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-   Marriott | Marriott Bonvoy (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy-766/)
-   -   Marriott to Eliminate Single-use Toiletry Bottles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marriott-marriott-bonvoy/1984883-marriott-eliminate-single-use-toiletry-bottles.html)

Dr. HFH Aug 29, 19 3:27 am


Originally Posted by gengar (Post 31469079)
That's not the issue being discussed.

Thanks for your correction. :rolleyes:

I disagree with you, but that's neither here nor there.

GUWonder Aug 29, 19 4:48 am


Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer (Post 31469113)
The press stories say all hotels, though the luxury brands need more time to work on the solution so they will be the last to change over. So even the RC should join the trend. I guess there could be single serve ones in request until stock runs out. Or they will have both until stock is depleted.

Why do they not seem sanitary as a general statement? Sure there are hotels that have problems with cleaning properly, there are bad apples in every business. But they will have unsanitary conditions whether they have dispensers or not.

The reason a lot of public facility restrooms have gone to having automatic, “touch-less” dispensers for soap, water and paper/cloth towels is because the manual dispensers tend to; be more disgusting, encourage more paper/plastic use to avoid skin contact; more metering/throttling of use/misuse; and more often getting broken by physical contact more than automated, “touch-less” dispensers.

Bad apple or good apple housekeepers, the shared wall-mounted dispensers requiring skin contact tend to have a more heterogenous contaminant pool than single-use toiletries.

If you want to know how some deal with hotel TV remote controls, door knobs, locks and light switches, just look at what is sold in the travel toiletries section of department stores and pharmacies: disinfecting wipes, disinfectant sprays/gels and more.

Are laundered PJs as commonly washed by travel service providers with the water at 60C-90C temperatures as bed linens and towels and using at least as robust anti-pathogen chemicals?

AlanInDC Aug 29, 19 4:48 am


Originally Posted by btonkid12345 (Post 31468364)
I never use bar soap. I also find it to be extremely wasteful relative to liquid soap. The Fairmont in the North End in Boston used to recycle the leftover soap, collecting them and sending them to be re-formulated and donated. Only place that I've ever heard of anything so thoughtful.

I also hope they don't refill bottles. The "permanent dispensers" like at a Four Points stink - but I don't mind, for example, CYs where they replace the ENTIRE BOTTLE and pump when it runs out. Housekeeping just has new full bottles on their cart.

I also think they should rollout a sanitizing routine for the parts of the pumps that come into contact with hands. Just make it clear that every Housekeeper MUST sterilize the pumps daily. If that occurred, would be very appropriate for the premium and luxury Bonvoy brands.

No need to waste. I have a small zip-loc in my toiletry kit. The leftover soap goes in there, either to use at the next hotel stop or at home. If at a hotel, then I just take home the intact soap in a box and start with the leftover soap.

tarheelnj Aug 29, 19 5:54 am


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31468259)
Glass in showers is scary, period. Last thing needed for a sleepy/tired/drunk/hungover/
<insert scenario here> person to knock or break a glass bottle in the shower.

Lower or higher end, it's easy to miss a small glass shard.

Most recent stay was at a CY with the bottles on the wall. About 20 minutes after my shower on the last day, I heard a crash in the bathroom. I found the whole apparatus on the floor. I just set it on the counter right outside the bathroom and told the FD clerk on the way out. Lots of ways that could have turned out worse, particularly if the containers were glass.

Badenoch Aug 29, 19 5:55 am

Good for Marriott. They can improve their bottom line, send virtue-signalling press releases to their potential clients and curry favor among the eco-obsessed.

This is of little consequence to me as I don't use hotel toiletries regardless of how they are dispensed. I bring my own because smell is a powerful emotion and I feel better in far-away foreign lands when I smell the same as at home. The dispensers are ignored and the dinky little bottles are cleared off the limited counter space found in most hotel bathrooms never to be seen again. The impossible to hold postage-stamp size bars of soap are replaced with an grownup version of my preferred brand.

