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-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

Antarius Aug 29, 19 4:22 pm


Originally Posted by Zeeb (Post 31471096)
Anything is possible, but stop pretending there is no functional difference in both ease and opportunity in tampering with this

https://i.imgur.com/Pjl9Idr.jpg?1

vs this.

https://i.imgur.com/3qbz9NV.jpg

I'm nor pretending - I'm stating. Airport lounge showers and public restrooms have had dispensers for years.

unless you can cite an example, I do not believe there is a known epidemic or infectious disease problem that has been linked to soap dispensers.

KRSW Aug 29, 19 4:26 pm


Originally Posted by Collierkr (Post 31470990)
sad that so many fail to see the good this type of approach will have for our planet. Sure it saves money because there is less waste.

As currently implemented by Marriott, I'm not sure there really is an environmental benefit. Here's what is currently being used in the limited-service properties: https://www.mariettahospitality.com/...A+Tea+Tree.php

As you may note, they're only 8 oz, non-refillable bottles, complete with a permanently-attached pump dispenser. The current single-use bottles are either 2oz or 1oz depending upon the property. So, 1 dispenser pump bottle = 4-8 regular bottles. Prima-facia it seems like a good deal, BUT what's the real environmental cost? These are single-use bottles and can't be recycled -- there's multiple types of plastic AND most likely a metal spring inside of there, so they're heading straight for the landfill. Seriously, I'll see if I can snag an empty bottle from the hotel this weekend and do a proper teardown with photos for everyone & weigh out the components.

As a side note:
1) Cradle-to-grave, a Mercedes S-Class, including all of the gasoline it will consume in its lifetime, is more environmentally-friendly and puts out less CO2 than a Prius.
2) Cows are quite windy. (We can't have a 100+ post thread on FT without some mention of breaking wind, right?) The result is ~2300kg of CO2 per year. A car puts out ~108g/km. Do the math and you'll find that a single cow's farts in a year are equivalent to driving 21,296km (13,232 miles).
3) I guess if you want to be environmentally-friendly, drive a Mercedes S-Class instead of a Prius and eat more cows to keep them destroying the Earth. .

Antarius Aug 29, 19 4:27 pm


Originally Posted by cova (Post 31471261)
The current small bottles have a seal on them. Things like the mouth wash has a piece of clear tape sealing the top. If I come across a container in the bathroom that was already open I don't use it. Again - that is why they are sealed. What keeps someone from putting something in the bottle.

Some European hotels I have stayed some time ago had dispensers but they were something you squeezed rather than pump - and in some cases they were in a sealed bag that got pierced when put in the holder rack. So not reused or refilled. Just a larger pouch than the small bottles.

Mouthwash does. Most soaps do not. In the last couple months , I've stayed at the following hotels that do not have seals on their soaps, shampoos or lotions.

1. 4 luxury collection hotels (milton brown and others)
2. W
3. CY
4. FF
5. RI
6. JW marriott
7. SHS
8. Autograph collection hotel
9. RC
10. Westin

In addition, the Grand Hyatt, Hyatt Regencys, Hyatt Place and Hyatt houses do not have sealed minis either.

The only one that I can remember is the LM with the little seals on the Malin + Goetze cosmetics.

no one is advocating an open jar of mouthwash. They are sealed. But most soap and shampoos do not have tamper proof seals, and this hasnt caused an issue.

CPH-Flyer Aug 29, 19 4:39 pm


Originally Posted by cova (Post 31471261)
The current small bottles have a seal on them. Things like the mouth wash has a piece of clear tape sealing the top. If I come across a container in the bathroom that was already open I don't use it. Again - that is why they are sealed. What keeps someone from putting something in the bottle.

Some European hotels I have stayed some time ago had dispensers but they were something you squeezed rather than pump - and in some cases they were in a sealed bag that got pierced when put in the holder rack. So not reused or refilled. Just a larger pouch than the small bottles.

The mouthwash is always sealed, but shampoo in my experience very rarely come with a visible seal. Maybe some of the click liids have something that should make you able to notice if it has been opened before, but I don't seem to notice it then.

