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-   -   Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/983365-changes-xonex-rule-sheet.html)

Reality_Czech Oct 30, 2013 8:09 am


Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21689395)
So, you cannot do LHR-DXB-LHR-JNB-DOH...??

I read it so that you cannot do LHR-JNB-DOH-BOM ?

YOu would think that it would be sensible to have a clause to allow 2nd entry to Europe when transit via Middle East for travel between Africa & Asia.

skunker Oct 30, 2013 9:35 am


Originally Posted by Reality_Czech (Post 21694332)
I read it so that you cannot do LHR-JNB-DOH-BOM ?

YOu would think that it would be sensible to have a clause to allow 2nd entry to Europe when transit via Middle East for travel between Africa & Asia.

No, it specially allows that routing. The old rules use to only allow two flights between LON and ME, that rule is still there. But, now they have further specified that you cannot have those flights if you enter/leave Africa via ME (aka DOH). The worst part about that is it does not allow any flights to/from Europe not just the UK.

My reading:
Bad - ...KUL-CDG-DOH-LHR-JNB-DOH-JFK...
Good - ...KUL-CDG-DOH-LHR-JNB-LHR-JFK...

JohnAx Oct 30, 2013 6:03 pm

No "extra in-continent segments" is from 1 July 2013
 

Originally Posted by anabolism (Post 21366507)
It no longer permits the purchase of additional segments above the four (six in N.A.) per continent. Or maybe this happened even earlier but I missed it then? ...snip...

Just FWIW for those wondering if their elderly xONEx tickets grandfather the two-extra-segments-per-continent benefit, the AA desk agreed that 1 July 2013 was the date of the change that eliminated it.

anabolism Oct 30, 2013 9:55 pm


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 21690670)
Just need MH to restart their Africa-South America flight or AA to start the rumored MIA-JNB.

AA MIA-JNB would be excellent, since most of our RTWs are en-JNB, and it gets hard to find award space to get there to start.

Moomba Nov 1, 2013 6:24 am

The most significant changes I can see that will hurt is the last sentence of 3.2.1.

FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA ONE OF THE
FOLLOWING BACKTRACKS IS PERMITTED.
3.2.1 //AFRICA-EUROPE-RTW-EUROPE-AFRICA//
ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE MUST BE A
TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT. TRAVEL
MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH AFRICA.

This means that we can no longer start in SA and finish in NBO (or similar) with two passes through Europe.

My current RTW now shows as invalid as I started in JNB and will finish in NBO with one stop and one transit without stop in Europe.

From my understanding of this if you start in SA or MRU you will always have to go via Asia without visiting the rest of Europe in one direction of travel if you want to visit Europe the other direction.

Also 3.2.3. No ME sector from/to Europe if you start in Africa. :eek:


These things are becoming more and more restrictive and more and more expensive. :mad:

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 6:37 am

Summary of the recent Rule Changes
 
We’re still waiting for the new rules to be posted on the Oneworld site; but in the meantime I have compared the previous rules (as published on the Oneworld web site on 1-October-2013) and the rules that currently show in Expert Flyer (see post #66 above)

General
QR is now a member of Oneworld and so it can be used on a Oneworld Explorer
Rule 1
The definition of the continent Europe/Middle East has been changed to split it into two ZONES:
Europe Zone – which includes Nth West Africa (Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia)
Middle East Zone – which includes Nth East Africa (Libya, Egypt and Sudan)
These zones are used in rule 2(e) to define the allowed second visit to Europe/Middle East from/to Africa
Rule 2(e)
Previously a second visit to Europe/Middle East was allowed provided one of the two visits was a transfer without stopover between Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya or Uganda and another continent

This rule has changed significantly. This is my understanding of it:

- Like the previous version, the new rule:
  • applies only IF you want to include Africa in your itinerary AND you want a second visit to Europe
  • requires one of the two visits to Europe/Middle East to be a transfer* without stopover
- The new rule allows the transfer without stopover to be to/from any African country (with one restriction)

