Jan 10, 2017, 9:46 am
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
This thread is now archived. The 2020 version is here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase-ultimate-rewards/1997467-sapphire-reserve-higher-annual-fee-550-lyft-doordash-benefits.html
It was a continuation of THIS discussion.
Use this thread to discuss the Sapphire Reserve card offer. There are separate threads to discuss:
$300 Travel Credit
Priority Pass
Concierge Service
Travel Insurance
Global Entry/TSA PreCheck reimbursement.
This card is subject to Chase's 5/24 policy. For information on (and discussion of) the policy, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward. You can override 5/24 by having an in-branch pre-approval (only! online prequalification does NOT override 5/24), or by already being Chase Private Client (as in you see the "Chase Private Client" text on the login screen of the Chase mobile app.)
As of August 2018, all Chase Sapphire cards are (with limited exceptions) subject to an additional restriction:
See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 for details and ongoing discussion.
Landing page with bonus offer (50,000 UR after spending $4,000 in 90 days):
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...04&IS2F=Y71UH0
Application page: https://applynow.chase.com/FlexAppWe...304&PROMO=DF01
100,000 UR points is worth $1,000 as statement credit, $1,500 when used for travel through the Chase portal, or potentially more if transferred to a partner.
Card features are here: https://www.chase.com/card-benefits/...reserve/travel. The card's Priority Pass includes unlimited guests. (verified in Post #2635 ; also verified by Chase)
Chase Sapphire Reserve Ultimate Rewards Program Agreement
https://chaseonline.chase.com/resources/RPA0511_Web.pdf
Chase Sapphire Reserve Guide to Benefits
https://www.chasebenefits.com/sapphirereserve
The card is made of the same material as the CSP, and is being shipped UPS Next Day Air.
How to determine your account number, expiration date, and shipping date before receiving the card
(** Note that this no longer seems to work checking on 5/18 - the account number in the secure message header is XXXXXX'd out except for last 4 digits)
(** Also I do not see any recent comments 5/18 on timely shipping or shipping method)
1. Send a secure message (SM) from the account. A common SM would be to ask about the sign-up bonus and last day to complete the spend requirement (which appears to be approximately 3.5 months from the date of approval).
2. Check the Sent Messages folder, and the full account number will be listed in the header of the message that you just sent. The number starts with 414720.
3. The expiration date is five years from the month of approval. So, if you were approved on August 31, 2016, your expiration date will be August 2021.
4. CVV2 number is not available, so if a merchant requires it for payment, you must wait for the physical card.
5. According to many reports, the card is not activated until it is shipped, which happens to be via UPS Next Day Air Saver (if shipped on Friday, you will not receive the card until Monday or the next business day). To find out when it is shipped, go to My UPS and sign up for a free account. You'll be notified when a shipment is destined for your address.
6. Contrary to what the customer service rep may tell you about the delivery of the card—such as the card will take 1-2 weeks or that expedited shipping is not available—the card is actually expedited and shipped via express shipping, as mentioned in #5. There is no need to ask for expedited shipping.
Priority Pass Select
Click HERE to read the separate thread discussing this benefit.
As soon as the account shows up online:
1. Click on Go To Ultimate Rewards.
2. Scroll down to the very bottom left and click on "Card Benefits"
3. Activate Membership to request card.
4. Card will take 1-2 weeks and can't be expedited, but members have reported success in charging the lounge access to the card and requesting a refund from Customer Service.
5. PP cards will be issued for the account holder and any AU(s)
6. According to Chase, CSR's PP membership includes guest access.
Duplicate Card
1. If you receive the plastic card, wait for the metal card to arrive automatically.
2. If you receive the metal card, send SM or call to request plastic card (for use with overseas merchants that require a card imprint, because you hate metal cards, whatever).
3. DO NOT request a replacement card (especially under any pretense that the card was lost or misplaced).
4. Both cards will have the same number, expiration and CVV. Both cards will work.
5. It appears that all CSR cards are sent overnight once produced, including the plastic 'replacement' cards. No need to request expedited shipping.
How to get bonus points on the first statement
Act very quickly; you may have less than a week. It depends on the timing of your first statement and when you receive the card. 4K in spending has to clear (not pending) about a week before the statement cuts in order to get the bonus points on that statement. Under "account details" you can see your first payment due date. Your closing date is usually three calendar days after your due date. For instance, if your very first bill is due October 20 that statement would close on September 23, and spending would have to clear by approximately September 16 in order to get the bonus points.
It was a continuation of THIS discussion.
Use this thread to discuss the Sapphire Reserve card offer. There are separate threads to discuss:
$300 Travel Credit
Priority Pass
Concierge Service
Travel Insurance
Global Entry/TSA PreCheck reimbursement.
