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-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

EuropeanPete Aug 30, 19 3:50 am


Originally Posted by wysiwyg (Post 31472720)
Hotels are quick to switch for the so called environmental reasons. I wonder how quickly airlines will be willing to switch from plastic cutlery in coach and provide us with metal utensils which can be seen to some as being more environmentally friendly (if you ignore cleaning/soap impact). Iím sure they wonít be as quick due to added cost and weight.

You answered your own question there. Switching to metal cutlery and burning extra fuel isnít an environmentally friendly move.

GUWonder Aug 30, 19 5:25 am

Plastic cutlery and other disposable such meal-related plastic service-ware used by airlines is petrochemical product in the main and fills up garbage trucks and landfills/incinerators. Maybe itís best for the environment to ban people from having more than one child and ban travel entirely unless itís just on your own feet and involves no wheels nor wings, eh? ;) Marriott will love that. Not!

Collierkr Aug 30, 19 7:27 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31471024)


Itís not necessarily all ďgoodĒ for the planet. This kind of hotel move undermines Infection prevention, and undermined infection prevention leads to increased consumption of antibiotics and all the bad that can mean.

aside from the fact I completely disagree, there is little to no evidence to support this. The doorknob, toilet handle, and tv remote are what you should be worried about AND if germs are that big of an issue then you should bring your own stuff.

Collierkr Aug 30, 19 7:32 am


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31471472)
As currently implemented by Marriott, I'm not sure there really is an environmental benefit. Here's what is currently being used in the limited-service properties: https://www.mariettahospitality.com/...A+Tea+Tree.php

As you may note, they're only 8 oz, non-refillable bottles, complete with a permanently-attached pump dispenser. The current single-use bottles are either 2oz or 1oz depending upon the property. So, 1 dispenser pump bottle = 4-8 regular bottles. Prima-facia it seems like a good deal, BUT what's the real environmental cost? These are single-use bottles and can't be recycled -- there's multiple types of plastic AND most likely a metal spring inside of there, so they're heading straight for the landfill. Seriously, I'll see if I can snag an empty bottle from the hotel this weekend and do a proper teardown with photos for everyone & weigh out the components.

As a side note:
1) Cradle-to-grave, a Mercedes S-Class, including all of the gasoline it will consume in its lifetime, is more environmentally-friendly and puts out less CO2 than a Prius.
2) Cows are quite windy. (We can't have a 100+ post thread on FT without some mention of breaking wind, right?) The result is ~2300kg of CO2 per year. A car puts out ~108g/km. Do the math and you'll find that a single cow's farts in a year are equivalent to driving 21,296km (13,232 miles).
3) I guess if you want to be environmentally-friendly, drive a Mercedes S-Class instead of a Prius and eat more cows to keep them destroying the Earth. .

was wondering where you were going with the cow comment as I thought maybe you were going to suggest their eradication.

pinniped Aug 30, 19 8:03 am


Originally Posted by Collierkr (Post 31473224)


was wondering where you were going with the cow comment as I thought maybe you were going to suggest their eradication.

[Insert that "had us in the first half, not gonna lie" meme here.]

Zeeb Aug 30, 19 8:54 am


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31471465)
I'm nor pretending - I'm stating. Airport lounge showers and public restrooms have had dispensers for years.

unless you can cite an example, I do not believe there is a known epidemic or infectious disease problem that has been linked to soap dispensers.

1) Public Restrooms and Airport lounge showers don't provide someone multiday private access in an entirely uncontrolled environment.
2) Nobody is talking about an epidemic. As I posted earlier in the thread, I think that 99.9% of the time there will be no issue at all. The whole objection is that when I go to a name brand hotel I don't want to have to wonder if I'm running in to that 0.1% situation.

JBord Aug 30, 19 9:40 am


Originally Posted by Collierkr (Post 31470990)


sad that so many fail to see the good this type of approach will have for our planet. Sure it saves money because there is less waste.

