emmanuel_t

I haven't been to Subway in a few months, but I was mildly upset when they made that change. Their receipts didn't tell me the last four so I needed the charge slip for that.

tmiw

Some interesting info on why contactless cards occasionally decline in the US: http://blog.themembersgroup.com/2016...tion-declines/

Though that's probably a moot point considering how rare they still are.

cjw2001

There are about 12 million Costco Citibank dual interface cards now in circulation - not sure I'd call that rare.

tmiw

There are a billion credit and debit cards in the US. I'd call ~1% of them "not common" at least.

AllieKat

I don't understand why people on a site like this are "reluctant to try" using contactless at a place displaying the contactless logo. The world doesn't explode if it declines.

I face contactless declines all the time because I use American Express and there are still many businesses in the UK that either don't support contactless American Express or support it only for cards and not Apple Pay. Hotel Chocolat I can tell you claims their reason is that Amex charges extra for contactless.

emmanuel_t

Even if Apple Pay acts funky for me, I just shrug it off with the cashier by saying "technology, eh?". Most don't care, and a decline is bound to happen sooner or later.

I'm curious, how can Amex contactless be accepted and not Amex Apple Pay? UK-issued cards support EMV in Apple Pay so aside from CDCVM there shouldn't be a difference between the two.

tmiw

For a couple of reasons. First off, I don't feel like I should need to explain to a business how to use their own terminals. At least the Apple Pay logo on the door or in an ad means that they likely have some sort of clue on how to run it. (On that note, I think I used contactless more often when I was using my AmEx as my primary card, simply because stores generally saw the card in my hand and would at least turn on the terminal thinking I was going to swipe or insert.)

Second, there's a line behind me a lot of the time, and if it doesn't go off just perfectly it can be longer than even using EMV. I don't think it's fair to inconvenience the people behind me for a payment method that's frankly not all that common yet.

Majuki

It's just like why some people on a site like this don't contest DCC even when they understand they're not receiving a favorable exchange rate. They don't want to be that person making a scene/causing a delay if there is a long line of customers.

My initial reluctance to use contactless was after reading posts of cashiers being downright hostile toward contactless payments, such as canceling transactions. Furthermore, at least in my case, my phone was temperamental due to a thick case causing only some readers to be able to detect the NFC field. At best, it's benign where I can shrug it off as technology as I get out my card. At worst, businesses can take a more adversarial approach to to contactless payments if there are too many declined/unsuccessful transactions. "Paying with your phone never works, so we've 'disabled' it!" or "The store manager doesn't allow anyone to use 'Apple Pay'."

emmanuel_t

My local CVS plastered the store with CVS Pay stickers but ... wait for it ... it didn't work. The cashier selected the payment method and the barcode scanner turned off. I swear, this company can't do anything right. And it's not a cashier thing - she told me she charged someone using CVS Pay a few days ago just fine.

AllieKat

I hope it fails miserably. I want to see CVS hurt. They were by far the most openly hostile toward Apple specifically.

tmiw

We're talking about a segment of retailers who:

1. Mostly only installed EMV capable equipment after being cajoled by Visa and MC (despite some having a significant presence outside the US),
2. Want the PCI security standards to go away altogether in favor of something government mandated (which they'll then lobby to weaken),
3. Patched said EMV capable equipment into extremely old POS systems that really should have been replaced,
4. Would rather keep tracking their customers, and
5. Refuse to take any responsibility when their bad decisions come back to bite their customers.

Unfortunately that's a significant number of them who have done the math and concluded that even a few thousand people using the proprietary app is better for their business than a single person using ____ Pay in-store. At least in-app/on-website use of AP still allows for the kind of tracking Target and others have been known to do.

tmiw

On another note, Arco broke Apple Pay at the pump. Tried using it tonight and I got the checkmark on my phone, but the pump didn't respond at all. Inserting/removing my debit card, however, did cause the pump to respond. I don't know if this is just the pump I used or if the problem is at more than one location.

The EMV slots were still taped up inside, too, despite the screen saying "insert card or swipe card".

wco81

It might be specific to that station.

I had success using at one Chevron, no luck in another one. The one where it failed got the checkmark but wouldn't proceed. Tried a couple of times and it even once prompted for zip code input.

The NFC scanner appeared to be the same from my memory.

RedLight2015

Arco's work off and on I have noticed. After the pump spilled out on 3 different cars, I refuse to go there now. Their pumps are mal-maintained, I don't trust them for payments either.

tmiw

Weird, I've never seen that happen at the ones around here. Maybe it depends on the station's owner?

Arco's IT could be better though. The inside terminals say "insert card or swipe card" despite the EMV slot being taped up. At least they didn't do what Safeway did and had that message appear even on terminals without slots.