This card is subject to Chase's 5/24 policy. For information on (and discussion of) the policy, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward. You can override 5/24 by having an in-branch pre-approval (only! online prequalification does NOT override 5/24), or by already being Chase Private Client (as in you see the "Chase Private Client" text on the login screen of the Chase mobile app.)
As of August 2018, all Chase Sapphire cards are (with limited exceptions) subject to an additional restriction:
The product is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of any Sapphire credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of any Sapphire credit card who received a new cardmember bonus within the last 48 months.
Landing page with bonus offer (50,000 UR after spending $4,000 in 90 days):
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...04&IS2F=Y71UH0
Application page: https://applynow.chase.com/FlexAppWe...304&PROMO=DF01
100,000 UR points is worth $1,000 as statement credit, $1,500 when used for travel through the Chase portal, or potentially more if transferred to a partner.
Card features are here: https://www.chase.com/card-benefits/...reserve/travel. The card's Priority Pass includes unlimited guests. (verified in Post #2635 ; also verified by Chase)
Chase Sapphire Reserve Ultimate Rewards Program Agreement
https://chaseonline.chase.com/resources/RPA0511_Web.pdf
Chase Sapphire Reserve Guide to Benefits
https://www.chasebenefits.com/sapphirereserve
The card is made of the same material as the CSP, and is being shipped UPS Next Day Air.
How to determine your account number, expiration date, and shipping date before receiving the card
(** Note that this no longer seems to work checking on 5/18 - the account number in the secure message header is XXXXXX'd out except for last 4 digits)
(** Also I do not see any recent comments 5/18 on timely shipping or shipping method)
1. Send a secure message (SM) from the account. A common SM would be to ask about the sign-up bonus and last day to complete the spend requirement (which appears to be approximately 3.5 months from the date of approval).
2. Check the Sent Messages folder, and the full account number will be listed in the header of the message that you just sent. The number starts with 414720.
3. The expiration date is five years from the month of approval. So, if you were approved on August 31, 2016, your expiration date will be August 2021.
4. CVV2 number is not available, so if a merchant requires it for payment, you must wait for the physical card.
5. According to many reports, the card is not activated until it is shipped, which happens to be via UPS Next Day Air Saver (if shipped on Friday, you will not receive the card until Monday or the next business day). To find out when it is shipped, go to My UPS and sign up for a free account. You'll be notified when a shipment is destined for your address.
6. Contrary to what the customer service rep may tell you about the delivery of the card—such as the card will take 1-2 weeks or that expedited shipping is not available—the card is actually expedited and shipped via express shipping, as mentioned in #5. There is no need to ask for expedited shipping.
Priority Pass Select
Click HERE to read the separate thread discussing this benefit.
As soon as the account shows up online:
1. Click on Go To Ultimate Rewards.
2. Scroll down to the very bottom left and click on "Card Benefits"
3. Activate Membership to request card.
4. Card will take 1-2 weeks and can't be expedited, but members have reported success in charging the lounge access to the card and requesting a refund from Customer Service.
5. PP cards will be issued for the account holder and any AU(s)
6. According to Chase, CSR's PP membership includes guest access.
Duplicate Card
1. If you receive the plastic card, wait for the metal card to arrive automatically.
2. If you receive the metal card, send SM or call to request plastic card (for use with overseas merchants that require a card imprint, because you hate metal cards, whatever).
3. DO NOT request a replacement card (especially under any pretense that the card was lost or misplaced).
4. Both cards will have the same number, expiration and CVV. Both cards will work.
5. It appears that all CSR cards are sent overnight once produced, including the plastic 'replacement' cards. No need to request expedited shipping.
How to get bonus points on the first statement
Act very quickly; you may have less than a week. It depends on the timing of your first statement and when you receive the card. 4K in spending has to clear (not pending) about a week before the statement cuts in order to get the bonus points on that statement. Under "account details" you can see your first payment due date. Your closing date is usually three calendar days after your due date. For instance, if your very first bill is due October 20 that statement would close on September 23, and spending would have to clear by approximately September 16 in order to get the bonus points.
Chase Sapphire Reserve (CSR) 2017-2019, archived
Jul 12, 2017, 12:30 pm
#631
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,399
Even for people like us who travel a lot, out of our own dimes, CSR is still NOT worth the $150 Net AF - because the difference is only 1% above CSP which offers 1st year free if applied anew.
The 1 to 1.5 travel redemption heavily advertised by Chase is only good in theory. When put it to use, there are so many perils to worry about as evidenced in the DPs reported in the STICKY, makes the pts under CSR really should be valued the same as 1 penny / pt worth, or the value transferred to the partners, but NOT at the theoretical value of 1.5 pennies.