It saves money because it costs Marriott less to purchase bulk refills than small bottles. I doubt it has any significant effect on any single property's garbage bill. They probably still use the same number of dumpsters with the same number of pickups. I mean, really, all the bottles in all the rooms of a CY every day maybe fills one garbage bag?

In my post that you quoted, I stated that it's good for the environment - yet you accuse me and others of failing to see that? The point is, that if another new technology is invented for toiletries that saves Marriott even more money, they'll switch to that one, whether it's better or worse for the environment. The fact that they can claim this as environmentally friendly is a happy coincidence, and I don't fault them for taking the opportunity to get the good press. But large companies do this stuff to save money.

As one example of many I have in working with big corporations, I recall an executive telling me about an initiative to get rid of styrofoam coffee cups in the break room, and asking employees to bring in their own mugs and wash them. She explained to me how much cheaper it was to supply dish soap in each break room than the ~$1M (IIRC) they spent on styrofoam cups each year, and how they could advertise it as "green" to employees. This example is not uncommon.



Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666 (Post 31472302)
Great, now I can look forward to:

1) Dispensers not filled up, needed to call management, wait 30 minutes to 2 hours for someone to come and do the refill, and after-hours, tough luck, sleep dirty.

4) Broken dispensers that makes it hard to get anything out. Call for service? Wait wait and wait, and again, after-hours? Sleep dirty.

These are two problems I expect as well, although I think it will probably be only 1-2 times per year. I often get into my hotel the night before a meeting and get up and go the next day. No way I'll think to check the soap dispenser in each room. So a 30 min delay in the morning likely means I'm not showering, because I won't be late to my client's meeting. That bar of soap never lets me down, and I feel cleaner than with the liquid soap. :)

chipmaster Aug 30, 19 10:17 am

A new superbug is being developed and soon it will jump out of your bulk soap/shampoo/conditioner, then after another a few generations of mutation a strain will emerge and it will grow teeth or enzymes to burrow thru your skin and the end will have arrived.

Sorry maybe that is why I find water good enough unless I'm covered is something really nasty and need a little something to break it loose.

WillBarrett_68 Aug 30, 19 10:17 am


Originally Posted by Zeeb (Post 31473490)
2) Nobody is talking about an epidemic. As I posted earlier in the thread, I think that 99.9% of the time there will be no issue at all. The whole objection is that when I go to a name brand hotel I don't want to have to wonder if I'm running in to that 0.1% situation.

Right, this is all psychological. You're worried about shampoo when the entire room (not to mention trillions of other things you come in contact with every day) is already a "potential infection vector" or whatever.

chipmaster Aug 30, 19 10:19 am


Originally Posted by JBord (Post 31473658)
It saves money because it costs Marriott less to purchase bulk refills than small bottles. I doubt it has any significant effect on any single property's garbage bill. They probably still use the same number of dumpsters with the same number of pickups. I mean, really, all the bottles in all the rooms of a CY every day maybe fills one garbage bag?

In my post that you quoted, I stated that it's good for the environment - yet you accuse me and others of failing to see that? The point is, that if another new technology is invented for toiletries that saves Marriott even more money, they'll switch to that one, whether it's better or worse for the environment. The fact that they can claim this as environmentally friendly is a happy coincidence, and I don't fault them for taking the opportunity to get the good press. But large companies do this stuff to save money.

As one example of many I have in working with big corporations, I recall an executive telling me about an initiative to get rid of styrofoam coffee cups in the break room, and asking employees to bring in their own mugs and wash them. She explained to me how much cheaper it was to supply dish soap in each break room than the ~$1M (IIRC) they spent on styrofoam cups each year, and how they could advertise it as "green" to employees. This example is not uncommon.




These are two problems I expect as well, although I think it will probably be only 1-2 times per year. I often get into my hotel the night before a meeting and get up and go the next day. No way I'll think to check the soap dispenser in each room. So a 30 min delay in the morning likely means I'm not showering, because I won't be late to my client's meeting. That bar of soap never lets me down, and I feel cleaner than with the liquid soap. :)

Shower with lots of water not clean enough? What you been sleeping in, or eating and sweating????

