USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2014-2016)
Oct 30, 2016, 12:55 am
#5416
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Tim Horton's in Canada seems to be on no CVM when I insert the Chip and Signature card there for $1.49 but I only made one purchase there and it is unlikely I will be returning for any more stale donuts.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
Oct 30, 2016, 2:00 am
#5417
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Tim Horton's in Canada seems to be on no CVM when I insert the Chip and Signature card there for $1.49 but I only made one purchase there and it is unlikely I will be returning for any more stale donuts.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
Also in Canada I'm guessing it isn't normal to key in loyalty card numbers on the PIN pad etc like in the US.
Oct 30, 2016, 4:16 pm
#5418
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
In Canada, MasterCard discontinued QPS in October 2013, having contactless (PayPass/Tap & Go) as the only No CVM option.
VISA discontinued VEPS in October 2015, having contactless (payWave) as the only No CVM option.
However, both QPS and VEPS in Canada did not override the requirements for PIN to be entered, so they actually had little effect.
AMEX does offer a no signature/no PIN programme for transactions up to $50 CAD applicable to swiped/EMV contact for select merchant categories.
Oct 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
#5419
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Also in Canada I'm guessing it isn't normal to key in loyalty card numbers on the PIN pad etc like in the US.
Oct 30, 2016, 4:29 pm
#5420
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Tim Horton's in Canada seems to be on no CVM when I insert the Chip and Signature card there for $1.49 but I only made one purchase there and it is unlikely I will be returning for any more stale donuts.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
I went to a number of US based merchants in Canada today and was shocked at the set ups I saw.
Bed Bath and Beyond: has the same IBM POS as in the US but no customer facing equipment at all. They have a non-integrated First Data card reader and pinpad and they hand you the pinpad only after they insert your card first. They support Contactless but it runs as MSD Contactless. After the First Data reader prints the sales draft they have to go back over to the IBM register and key in the invoice number onto the receipt. Then they staple the First Data receipt to the IBM POS receipt and give it to the customer.
7-Eleven: same NCR POS as in the US; the 7-Eleven app from the US even works here. But the card processing is a non-integrated terminal supporting EMV (Contactless and Contactless. They key in the amount of the sale into the terminal and then it processes. On the itemized NCR receipt it shows "IMPRINT" for payment type.
Petsmart: same NCR POS as in the US. There is a small Canada style customer facing pinpad stationed in an identical manner to the US with a NO TAP sticker. But it is a semi-integrated set up. Once the cashier totals all items, the cashier presses a function key and the entire NCR POS goes gray and says pinpad processing and the only option is to cancel/reset. The credit/debit receipt then prints from a little stand alone printer below the main register and they staple the NCR receipt to the credit card receipt. The customer in front of me was trying to pay with her debit card and she inserted a few times and it kept failing. Then she tried a credit card and inserting that failed too. There were enough fails that the customer swiped her card and signed for the purchase. I was able to complete a Chip transaction successfully but had to sign.
Best Buy in Canada was interesting. NCR POS with Verifone MX915s. Did not buy anything so not sure if they accept tap or not. Real Canadian Superstore has also deployed MX915s.
Interesting that US Retailers operating in Canada have such jerry rigged set ups for accepting credit/debit up here. No wonder they had so much trouble getting things set up in the US. Seeing Bed Bath and Beyond and Petsmart with these cheesy set ups with stand alone terminals and stapling a credit receipt to the itemized receipt is really sad.
Oct 30, 2016, 4:37 pm
#5421
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Whole Foods no longer ask for amount confirmation with contactless credit cards. I tapped, cashier chose the tender, and it approved in <1s. Crazy fast. Still MSD. I haven't used debit at Whole Foods in a while so I'm not sure if they ditched PIN and cashback on tap debit to achieve the same thing.
Oct 30, 2016, 6:21 pm
#5422
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Oct 30, 2016, 9:31 pm
#5423
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Oct 31, 2016, 1:05 am
#5424
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Dollar Tree is another US Retailer in Canada who has a stand alone terminal for card processing. Similar to Bed Bath and Beyond this terminal is on the cashier side and then swivels around only for the customer to enter pin. They are supporting tap, at least.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Oct 31, 2016, 5:53 am
#5426
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Dollar Tree is another US Retailer in Canada who has a stand alone terminal for card processing. Similar to Bed Bath and Beyond this terminal is on the cashier side and then swivels around only for the customer to enter pin. They are supporting tap, at least.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Oct 31, 2016, 3:23 pm
#5427
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
Dollar Tree is another US Retailer in Canada who has a stand alone terminal for card processing. Similar to Bed Bath and Beyond this terminal is on the cashier side and then swivels around only for the customer to enter pin. They are supporting tap, at least.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Hudson News is also using a stand alone terminal in Canada but has their IBM POS like in the US. They have a small customer facing pinpad at least.
