabolism Nov 2, 2013 2:17 pm
Is Israel in the Europe zone or the Middle East zone?

I can't find Israel in the document at all.

The continent of Europe-Middle East consists of 2 zones:

* Europe (including Algeria, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Morocco, Russia east and west of the Urals. Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan)

* Middle East (including Egypt, Libya and Sudan)


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