Chase closed my CSR. Why?

Old Sep 13, 2020, 10:22 am
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Originally Posted by kb1992
I might simply transfer 1 million UR points to my wife's CSR account.

Is transferring to my son's CSR account permitted?
There have been instances where one shutdown leads to another when transferring to a family member.

Better talk to a decision maker first, and then if has a last resort transfer to Hyatt or cash out.
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Old Sep 13, 2020, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by kb1992
I might simply transfer 1 million UR points to my wife's CSR account.

Is transferring to my son's CSR account permitted?



Will try that route.

By the way, I tried to apply for Freedom Unlimited just to see how "unforgiving" Chase is.

I got a response that they need more time to review -- the applicant has 832 credit score, 250K household income, only one credit card in wallet, never missed a payment for 15-20 years. Zero debt.

How interesting for such a basic card.
You can transfer the points between household. I transfer from my wife to me every month. If your son has the same address, it is probably okay, but wife is safer. So you had a CSR and your wife has a CSR. In that case, I would just transfer the points to your wife's and let them close my CSR. I really don't think it is worth it to pay the annual fee x2 in the same household after getting the original 100,000 UR points bonus. I did the same, bot 200,000k UR, closed one of them.. years ago. Although you might still want to talk to them so you don't have a black mark on your Chase account. I wonder if it would affect other people on your household like your wife's.
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Old Sep 13, 2020, 12:01 pm
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OP, with 1 million URs and 2 million UA miles, I personally would work on reducing my “loyalty” account balances and in the meantime use a simple 2% cash back card for ongoing spend. Can you use the UR for Pay-Me-back to wipe out some past charges? (build up more credit for them to refund). If not, I would probably send the UR to Hyatt and some other loyalty programs (and then work on actually using them).

I am sorry to read about your experience with Chase. I am fortunate in many ways that I did not have a lot of credits due to canceled travel post to my cards, but I am convinced I would have fallen into the same trap. I have minimum auto-pay set up for all my cards as a safety net, but I always pay the full balance manually before auto-pay kicks in. So in the OP’s scenario I would likely have seen an negative account balance due to credits and done nothing manually. And then auto-pay would have also done nothing and my account would have been closed. Scary... and I definitely would consider filing a CFPB complaint if a Chase manager wouldn’t see how their implementation of credits and auto-pays is illogical and unfair.
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Old Sep 13, 2020, 4:16 pm
  #49  
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Originally Posted by mia
If the facts are exactly as presented, account closed because Chase's automatic payment system failed to take a payment, Chase is looking at a material liability that needs to be disclosed to regulators and shareholders. This type of error would affect many customers.
Do you honestly believe banks are compliant with the law in the maximum possibility? IMHO - Banks will break the law whenever possible, as soon as its benefits overcomes its costs. Case in point - Chase just settled a class action related to ECOA, specifically related to "previous unsatisfactory relationship". Not including Chase's side of cost, the cost of Chase's settlement is less than $250,000.

Originally Posted by kb1992
I might simply transfer 1 million UR points to my wife's CSR account.

Is transferring to my son's CSR account permitted?
I believe so. It is still household member AFAIK.
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Old Sep 13, 2020, 4:42 pm
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Originally Posted by mia
If the facts are exactly as presented, account closed because Chase's automatic payment system failed to take a payment, Chase is looking at a material liability that needs to be disclosed to regulators and shareholders. This type of error would affect many customers.
Chase's Market Cap is $302.2 Billion. Take a look at the material disclosures made by Chase in each of its most recent 4-5 10-Q / 10-K's and you will see that this issue does not come within several orders of magnitude of material.
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Old Sep 13, 2020, 6:46 pm
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I'd be incensed if I were OP. I had a huge credit balance on my AMEX Plat for months due to all my flight/FHR cancellations until I finally got around to requesting a credit, so of course I didn't make any payments. I'm glad I didn't have that situation with Chase. Chase's whole system here seems awful, as I just don't think any reasonable person would believe a monthly payment would be necessary with a credit balance.

Originally Posted by kb1992
By the way, I tried to apply for Freedom Unlimited just to see how "unforgiving" Chase is.

I got a response that they need more time to review -- the applicant has 832 credit score, 250K household income, only one credit card in wallet, never missed a payment for 15-20 years. Zero debt.