We almost always travel in premium cabins on international long hauls so the PP benefit for international travel is very minimal other than very occasionally dingy lounges in dingy airports (like the one we used at GDN in May - we actually would be more comfortable staying at the lobby of the Hampton Inn across street to the airport than at the dingy PP lounge inside airport).
Therefore the PP benefits to us are for domestic flights which we often fly coach.
Unfortunately domestically almost all PP accessible lounges (AS, AF/KLM) have not strictly enforced the capacity control clause that gives them right to deny PP entry - all thanks to Chase has not worked out the number of guests details - Now it means the AS lounges only admit the holder of the PP card and NO guest if it would give admission at all... This means if a couple traveling if only one spouse has the PP card, the other spouse would not be admitted unless paying for it, not to mention if a family is traveling together....
SLC only has one DL lounge...
Then for the Toronto - US the only PP transborder lounge is at T1 used by AC and UA. So if you are flying AA, you are SOL as AA uses T3.
The list can go on and on....
In this sense the PP benefit is greatly diluted for anyone who has lots of domestic travels.
Not to mention the experiences using various insurance protection with a Chase card seems to be vastly inferior than using an AMEX card...
Come Sept I suspect the attrition rate of this card would be rather high. That Dimon and his team would need more than the estimated 7 years to break even as he mentioned such on Q4 investor conference as an excuse to "mitigate" the $300 million loss incurred to introduce this card as a mean to break into the High End card market... The CSR experiences so far is anything but "High End".
It would be interesting to hear how Dimon spin the wheel in Q4 2017 investor conference.
The 1 to 1.5 travel redemption heavily advertised by Chase is only good in theory. When put it to use, there are so many perils to worry about as evidenced in the DPs reported in the STICKY, makes the pts under CSR really should be valued the same as 1 penny / pt worth, or the value transferred to the partners, but NOT at the theoretical value of 1.5 pennies.
We almost always travel in premium cabins on international long hauls so the PP benefit for international travel is very minimal other than very occasionally dingy lounges in dingy airports (like the one we used at GDN in May - we actually would be more comfortable staying at the lobby of the Hampton Inn across street to the airport than at the dingy PP lounge inside airport).
Therefore the PP benefits to us are for domestic flights which we often fly coach.
Unfortunately domestically almost all PP accessible lounges (AS, AF/KLM) have not strictly enforced the capacity control clause that gives them right to deny PP entry - all thanks to Chase has not worked out the number of guests details - Now it means the AS lounges only admit the holder of the PP card and NO guest if it would give admission at all... This means if a couple traveling if only one spouse has the PP card, the other spouse would not be admitted unless paying for it, not to mention if a family is traveling together....
SLC only has one DL lounge...
Then for the Toronto - US the only PP transborder lounge is at T1 used by AC and UA. So if you are flying AA, you are SOL as AA uses T3.
The list can go on and on....
In this sense the PP benefit is greatly diluted for anyone who has lots of domestic travels.
Not to mention the experiences using various insurance protection with a Chase card seems to be vastly inferior than using an AMEX card...
Come Sept I suspect the attrition rate of this card would be rather high. That Dimon and his team would need more than the estimated 7 years to break even as he mentioned such on Q4 investor conference as an excuse to "mitigate" the $300 million loss incurred to introduce this card as a mean to break into the High End card market... The CSR experiences so far is anything but "High End".
It would be interesting to hear how Dimon spin the wheel in Q4 2017 investor conference.
I don't have a regular am ex Platinum card so a couple of the benefits like the free GE (but that is only every five years) and the added rental car coverage is nice but probably not worth the $150 net fee if it wasn't for the 4.5 percent back on parking.
For people that use the PP lounges like the boardrooms and the MSP escape lounge and the Lima lounge and are getting denied now the value of that $150 card goes down significantly.
One big advantage to the CSR over Am Ex is it is accepted at a lot more places than Am Ex. The parking bill I referenced above can't be paid with Am Ex because the company only accepts Visa and MC. I also make a lot of purchases at Costco and they no longer accept Am Ex and my 2% citi mastercard can't be used there either
Jul 12, 2017, 2:37 pm
#632
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
I'm in a unique situation where we have a $10K plus a month parking bill and the vendor accepts Visa and I can expense it and get reimbursed but otherwise I would consider dropping it. AFAIK the CSR card is the only one that gives bonus points for parking so that is an additional $250+ a month in benefits over using my citi 2% back card.
I don't have a regular am ex Platinum card so a couple of the benefits like the free GE (but that is only every five years) and the added rental car coverage is nice but probably not worth the $150 net fee if it wasn't for the 4.5 percent back on parking.