These US retailers should be embarrassed.
It is odd how some of the US retailers got their systems to work fine with the new Canada processing. Even Safeway Canada had its old IBM 4680s able to do semi-integrated tap/swipe/insert a couple years ago (since replaced by some archaic poorly functioning NCRs by Sobeys the new owner of Canada Safeway which cannot support tap for all card types and the cashier has to ask if you are using Interarc, MasterCard, Visa, etc and tell the register exactly what card type you are using in order to activate the pinpad).
Another interesting thing is Wal Mart US issued gift cards do not work in Canada.
Of course, now that the US has EMV too, some of these places that use the same POSes may very well switch to the setup that their US stores have. Which may very well be a downgrade in usability in some respects (for instance, contactless may end up going away).
Oct 31, 2016, 6:00 pm
#5428
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Living in a fairly large city I guess has its perks. So I went to a Paradise Bakery which now has Mx925s but behind a glass faux countertop that is stupidly high!!! (Tweeted them about this but alas nothing!) I asked about Apple Pay and she picked up the terminal and handed it to me, and tells me how plenty of other people already have done so. Another stop was a local mom and pop liquor store and he handed me the Vx520, because someone else already "trained" them! I guess it's seeing more use that other people are "training" the stores so I don't have to. And as you know when I do, I'm pretty "adamant" they take my form of payment ;-)
The thing that bothers me is the stupid stupid glass at paradise! They stupidly built this dumb ADA incompliant setup where even a user in a wheelchair can't hand over regular card/cash over that thing! I wonder how they even plan on mounting the MX925s now in this case. The cashier even hates the glass but stated that it's used as a "sneeze guard"...:gee I'm sorry that the poor customer may have sneezed on your NCR and Mx925! Lol!
Also it seems every paradise bakery in my area is built the same stupid way! Hopefully they'll get rid of it during a remodel or something!
The thing that bothers me is the stupid stupid glass at paradise! They stupidly built this dumb ADA incompliant setup where even a user in a wheelchair can't hand over regular card/cash over that thing! I wonder how they even plan on mounting the MX925s now in this case. The cashier even hates the glass but stated that it's used as a "sneeze guard"...:gee I'm sorry that the poor customer may have sneezed on your NCR and Mx925! Lol!
Also it seems every paradise bakery in my area is built the same stupid way! Hopefully they'll get rid of it during a remodel or something!
Oct 31, 2016, 6:27 pm
#5429
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,508
While that's good, I still don't believe that customers should need to be training stores on how to use their own equipment. That demonstrates a huge failure on the part of the store and/or the merchant provider.
And then there's the more practical aspect: in the time it takes to train a store clerk to use contactless, one could have used EMV and been out the door already. (On the other hand, it may save time in the future--if the "training" is reinforced by future customers using it, that is.)
On that note I saw an Apple Pay sticker in the window of the sit-down Chinese restaurant behind my work today. I have no idea if that was from the previous owners though; I didn't see anything terminal-looking sitting on the customer side of the fairly tall host station/payment counter.
And then there's the more practical aspect: in the time it takes to train a store clerk to use contactless, one could have used EMV and been out the door already. (On the other hand, it may save time in the future--if the "training" is reinforced by future customers using it, that is.)
On that note I saw an Apple Pay sticker in the window of the sit-down Chinese restaurant behind my work today. I have no idea if that was from the previous owners though; I didn't see anything terminal-looking sitting on the customer side of the fairly tall host station/payment counter.
Oct 31, 2016, 6:44 pm
#5430
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Even prior to EMV in Canada, many merchants who had fully-integrated credit card processing had a semi-integrated or stand-alone setup for Interac, and just moved to that model for EMV. Almost no PCI compliance or EMV certification costs.
It's also important to point out that 'semi-integrated' does not always mean at a hardware level. In many instances, it is essentially a middle-ware software layer running on a different system that is not part of the POS and interfaces through an API.