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-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

Dr. HFH Sep 3, 19 9:28 am

A single data point, FWIW: A couple of days ago, I spent a night at the Aloft Bangkok. Two dispensers on the wall in the shower, one for combined shampoo/conditioner, the other for shower gel. Both were spotless, no mold, either. The tops were locked, you need some type of key mechanism to open them. Obviously they aren't completely tamper-proof, but the point isn't to make them into bomb-resistant containers. The point is to discourage the casual miscreant. Anyone who is really determined can break them open, but I see someone that determined going for a bigger target than the shampoo dispenser in an individual room in an Aloft, fundamentally a lower priced chain.

cmd320 Sep 3, 19 11:06 am


Originally Posted by chipmaster (Post 31477400)
You really sure they change linens, maid sure could save some time and effort just making the bed, get her shift done earlier, management push to save on a lot of water and soap too.

Sure they washed the dishes,lots of things you can conspire, you heard about the things that happen or are speculated to happen in China?

Yes. It's pretty easy to tell whether linens have been slept in vs. cleaned and pressed.


Originally Posted by Dr. HFH (Post 31485779)
A single data point, FWIW: A couple of days ago, I spent a night at the Aloft Bangkok. Two dispensers on the wall in the shower, one for combined shampoo/conditioner, the other for shower gel. Both were spotless, no mold, either. The tops were locked, you need some type of key mechanism to open them. Obviously they aren't completely tamper-proof, but the point isn't to make them into bomb-resistant containers. The point is to discourage the casual miscreant. Anyone who is really determined can break them open, but I see someone that determined going for a bigger target than the shampoo dispenser in an individual room in an Aloft, fundamentally a lower priced chain.

This is pretty standard for Aloft. That combined shampoo/conditioner crap is useless too.

C17PSGR Sep 3, 19 12:46 pm


Originally Posted by JBord (Post 31485168)
How do you figure? Replacing liquid in dispensers takes significantly longer time than placing new bottles? Or are you factoring in all the calls to housekeeping for broken, empty, or moldy/disgusting dispensers?

If, in either case, it resulted in more labor time, I'd argue that it's just opportunity cost and not a true expense for the hotels. I can't imagine anyone is going to hire additional staff or allow additional overtime just because of the dispensers. In fact, if that were the case, I'm pretty sure corporate would have heard it from owners. It's a telling sign that we aren't hearing owners fight the change -- validates the argument that they're saving money.

Hotel housekeeping is very metrics driven in any large/corporate property.

Its been a while since I've worked on production analytics/time and motion studies but it seems to me that in the current situation, the housekeeping staff likely can replace the single use plastic in seconds when cleaning the sink. In contrast, installing dispensers on the wall incurs an upfront labor cost. Replacing and cleaning the dispensers in the shower will take longer than placing daily bottles -- think of the time to enter the shower/tub to clean and replace the bottles versus putting them on the sink. Replacing isn't daily but cleaning is. Then the unlocking/replacing is certainly in the minutes, rather than seconds, albeit not on a daily basis. Additionally, I'd factor in a slight increase in workplace injuries since a housekeeper is going to trip occasionally when entered the tub to replace these. And that doesn't take into account the cost of negotiating with the unions in Hawaii, NYC, SF, etc. who will seek to negotiate something over this or grieve the change in working conditions. And, if Marriott does the right think by refilling the bottles rather than tossing them, costs will be even higher.

So, while I'm not going to do a time and motion study and would be a bit rusty, I'm fairly confident this increases housekeeping time, which is a variable cost since housekeepers are not usually on a fixed hourly week. This definitely won't be a money saver.

Getting rid of plastic bottles is the way of the world. The problem, of course, is that getting rid of them in North America, Europe, Australia, and Japan won't really solve the plastic bottle problem.

JBord Sep 3, 19 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by C17PSGR (Post 31486612)

So, while I'm not going to do a time and motion study and would be a bit rusty, I'm fairly confident this increases housekeeping time, which is a variable cost since housekeepers are not usually on a fixed hourly week. This definitely won't be a money saver.

Getting rid of plastic bottles is the way of the world. The problem, of course, is that getting rid of them in North America, Europe, Australia, and Japan won't really solve the plastic bottle problem.

I'm sure you have more expertise in this than I, but I would hope they're already entering and cleaning the tub on a daily basis anyway. You're probably right that replacing a dispenser takes longer -- but even if it's 10x longer, they may only do it 10% of the time compared to daily bottles. Even if it takes an extra 2 mins per room per day, I'd guess they just make up that time somewhere else to fit it into the daily shift. When tasked with extra work but no more pay, it can be surprising how much more efficient an individual worker can become. And then you have the cost savings of the product itself, as there is theoretically less wasted soap.

And I agree with your last sentence. Not only will it not solve the problem, it's questionable if it will even significantly impact it. But I'm generally in favor of starting somewhere as long as it isn't outweighed by the negative outcomes.

GUWonder Sep 3, 19 1:34 pm

People may become more efficient or sloppier when asked to do more work for the same allotment of time and/or money.