How interesting for such a basic card.
To be fair, Chase has not given me instant approval on any application I've made for many years now, despite high spend levels and Chase always extending me a lot of credit, so I wouldn't take it personally. IIRC when I was applying for the CFU (which I didn't get instant approval for) the agencies were all reporting 800+ for me too.
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Last edited by gengar; Sep 13, 2020 at 11:11 pm
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 1:44 pm
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Originally Posted by kb1992
By the way, I tried to apply for Freedom Unlimited just to see how "unforgiving" Chase is.

I got a response that they need more time to review -- the applicant has 832 credit score, 250K household income, only one credit card in wallet, never missed a payment for 15-20 years. Zero debt.

How interesting for such a basic card.
FWIW, I got that initial response when I called in after first applying for the CSR last year and had gone 2 weeks without a response. I told the agent that if that was the case, please cancel my application as I wanted to buy some airplane tickets for an upcoming trip and the card was useless to me if I couldn't do that. S/he asked me to hold a moment then returned to the line about 2-3 mins later saying my application had been approved and I could expect the card to be delivered within a week.
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 9:41 pm
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Originally Posted by synzero
AmEx tends to be much better with customer service (except for Amex Travel). It's a decent alternative especially if you like business or first class flights. On hotels the redemption values aren't great though; Chase is by far the best for hotels due to the CSR 1.5x and their Hyatt partnership. There aren't really any other cards that compare to either of these however. Citi used to be competitive but they removed all travel insurance so while I might use them for welcome bonuses I would avoid them for much else. Capital One is to me pretty uninteresting; less good transfer partners, less good earning rates, less insurance. If you're into cash back there are a bunch of options but if you want outsized value I think it's Chase and Amex.
I'll think about cash back. I have too many points/miles. It's hard to use them during this COVID-19 and who knows when it will end.

Originally Posted by LAX
I am not sure how much time one has to drain UR points after the account has been closed. I have always read T&Cs (not necessarily Chase's) that points/rewards require an account in good standing. I supposed banks might be required to give someone a grace period, especially if closure is not the individual's fault and without warning. I assumed you have already lost the points and was surprised how "calm" you are. I am glad you still have access to those points, but you probably shouldn't wait to move/redeem them unless there is a published policy that tells you how long you have after an account has been closed.

LAX
Well, even if I lost 1 million UR points, I am not going to commit suicide. I'll try to get them back. But there are lot more important things in life than 1 million UR points.

Thank you for kind words.

Originally Posted by jags86
I would throw all 1,000,000 points into Hyatt, move on the AMEX, and go on with your life. The only thing Chase has on AMEX from a transferable point perspective is Hyatt. 1,000,000 points should last you quite a decent while so you wont miss Chase. Of course, you could also just take the $10,000.
I am trying to get some life time status with Marriott, and it's cheap to earn nights in Asia where I mainly travel to. Hyatt sounds great but I am really hooked by Marriott. Titanium status is fantastic. I often spend as low as $5K to obtain Titanium.
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Old Sep 14, 2020, 9:51 pm
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Originally Posted by pallhedge
You have 30 days to use or lose your points unless you get reinstated. You will likely NOT be approved for any more Chase cards for years to come, so that route is futile. If I were you, I would contact Chase's executive office. They're the only ones that can get your reinstated at this point.
Will contact Chase Executive Office once I return to the States.

Originally Posted by Happy
Probably a life time! From whatever DPs reported on the net in various shut down threads, Chase and BofA seem to NEVER FORGET. Citi on the other hand would refresh in about 2.5 to 3 years but Chase and BofA keep their grudge indefinitely, even it is their own faults. Though the system block indeed could be overturned by higher up order in the case of Chase. No recollection about reading BofA success.

During the massive erroneous shut down a few years ago, the Exec Office was the route that many card holders got their positive responses / formal letter of apology when they wrote, detailed the case and asked an explanation on why their accounts were suddenly be shut down. (Some of those people had Chase banking products where the balances often are quite large - a place to put their college tuitions / living costs for the full semester or the year, fwiw).

I would take the route to write because if the situation is as stated, this is a serious programing error by Chase with the customers being adversely affected thru no fault of their own. If not corrected, the customer will have a blackmark in his profile at Chase FOREVER! Personally I would take whatever action needed to get this thing rectified instead of must "move on" as the "easy way out". The consequence of not resolving this could come back to haunt the OP in the future. No question in my mind this would eventually happen, just dont know when it might. By then it would be way way way too late to get anything done due to everything would have been archived and impossible to trace any factual history.
Absolutely. I might have done with Chase about their credit cards--- there are lot of credit cards on the market. But I want to clear my name. This auto payment system with minimum payment is absurd.