WillBarrett_68 Aug 30, 19 10:20 am


Originally Posted by Zeeb (Post 31473490)
1) Public Restrooms and Airport lounge showers don't provide someone multiday private access in an entirely uncontrolled environment.

I'm picturing that scene in Pacific Heights where Michael Keaton is drilling and sawing and hammering in his rental unit, except he's in a hotel trying to break into the shampoo

GUWonder Aug 30, 19 10:31 am


Originally Posted by chipmaster (Post 31473791)
A new superbug is being developed and soon it will jump out of your bulk soap/shampoo/conditioner, then after another a few generations of mutation a strain will emerge and it will grow teeth or enzymes to burrow thru your skin and the end will have arrived.

Sorry maybe that is why I find water good enough unless I'm covered is something really nasty and need a little something to break it loose.


Originally Posted by chipmaster (Post 31473798)
Shower with lots of water not clean enough?

Undermining of infection prevention measures ó and a move to manual-pump shared toiletry dispensers does that ó means increased antibiotic use. And what does increased antibiotic use mean? It means more drug-resistant bacteria in an environment where investing in new antibiotics isnít as productive as it used to be 40+ years ago.

Water by itself doesnít decrease bacterial count on skin surfaces anywhere close to as well as the use of warm high-pressure, soapy water derived from rather clean soap. Queue a lesson about ionization and phase behavior of fatty acids in water? ;)

s0ssos Aug 30, 19 10:44 am


Originally Posted by Zeeb (Post 31473490)
1) Public Restrooms and Airport lounge showers don't provide someone multiday private access in an entirely uncontrolled environment.
2) Nobody is talking about an epidemic. As I posted earlier in the thread, I think that 99.9% of the time there will be no issue at all. The whole objection is that when I go to a name brand hotel I don't want to have to wonder if I'm running in to that 0.1% situation.

I'm pretty sure when you stay at your multiple hundreds of dollars a night hotel you are already in the 0.1% in the world.

s0ssos Aug 30, 19 10:47 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31473839)
Undermining of infection prevention measures ó and a move to manual-pump shared toiletry dispensers does that ó means increased antibiotic use. And what does increased antibiotic use mean? It means more drug-resistant bacteria in an environment where investing in new antibiotics isnít as productive as it used to be 40+ years ago.

Water by itself doesnít decrease bacterial count on skin surfaces anywhere close to as well as the use of warm high-pressure, soapy water derived from rather clean soap. Queue a lesson about ionization and phase behavior of fatty acids in water? ;)

I don't think you understand infection prevention/control measures. It isn't about "sanitizing" everything. In fact, the prevalence of hand sanitizers probably is worse for antibiotic resistance (as in creates more) than anything else.
Cleanliness is not next to godliness. And not a goal to be achieved by everyone.

As for "investing" in antibiotics, pharmaceuticals don't "invest" in things to help or be productive. They do it to make money. If there were money in it ...

cmd320 Aug 30, 19 10:56 am


Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 (Post 31473793)
Right, this is all psychological. You're worried about shampoo when the entire room (not to mention trillions of other things you come in contact with every day) is already a "potential infection vector" or whatever.

For me this is less about the bacteria aspect of it and more about the tampering aspect of it. Many of the mini bottles have tops that are extremely difficult to remove, plus, they're replaced after every stay. In contrast, when you look at these large dispensers, they have tops that are easily unscrewable and I'm guessing they're not going to be replaced after each guest. I suppose I have the option to unscrew the top myself, empty all of the contents down the drain and request a new bottle, however this seems tedious and wasteful.

With things people can tamper with who knows what could be in there. Urine, semen, fecal matter, acid, Nair, whatever. Yes, in 99.9% of cases there will probably be no issue, however there's plenty of sick people out there and I'm not really willing to risk it. Personally.


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