Given my experience with these kind of hotel transitions to wall-mounted toiletry dispensers, I would say the hotels/housekeepers have become sloppier and that is why I encounter worse hotel toiletry-related service failures now than ever before.

Some more may start to carry a soap bar or two on their trips and maybe start with complaining and asking for goodwill gestures /compensation for toiletry-related service failures in their rooms, whether or not impacted by the toiletry-related service failures encountered.

brittex Sep 3, 19 6:37 pm

My wall dispenser at a Marriott property
I don’t like this move. I will not use wall dispensers.


brittex Sep 3, 19 6:44 pm

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...0fb5cbe03.jpeg
here you go - not nice

melissaru Sep 3, 19 7:45 pm

What the hell is that?! Looks like a soap dispenser I just used in the ATL airport! Was this just a regular, full-service Marriott?

melissaru Sep 3, 19 8:00 pm


Originally Posted by quinella66 (Post 31482581)
Certainly the driver behind this it cost savings that just happens to align with environmental PR. Same was true when they tried to get guests to reuse towels.

Soap dispensers on the wall give it a feel like a public restroom which is not great for high end properties. If Iím staying at an aloft that is already the case, and understandable but I canít see top properties doing that. I noticed the St Regis bottles are bigger even now so maybe they will stay. The bottles also help to market and sell the better products - I remember taking the leftover bliss from a W hotel and then we liked it enough to order it online.

if they do this for the lower end properties like courtyard, Fairfield, etc. then that would be the majority of the cost and environment savings. If people are paying north of $500 for a room, they probably donít want a common use dispenser or bottle.

Agree completely on the last point. Recently stayed at the JW Parq Vancouver for $500-plus a night. Lovely room and hotel. Walked into the bathroom and suddenly it felt like I was at the municipal pool. I don't care if they were Molton Brown products. I'd prefer to not have them bolted to the shower wall when I'm spending $2k for a long weekend (also, how are these refilled if not constantly from the top? They're just regular screw-top pump bottles.)?

brittex Sep 3, 19 8:05 pm

This was a Four Points
Which I otherwise like quite a lot

Dr. HFH Sep 3, 19 9:14 pm


Originally Posted by brittex (Post 31487641)
My wall dispenser at a Marriott property
I don’t like this move. I will not use wall dispensers.


Originally Posted by brittex (Post 31487848)
This was a Four Points


Originally Posted by brittex (Post 31487848)

Which I otherwise like quite a lot

OK. For starters, it's a 4P, not a StR. Looking at your photo, I see no dirt or mold. It's the natural little bit of extra soap, that last drop which is sometimes smeared as someone pulls their hand away. Is it perfectly clean? Nah. Is it up to standards? Undoubtedly not. But you had to bend down to look up at the dispenser to see it, didn't you. I can't view this as a war crime. I agree, it shouldn't be that way. But in the comprehensive catalogue of theoretically possible housekeeping failures, this particular one really isn't terribly high on the list, given that there is no mold, no dirt. At least not on my list.

GUWonder Sep 3, 19 10:47 pm

From that photo, itís not possible to accurately determine that there is no mold or dirt. Whether such dispenser is worse than bathroom shower-heads ó especially ones with plastic on or around the nozzles/shower-heads ó is a point to consider, whether itís at a Four Points or at a St Regis/Luxury Collection.

About the notion that luxury hotels should be contributing less per guest to ďsave the worldĒ measures than more mass market hotels, that just seems to be the kind of thing that deserves to be awarded a prize in hypocrisy and recognized as a travel-related version of NIMBY attitudes.

storewanderer Sep 3, 19 11:02 pm

Any service failure relating to these dispensers that is not resolved immediately by the property providing product (be it new dispensers or the old single use bottles), and I will be demanding some sort of small compensation and filing complaints with the corporate office.

The only way this stupid move will ever be somehow at least countered with solutions (single use bottles upon request) will be if people complain when service failures take place.

I think proper providing of adequate shampoo in a functioning dispenser or single use bottle is rather important in a hotel room at a mid market or upper end hotel chain. This isn't Motel 6.

GUWonder Sep 4, 19 12:23 am

The hotels forgetting to put soap in the refillable dispensers may hit a lot more hotel customers at the wrong time and worse than the hotels forgetting the shampoo.

Just wait until an adult or baby diaper change goes wrong in a Marriott room where the soap dispenser was useless for the hotel customers when it was most needed.

Word of wisdom to hotel room occupants: check that the soap dispenser works and seems to be soap before itís a bit too late. Why? Because the hotels will fail you more when it comes to refillable soap dispensers than when it comes to wrapped soap bars in the hotel bathrooms.

eccentricfusion Sep 4, 19 12:49 am

The W Bangkok had a good approach with small single use bottles for regular rooms and larger (4oz and 8oz bottles) for suites. I ended up taking a bunch home since my wife enjoys Bliss products and it makes us think about the W Bangkok every time we use those products at home. Great for the environment, but I still think they should offer larger bottles to take, especially for the luxury brands, since it is one of those things that make you think about the hotel and going back.


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