- The rule has varying new restrictions depending on where your two visits to Europe/Middle East occur:
  • Both in the Europe Zone – South Africa and Mauritius cannot be included (and so the transfer without stopover cannot to/from either of these countries)
  • Both in the Middle East Zone – no new restrictions
  • One in each Zone – no inter-zone segments allowed BUT stopovers allowed on each visit
It will be interesting to see how the online tool handles the new rule

*Correction: In the case of "One in each Zone" there is no requirement for one of them to be a transfer without stopover. I have tested this in the tool and it allows each to have stopovers (test itinerary: CPT-oLHR-oMAD-JFK-SYD-MEL-oDOH-oCAI-oDOH-CPT)

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 6:44 am


Originally Posted by skunker (Post 21689395)
Item K has changed too:
Code:

K. 1. TRAVEL BETWEEN SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE
                /MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/OR BY
                SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-
                EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS.


No. This rule has been around since the version of Mar-2012. The words "or by surface" were added in the version of Nov-2012

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 7:03 am


Originally Posted by Moomba (Post 21706753)
The most significant changes I can see that will hurt is the last sentence of 3.2.1.

FOR TRAVEL ORIGINATING IN AFRICA ONE OF THE
FOLLOWING BACKTRACKS IS PERMITTED.
3.2.1 //AFRICA-EUROPE-RTW-EUROPE-AFRICA//
ONE OF THE VISITS TO EUROPE MUST BE A
TRANSFER WITHOUT STOPOVER BETWEEN AFRICA
AND THE PREVIOUS/NEXT CONTINENT. TRAVEL
MAY NOT INCLUDE MAURITIUS/SOUTH AFRICA.

This means that we can no longer start in SA and finish in NBO (or similar) with two passes through Europe.

My current RTW now shows as invalid as I started in JNB and will finish in NBO with one stop and one transit without stop in Europe.

From my understanding of this if you start in SA or MRU you will always have to go via Asia without visiting the rest of Europe in one direction of travel if you want to visit Europe the other direction.

I think you are confusing the continent of Europe/Middle East with one of the two Zones into which the continent is now split.
You are allowed to start in SA and finish in NBO - but the rule now is that the visits to Europe/Middle East cannot both be in the Europe Zone. (They can both be in the Middle East Zone, or you can have one in each Zone)

So for example, these are OK:
Start with JNB-LHR and end with DOH-NBO (rule 3.2.3)
Start with JNB-DOH and end with LHR-NBO (also rule 3.2.3)
Start with JNB-DOH and end with DOH-NBO (rule 3.2.2)
But you cannot have:
Start with JNB-LHR and end with LHR-NBO (violates rule 3.2.1 because it includes Sth Africa or Mauritius)

Moomba Nov 1, 2013 7:09 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21706935)
Start with JNB-LHR and end with DOH-NBO (rule 3.2.3)
Start with JNB-DOH and end with LHR-NBO (also rule 3.2.3)
Start with JNB-DOH and end with DOH-NBO (rule 3.2.2)

But these aren't two passes through Europe, which is what I am complaining about and we used to be able to do.

I was reffering to normal people's definition of Europe and not the OW one that includes the Middle East (when it suits them to). ;)

This also means they are forcing us to use QR on one of these sectors and BA on the other. Perhaps that was part of the deal with Willie and the QR lot? ;) (conspriacy theories abound) :D

Finally it also means one less F sector on an AONEx as to my knowledge QR don't operate an F cabin to any African destination. (Happy to be proven wrong though).