Although my toiletry habits have absolutely nothing to do with reducing plastic I will, like Marriott, showcase my behavior and bask in the glowing approval of the environmental elites. ;)

Antarius Aug 29, 19 6:10 am


Originally Posted by KRSW (Post 31468635)
The dispensers are absolutely disgusting. Here's what greeted me at a Four Points last month. That mold didn't get that way overnight. Despite mentioning it to the front desk, nothing was done about it. If the outside looks this bad, what's on the inside? I should point out that all three dispensers looked like this.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...e4d5f51a5f.jpg



Except...sadly... Plastic honestly isn't recycled, even if you put it in the appropriate bin. This is especially true in countries which claim very high % of recycling, such as Germany, Austria, and Sweden. Dirty little secret: They claim tossing the plastics into incinerators is "recycling" since they're converting waste to heat/energy. Do some research on it and you'll be surprised.

The real solution on this is to have the TSA get rid of the bull**** liquid/gel restrictions. At that point I'd be more than happy to carry my own toiletries with me.

this sounds like a hotel issue, not a dispenser issue. There are enough seams and corners in a shower for mold to grow - there was probably more elsewhere too.

GUWonder Aug 29, 19 6:21 am


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31469417)
this sounds like a hotel issue, not a dispenser issue. There are enough seams and corners in a shower for mold to grow - there was probably more elsewhere too.

Wall-mounted dispensers provide additional surface area for longer-term mold development while also providing for additional collection points of moisture and mold “food” to pool in ways that make mold development worse in bathrooms than is the case in similarly used bathrooms without wall-mounted dispensers.
Another dispenser issue is that the wall mounts can break and even cause injury in a way that single-use toiletries can’t so easily cause. And even with or without guests getting injured, the hotels may try to claim injury so as to get hotel guests to pay for the breaking of wall-mount dispensers even as that kind of breaking should be considered part of normal wear and tear at times.
Single-use toiletries are possible without relying upon plastic containers/wraps. But the hotels don’t want to pay up for them when this kind of move is driven by cost-cutting more than by trying to drive the plastics suppliers out of business.

CPH-Flyer Aug 29, 19 7:43 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 31469253)


The reason a lot of public facility restrooms have gone to having automatic, “touch-less” dispensers for soap, water and paper/cloth towels is because the manual dispensers tend to; be more disgusting, encourage more paper/plastic use to avoid skin contact; more metering/throttling of use/misuse; and more often getting broken by physical contact more than automated, “touch-less” dispensers.

Bad apple or good apple housekeepers, the shared wall-mounted dispensers requiring skin contact tend to have a more heterogenous contaminant pool than single-use toiletries.

If you want to know how some deal with hotel TV remote controls, door knobs, locks and light switches, just look at what is sold in the travel toiletries section of department stores and pharmacies: disinfecting wipes, disinfectant sprays/gels and more.

Are laundered PJs as commonly washed by travel service providers with the water at 60C-90C temperatures as bed linens and towels and using at least as robust anti-pathogen chemicals?

I would like to see the medical literature documenting an infectious disease picked up from using a hotel TV remote control.

Can't say I visited ANA's facility for laundering their J class PJs, but to be honest I would not find it concerning. That is one of the places where I have encounter the laundered PJ discussions, it could go hand in hand with the borrowed sports wear at gyms in hotels and for the now shelved idea of a gym in th Cathay lounges (yoga room came though).

I am not saying the dispensers can't build up to a sanitary problem in hotels, just the the assumption as a matter of principle that it always, or even frequently, will is wrong. And where they do, the dispensere are not a cause but part of the effect of the problem

I also find the reference to plastic glasses in the rooms mildly amusing. That is one that alternates between 'So disgusting to have glasses instead of platoc cups as housekeeping won't clean them properly" and "Outrageous cost cutting to remove the glasses for plastic cups" There is just no positive way out for the hotel operators...
​​​​​

cmd320 Aug 29, 19 7:47 am


Originally Posted by Dr. HFH (Post 31469008)
So your position is that unless Marriott gets rid of all plastic bottles, there's zero environmental benefit?