Originally Posted by Happy
I understand MANY like AutoPay but most do not realize when AutoPay went wrong, it could go VERY WRONG. We have Zero AutoPay set up for any of our accounts - from credit cards to utilities - after suffered from a bad consequence Decades ago, (long before blogs and such), I swore never use AutoPay again.

What people should do is to set up ALERT in all your card accounts, to get an ALERT reminder on the date that there are X days before the payment is due. I set ours to 10 days - though by the time I got the Alerts I usually have already set up payments on the cards sites - my habit is to set up payments as soon as statements are closed, but the payments usually are a week before due date, so a future payment scheduled.

AutoPay can create a FALSE sense of Safety and that when it fails, the fall out is always UGLY.

I may take this opp to suggest that Microsoft MONEY is an excellent software that resides in your computer. The software is so good that even Microsoft has sunset it in 2010, the user forum in Microsoft User Community is still very active as of today - that is a solid proof on how much the existing users feel the software is superior even though Microsoft stopped its support a decade ago!

You can use it to keep track of every financial aspect of your household. The only draw back is because this is a discontinued product, you can no longer download financial institutions information to the software once Microsoft released the Sunset version (free for all versus a paid software with annual update), the download ability was disabled. Therefore the entries are manual. How good the data base is, of course depending on how diligent the user is keeping it updated, manually. It also has ability to generate all sorts of reports, that is a very neat feature if I need to look back a particular spend category 2 years ago, for example, I can find that thru the right report.

Over the years I had to go ask questions at the above forum and each time I was able to get the solutions. It is a very friendly, well maintained user forum. People help each other out on whatever issues a user has encountered.

For those who want to find out more -

https://social.microsoft.com/Forums/...me?forum=money

And a May 2019 write up on how to get it work on Window 10.

https://windowsreport.com/microsoft-money-windows-10-2/
Thanks for the suggestion. Will take a look.

Originally Posted by Adelphos
Usually with Chase, if they take an adverse action, you get a letter within a week, with a number to call. Call that number, and you usually get to some kind of credit analyst that can look over the entire history of the account and the Chase relationship. They may have to pull a credit report, but I am guessing if you actually talk to someone in that department and explain what happened, your account could be restated
Will talk to them once I get back to USA

Originally Posted by mhdena
There have been instances where one shutdown leads to another when transferring to a family member.

Better talk to a decision maker first, and then if has a last resort transfer to Hyatt or cash out.
Really? That's awful.

Originally Posted by notquiteaff
OP, with 1 million URs and 2 million UA miles, I personally would work on reducing my loyalty account balances and in the meantime use a simple 2% cash back card for ongoing spend. Can you use the UR for Pay-Me-back to wipe out some past charges? (build up more credit for them to refund). If not, I would probably send the UR to Hyatt and some other loyalty programs (and then work on actually using them).

I am sorry to read about your experience with Chase. I am fortunate in many ways that I did not have a lot of credits due to canceled travel post to my cards, but I am convinced I would have fallen into the same trap. I have minimum auto-pay set up for all my cards as a safety net, but I always pay the full balance manually before auto-pay kicks in. So in the OPs scenario I would likely have seen an negative account balance due to credits and done nothing manually. And then auto-pay would have also done nothing and my account would have been closed. Scary... and I definitely would consider filing a CFPB complaint if a Chase manager wouldnt see how their implementation of credits and auto-pays is illogical and unfair.
Thanks so much for the comments.

Yes, I have too many points/miles. The reason: I always buy revenue tickets to earn status, and hardly I redeem points/miles.

Right now the whole world is shut down. Who knows when we can travel again.

Cash back card is something I am seriously considering.

Originally Posted by gengar
I'd be incensed if I were OP. I had a huge credit balance on my AMEX Plat for months due to all my flight/FHR cancellations until I finally got around to requesting a credit, so of course I didn't make any payments. I'm glad I didn't have that situation with Chase. Chase's whole system here seems awful, as I just don't think any reasonable person would believe a monthly payment would be necessary with a credit balance.
.
This is exactly what happened. Chase AutoPay system didn't take a payment due to credit balance. Then Chase blames me for that.