Handcake Aug 29, 19 4:57 pm


Originally Posted by DutchessPDX (Post 31466539)
I stayed at the Marriott Amsterdam Vondel Park a year or so ago, they had L'Occitane products in the room. Believe me I took every soap I could, they retail for like $8 each and they're fantastic.

I've only found one hotel that has that brand and only for the Club Level or Suite rooms. The soap they were providing wasn't as good quality as what I buy myself from that store. It is the soap I have used for years, so I can feel the difference. If you were getting the $8 ones, must mean they were putting out the full size travel ones, which I would snag SO fast too. The hotel I stayed at that had a kit (Sheraton Seoul Place) had soaps half the size of the official travel ones you can buy at airports or the actual stores. I think it was a lower priced item made for gifts or the hotel? I don't know but I wish I could find a hotel with the full size travel bars! I'd stay there every time!

I bring my own bars of soap with me when I travel. I am not so picky on shampoo, but my skin doesn't like a lot of the soaps hotels put out there and I don't do body wash.

GUWonder Aug 29, 19 4:58 pm


s0ssos Aug 29, 19 10:51 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31470773)


Given the following

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0617142534.htm

it’s not a big leap to expect that some people get sick from pathogens picked up from hotel remote controls.

I suppose you can also get sick from being outside. There are germs everywhere! Maybe also from touching other people. Do you ever touch things other people touch?

I would say the "big leap" you are taking is that everybody will get some irreversible contagious disease. Really? You know we deal with bacteria all the time, right? In fact, you have quite a few on your skin. I'm pretty sure you continuously wash your skin though, to prevent yourself from getting ill.

s0ssos Aug 29, 19 10:58 pm

As another poster mentioned, you haven't made the leap to this actual causing illness. "Disease vector" is just a term for bacteria, viruses, etc. Almost all humans have immune systems. People usually don't die from ingesting some dirt (otherwise that would be classified as a weapon of mass destruction and bioterrorism. Though maybe in your book it already is. Someone running around throwing dirt at people!!!)

As to why it is a "leap": your logic is that transferred germs can make ill people, and thus transferred germs cause ill people. A can lead to B, and thus A causes B. Except we don't know whether B actually happens.
If you substitute A for carbon products, B for life, most people agree that carbon products can lead to life. But does just having carbon products cause life? Obviously not.

Cathay Dragon 666 Aug 29, 19 11:08 pm

Great, now I can look forward to:

1) Dispensers not filled up, needed to call management, wait 30 minutes to 2 hours for someone to come and do the refill, and after-hours, tough luck, sleep dirty.

2) Dispensers filled with the wrong type of cleansers. Usually the culprit is Body Lotion being misplaced as Hair Conditioners, but also lazy staff simply filling shampoo as body wash or vice-versa.

3) Mixed dispensers that have contents filled years ago. Granted this is a long-term problem, but these cleaners do undergo chemical changes as time elapses, and not for the better. It can cause skin irritation, rashes, or worse.

4) Broken dispensers that makes it hard to get anything out. Call for service? Wait wait and wait, and again, after-hours? Sleep dirty.

From the hotel side, this will not save them money but cost them more. Studies has shown with little bottles, most people don't ask for extras but conserves what they use. But with dispensers, they are likely to pump each use multiple times and multiple uses during a single shower, which means the inventory for shampoo, conditioner, and body wash shoots up through the roof rather than bringing savings.

s0ssos Aug 29, 19 11:10 pm


Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666 (Post 31472302)
From the hotel side, this will not save them money but cost them more. Studies has shown with little bottles, most people don't ask for extras but conserves what they use. But with dispensers, they are likely to pump each use multiple times and multiple uses during a single shower, which means the inventory for shampoo, conditioner, and body wash shoots up through the roof rather than bringing savings.

That definitely not true for FT. Anybody remember that one where the person complained the staff commented when he asked for an extra big bottle of lotion (or something) for his one-night stay in a luxury hotel? About how he is cheap or something in Cantonese (I think it was in HK)

s0ssos Aug 29, 19 11:12 pm


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31471472)
As currently implemented by Marriott, I'm not sure there really is an environmental benefit. Here's what is currently being used in the limited-service properties: https://www.mariettahospitality.com/...A+Tea+Tree.php

As you may note, they're only 8 oz, non-refillable bottles, complete with a permanently-attached pump dispenser. The current single-use bottles are either 2oz or 1oz depending upon the property. So, 1 dispenser pump bottle = 4-8 regular bottles. Prima-facia it seems like a good deal, BUT what's the real environmental cost? These are single-use bottles and can't be recycled -- there's multiple types of plastic AND most likely a metal spring inside of there, so they're heading straight for the landfill. Seriously, I'll see if I can snag an empty bottle from the hotel this weekend and do a proper teardown with photos for everyone & weigh out the components.