No, my position is that this is nothing more than cutting costs. Whatever environmental benefit that may (I'm not really sold on the idea that there will be an real tangible benefit here) exist will be negligible and customers will be left with these terrible wall-mounted dispensers.

stimpy Aug 29, 19 7:48 am


Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer (Post 31469691)
I also find the reference to plastic glasses in the rooms mildly amusing. That is one that alternates between 'So disgusting to have glasses instead of platoc cups as housekeeping won't clean them properly" and "Outrageous cost cutting to remove the glasses for plastic cups" There is just no positive way out for the hotel operators...
​​​​​

Who ever said that glasses aren't cleaned by hotel maids? And if you find an unclean glass in your room, what is stopping you from cleaning it yourself? Plastic cups in hotel rooms is a new cost cutting effort. They never existed previously. We have done fine for a very long time with glass. Sorry but unclean glasses is a false argument. Saving the environment is not a false argument.

WillBarrett_68 Aug 29, 19 8:13 am


Originally Posted by kaizen7 (Post 31467259)

I wonder if staff empty the bottle and clean them thoroughly after guest check out?

are you serious?

WillBarrett_68 Aug 29, 19 8:19 am

From a psychological point of view, this thread is absolutely fascinating. I wasn't aware people A) worry about catching ebola from shampoo and B) think people are hatching elaborate plots to contaminate soap

WillBarrett_68 Aug 29, 19 8:20 am


Originally Posted by Collierkr (Post 31468308)


what you can’t bring your own razors?

I seriously doubt he needs them on a regular basis but we've all been caught on the road without one item or another, haven't we? It's usually easy enough to pop in a drug store but if the front desk has the item all the better.

KRSW Aug 29, 19 8:21 am


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 31468940)
We will know that Marriott truly cares about the environment when they remove the single use plastic cups from their rooms and put back the glasses they used to have. That would really make me happy.

THIS! Worse, they're usually wrapped in plastic on top of it. Adding insult to injury, the plastic cups I've seen at the lower-end Marriott properties were so darn thin that they were almost unusable. As much as I love the SHS in Anchorage, they had these cups. After the first night I went next door to Walmart and picked up an $0.88 stemless wine glass, which has become my usual when I encounter such properties. Maybe it's just me, but I find it's something far more enjoyable drinking out of a glass than plastic cup.


Originally Posted by Antarius (Post 31469417)
this sounds like a hotel issue, not a dispenser issue. There are enough seams and corners in a shower for mold to grow - there was probably more elsewhere too.

The rest of the shower was clean actually. There was a little spot of mold growing on the ceiling, but that's about it. I'm definitely willing to bet that the mold growing on/around the dispensers was a problem at more rooms than just mine.

It's one more place, one more complication, that can lead to a service failure for the guest. Let's be honest -- housekeeping staff are usually the lowest-paid employees at a hotel. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Best to take the McDonald's approach with this and try to engineer out as many points of failure as you can.


Originally Posted by Badenoch (Post 31469373)
This is of little consequence to me as I don't use hotel toiletries regardless of how they are dispensed. I bring my own because smell is a powerful emotion and I feel better in far-away foreign lands when I smell the same as at home

I'd love to bring my own stuff, but the TSA still believes in Hollywood movie plots and fairytales, so I can't carry my toiletries with me. Sidenote: Take a look at the latest TSA ban -- empty coke bottles that resemble Looney-Tunes style bombs. EMPTY bottles...


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 31468711)
Did you calculate that the big bottles use more plastic? Quite a few calculations for you there. Can you show your work?

I'm staying at a property which has the dreaded wall pump dispensers tomorrow. I'll see if I can snag an empty bottle. Nothing a small accurate scale can't figure out. Lord knows I have plenty of the little bottles at home to compare it to. :D

CPH-Flyer Aug 29, 19 8:34 am


Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 31469703)
Who ever said that glasses aren't cleaned by hotel maids? And if you find an unclean glass in your room, what is stopping you from cleaning it yourself? Plastic cups in hotel rooms is a new cost cutting effort. They never existed previously. We have done fine for a very long time with glass. Sorry but unclean glasses is a false argument. Saving the environment is not a false argument.

You should Google hotel forums a bit, it has been a recurring topic. People claiming that cleaning of the glasses can't be trusted. One argument being that housekeeping never seem to have new glasses on their carts, I.e. the housekeepers just wash the glasses in the sink in the bathroom.

If I find the glass I the bathroom to be less clean that desirable, I will just have them replaced. It is not a big deal, and not me complaining on the topic.


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