Originally Posted by ExplorerWannabe
FWIW, I got that initial response when I called in after first applying for the CSR last year and had gone 2 weeks without a response. I told the agent that if that was the case, please cancel my application as I wanted to buy some airplane tickets for an upcoming trip and the card was useless to me if I couldn't do that. S/he asked me to hold a moment then returned to the line about 2-3 mins later saying my application had been approved and I could expect the card to be delivered within a week.
Good for you. Chase might have banned me for life lol.
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 2:04 am
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Originally Posted by trikotret
I would call them and see what's up. Doesn't make sense to send a payment for a credit balance. Maybe they didn't like your ticket cancellations. If they won't reopen card, just move on. I'm are Amex would love your 100k spending.
There is WAY more to this situation that what is being shared.
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 8:12 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Happy
I understand MANY like AutoPay but most do not realize when AutoPay went wrong, it could go VERY WRONG. We have Zero AutoPay set up for any of our accounts - from credit cards to utilities - after suffered from a bad consequence Decades ago, (long before blogs and such), I swore never use AutoPay again.

What people should do is to set up ALERT in all your card accounts, to get an ALERT reminder on the date that there are X days before the payment is due. I set ours to 10 days - though by the time I got the Alerts I usually have already set up payments on the cards sites - my habit is to set up payments as soon as statements are closed, but the payments usually are a week before due date, so a future payment scheduled.

AutoPay can create a FALSE sense of Safety and that when it fails, the fall out is always UGLY.
I pay every card manually (utilities get auto-paid). But I still have auto-pay set up to pay the minimum amount on the day the payment is due, as a safety net. One of the downsides of optimizing credit card use and reads is that I have a dozen cards. Not all will have a charge every month, but on average six or seven will have a balance due every month. I review the charges on a regular basis and manually schedule payments when the statement closes (I have a spreadsheet to track this). The safety net of auto-pay is for the case where I am unable to manually pay, e.g., if I get hit by a bus and end up in a coma for a month. I dont want my wife to have to deal with my credit card scheme, especially not in that circumstance, so its auto-pilot time to keep the plane in the air while I am recovering. At a cost, of course, because minimum payment means interest, but I accept that risk.

The scenario the OP encountered seems fairly unusual (I rarely return something and very rarely have a credit balance). And it seems like a Chase bug they should be willing to fix.
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 8:51 am
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Even if you have only one card and fairly routine use of that one card, having auto-pay for the minimum is common sense. It costs nothing is a one-time effort and if you louse up even once, it will have been worth it.
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 9:42 am
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeFlyer
There is WAY more to this situation that what is being shared.
Agreed, 100% (and there almost always is in these type of threads)

The OP continues to resist simply picking up the phone and calling Chase, with "I will when I get back to the states" In today's world of WiFi calling, Skype, etc. there is absolutely no reason one would have to wait until they "return to the states," particularly when a 30 day clock is ticking on 1 million UR points and time is of the essence...

Definitely more to the story here...

Regards
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeFlyer
There is WAY more to this situation that what is being shared.
Exactly!

What the original poster did not say was whether the monthly statement immediately preceding the credits to his/her account closed with a (positive) balance. If the last monthly statement before the credits had a (positive) balance, then at least the minimum payment was required to be made even if subsequent credits made the online account show a negative balance. The monthly statement is the legally binding document that we all agree to follow when we accept a credit card; not the balances shown in the online account.

With that said, Chase AutoPay will not deduct a payment if the online account shows a (negative) balance. In that case you will have to manually make the payment; which might even require pushing the payment from your bank.
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Old Sep 15, 2020, 10:52 am
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeFlyer
There is WAY more to this situation that what is being shared.
Originally Posted by scubadu
Agreed, 100% (and there almost always is in these type of threads)

The OP continues to resist simply picking up the phone and calling Chase, with "I will when I get back to the states" In today's world of WiFi calling, Skype, etc. there is absolutely no reason one would have to wait until they "return to the states," particularly when a 30 day clock is ticking on 1 million UR points and time is of the essence...

Definitely more to the story here...

Regards
Originally Posted by BelleCityFlyer
Exactly!

What the original poster did not say was whether the monthly statement immediately preceding the credits to his/her account closed with a (positive) balance. If the last monthly statement before the credits had a (positive) balance, then at least the minimum payment was required to be made even if subsequent credits made the online account show a negative balance. The monthly statement is the legally binding document that we all agree to follow when we accept a credit card; not the balances shown in the online account.

With that said, Chase AutoPay will not deduct a payment if the online account shows a (negative) balance. In that case you will have to manually make the payment; which might even require pushing the payment from your bank.
Skeptical bunch, aren't you.

After reading this thread, I found myself paying the minimum balance of last month's statement even though my statement balance was wiped out by PYB credits.
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