As a side note:
1) Cradle-to-grave, a Mercedes S-Class, including all of the gasoline it will consume in its lifetime, is more environmentally-friendly and puts out less CO2 than a Prius.
2) Cows are quite windy. (We can't have a 100+ post thread on FT without some mention of breaking wind, right?) The result is ~2300kg of CO2 per year. A car puts out ~108g/km. Do the math and you'll find that a single cow's farts in a year are equivalent to driving 21,296km (13,232 miles).
3) I guess if you want to be environmentally-friendly, drive a Mercedes S-Class instead of a Prius and eat more cows to keep them destroying the Earth. .

Is the compostable "plastic" way too expensive for normal use? You know, those plastic cups which say they are from plant-based materials and biodegradable?

chipmaster Aug 29, 19 11:34 pm

What a small but admirable effort! Clever to time it with the world wide focus on the terribles of plastic polluting the world and leverage that to cut a little cost and put a little simpler dispenser in.

1) I rather do like the small bottles and what is left of the lotion, I'll admit I take with me to use at my company gym. The soap/shampoo no need, my company has bulk dispenser there and I use it.

2) OMG the germ a phobes, LOL. Don't you know what doesn't kill you makes you strong :D All them post about germs, mold OMG, you are roall ad warriors and use publc restrooms, share air with some random people who have traveled the world in airplanes ( know how dirty that seat, pocket, tray are? ) elevators, maybe even shared the bed with them too, and you worry about the bulk soap and lotion containers.

GUWonder Aug 29, 19 11:44 pm

Pathogen exposure which doesn’t kill you doesn’t necessarily make you strong/stronger, as the proverbial devil is in the biological details and the outcome for any given individual.


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31472279)
I would say the "big leap" you are taking is that everybody will get some irreversible contagious disease.

I used the word “some” when talking about people. Not “everybody”. “Everybody” is the big leap that I never have made and would never make, but since there isn’t any real dialogue to be had over real information when dealing with disingenuous representations of the words of people with different ideas or opinions than one’s own when it comes to this Marriott move to wall-mounted toiletry dispensers, it’s clear to me that defending Marriott’s move to more wall-mounted dispensers is rooted in ideology and money more than in scientific understanding of pathogen spread and what exacerbates such problems (rather than what minimizes them) and what other problems are associated with this move even as it may have some benefit in reducing plastic waste.

The refillable dispensers are going to lead to hard(er) plastic waste too. Or is Marriott going to mandate the use of entirely non-plastic toiletry dispensers? I’m betting that Marriott and its hotels’ money-as-driver interest is going to mean that they will tend to be mostly hard plastic rather than being a repudiation of plastic in bathrooms.

GUWonder Aug 30, 19 12:01 am


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31472311)
Is the compostable "plastic" way too expensive for normal use? You know, those plastic cups which say they are from plant-based materials and biodegradable?

Tetra-Pak is an expert in this area. And in its home market, plant-based, more readily degradable containers/bags/cups are commonly encountered at grocery stores and the leading type of packaging for grocery goods, liquid ones too.

Going after the tourism markets for petrochemical-based plastic waste problems misses the boat given the big fish to go after for petrochemical-based plastic waste is to be had by going after your neighborhood grocery, department and convenience stores.

And bioplastics aren’t necessarily a panacea:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/relay.n...-ocean-plastic

wysiwyg Aug 30, 19 3:37 am

Hotels are quick to switch for the so called environmental reasons. I wonder how quickly airlines will be willing to switch from plastic cutlery in coach and provide us with metal utensils which can be seen to some as being more environmentally friendly (if you ignore cleaning/soap impact). I’m sure they won’t be as quick due to added cost and weight.


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