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 7:21 am


Originally Posted by Moomba (Post 21706753)
Also 3.2.3. No ME sector from/to Europe if you start in Africa. :eek:

Rule 3.2.3 is stating that

IF you want an itinerary
"AFRICA-EUROPE-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA OR AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE-AFRICA"
(in other words your two visits to Europe/Middle East are one to the Europe Zone one to the Middle East Zone)
THEN
"TRAVEL MAY NOT INCLUDE ANY FLOWN OR SURFACE SECTOR BETWEEN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST"
IF you want a Europe-Middle East sector in your itinerary, then have your two visits to Europe/Middle East be to/from the same ZONE

For example these are valid:
JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO (both visits to/from the Middle East zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO (both visits in the Europe zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 7:32 am


Originally Posted by Moomba (Post 21706961)
But these aren't two passes through Europe, which is what I am complaining about and we used to be able to do.

I was reffering to normal people's definition of Europe and not the OW one that includes the Middle East (when it suits them to). ;)

If you want to include either Sth Africa and/or Mauritius in your itinerary, then yes I cannot see any way to get two passes through the Europe Zone


This also means they are forcing us to use QR on one of these sectors and BA on the other. Perhaps that was part of the deal with Willie and the QR lot? ;) (conspriacy theories abound) :D
Again, only if you want Sth Africa and/or Mauritius
You are allowed say LUN-LHR.....LHR-LUN


Finally it also means one less F sector on an AONEx as to my knowledge QR don't operate an F cabin to any African destination. (Happy to be proven wrong though).
Sadly I think you're right:(

Moomba Nov 1, 2013 7:42 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21707022)
Rule 3.2.3 is stating that

IF you want an itinerary
"AFRICA-EUROPE-RTW-MIDDLE EAST-AFRICA OR AFRICA-MIDDLE EAST-RTW-EUROPE-AFRICA"
(in other words your two visits to Europe/Middle East are one to the Europe Zone one to the Middle East Zone)
THEN
"TRAVEL MAY NOT INCLUDE ANY FLOWN OR SURFACE SECTOR BETWEEN EUROPE AND MIDDLE EAST"
IF you want a Europe-Middle East sector in your itinerary, then have your two visits to Europe/Middle East be to/from the same ZONE

For example these are valid:
JNB-xDOH-JFK...HKG-LHR-DOH-NBO (both visits to/from the Middle East zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

DAR-LHR-MCT-LHR-HKG...JFK-xLHR-NBO (both visits in the Europe zone and with Europe-Middle East sectors)

I see your point. It seems they have deliberately stopped people adding in mileage run type sectors to and from ME from LHR when starting and ending in Africa.

Also the restrictions for SA originating bookings make them much less desirable as well.

Oh well it was good while it lasted.

pandaperth Nov 1, 2013 8:13 am


Originally Posted by Moomba (Post 21707150)
It seems they have deliberately stopped people adding in mileage run type sectors to and from ME from LHR when starting and ending in Africa.

Not sure I agree with you;)
I'm busy dissecting the new rule and intend to post my thoughts shortly

But for now I would say that an itinerary such as
CPT-DOH-LHR-DOH-JFK...MEL-xDOH-CPT appears to be valid (cannot test it online because cannot start with a QR flight)

Moomba Nov 1, 2013 8:37 am


Originally Posted by pandaperth (Post 21707347)
Not sure I agree with you;)
I'm busy dissecting the new rule and intend to post my thoughts shortly

But for now I would say that an itinerary such as
CPT-DOH-LHR-DOH-JFK...MEL-xDOH-CPT appears to be valid (cannot test it online because cannot start with a QR flight)

Ah yes but you note I said 'from LHR' :p Pedantry I know but it does limit where you can go next using your example.

Maybe the solution is to only do DONEs from here on in and these rules don't seem so restrictive. :)

wijibintheair Nov 1, 2013 9:38 am

Fascinating following this and trying to understand all these new rules with regards Africa - based in Cape Town it makes a big difference - but a PITA that you cannot use the on-line tool for a XONEX starting on QR - even for pricing purposes.
I am hoping that the following routing will be permissible: CPT-DOH-MXP-DOH-YUL-MIA-MEX-SCL-GRU-EZE-JFK-HKG-KUL-NRT-PVG-DOH-CPT with no stop overs on the EZE-JFK-HKG and the PVG-DOH-CPT sectors.


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