For people that use the PP lounges like the boardrooms and the MSP escape lounge and the Lima lounge and are getting denied now the value of that $150 card goes down significantly.
One big advantage to the CSR over Am Ex is it is accepted at a lot more places than Am Ex. The parking bill I referenced above can't be paid with Am Ex because the company only accepts Visa and MC. I also make a lot of purchases at Costco and they no longer accept Am Ex and my 2% citi mastercard can't be used there either
I don't have a regular am ex Platinum card so a couple of the benefits like the free GE (but that is only every five years) and the added rental car coverage is nice but probably not worth the $150 net fee if it wasn't for the 4.5 percent back on parking.
For people that use the PP lounges like the boardrooms and the MSP escape lounge and the Lima lounge and are getting denied now the value of that $150 card goes down significantly.
One big advantage to the CSR over Am Ex is it is accepted at a lot more places than Am Ex. The parking bill I referenced above can't be paid with Am Ex because the company only accepts Visa and MC. I also make a lot of purchases at Costco and they no longer accept Am Ex and my 2% citi mastercard can't be used there either
Very very very few cardholders have large "Travel" expenses to justify the AF when other important benefits either are difficult to use or not usable at all.
GE benefit is hardly worth mentioning due to it is once every 5 years, and most people here probably already have it before CSR is introduced. Though you can surely pay for others' applications should that need arise. For us our GEs not eligible for renew until late 2018 the earliest so we would get another card has such benefit by then instead of keeping CSR for such.
For the lounge access side,
One strategy an FT friend employed is to rotate the Ameriprise AMEX Plat card between spouses - the card first year AF is waived, up to 3 AUs free. He just paid for the 5th person should the whole gang (parents + 3 children) travels together. But that has become much rarer now due to the eldest has gone to college last year.
They jump on cheap coach fares to Europe at least 4 to 5 times a year on top of other trips to other parts of the world - as long as there are cheap coach fares AND the locales are not outrageously expensive (Northern Europe and Australia/NZ come to mind). It is just Mid July now, the family has already been in Europe 3 times, plus 1 trip to Chile, and 1 trip to Asia at the beginning of the year, plus some domestic hops he himself has to do. The second half of 2017 afaik there is a trip to South Africa booked with a SAA dirt cheap $450 fare direct flight to JNB... in coach of course.
So the lounge access by PP IS important to them as they otherwise would not have access by class of service. It really helps to ease the hassles/sufferings associated with coach travel on long haul flights.
But even that he is NOT willing to pay for the CSR's net fee. The Ameriprise Plat enjoys all the same benefits as other AMEX plats by the most part (except the MB version and the Morgan Stanley version). So he actually comes out ahead as he would get $200 travel credit WIHOUT paying any AF (nothing to offset to begin with unlike CSR).
What really surprises me is, our Chase banker, from the business banker to both the previous and current CPC banker, both dont own the CSR and all their "knowledge" is from the brochures they have in possession. Our CPC banker actually asked us to let him see the card late last year when we decided to terminate the CPC relationship. (Guy fully understood why we did not want to keep our money/investment at Chase and no qualm about it.) The current CPC banker at this branch has been trying to get us back despite we already explain to him not going to happen. He also wanted to see the card...
So apparently neither of these Chase bankers considers paying the net $150 for the card is NOT worthwhile!
Like I said, it would be interesting to see how the attrition rate is after September. Even more interesting would be on how Dimon explains such to the shareholders on Q4 conference call.
Jul 12, 2017, 10:02 pm
#633
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
I have thought about canceling my CSR. But I also tried pricing some of the travel benefits. For instance, you can get comparable trip cancellation/interruption, medical evacuation and primary car rental CDW coverage from a travel insurance policy but it would be at least $200-300 per year.
Jul 12, 2017, 10:09 pm
#634
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 31
Even for people like us who travel a lot, out of our own dimes, CSR is still NOT worth the $150 Net AF - because the difference is only 1% above CSP which offers 1st year free if applied anew.
The 1 to 1.5 travel redemption heavily advertised by Chase is only good in theory. When put it to use, there are so many perils to worry about as evidenced in the DPs reported in the STICKY, makes the pts under CSR really should be valued the same as 1 penny / pt worth, or the value transferred to the partners, but NOT at the theoretical value of 1.5 pennies.
The 1 to 1.5 travel redemption heavily advertised by Chase is only good in theory. When put it to use, there are so many perils to worry about as evidenced in the DPs reported in the STICKY, makes the pts under CSR really should be valued the same as 1 penny / pt worth, or the value transferred to the partners, but NOT at the theoretical value of 1.5 pennies.
This was based off of the info from this article from FrequentMiler & using my own spending totals in the spreadsheet to calculate the different card combos vs a 2% cash back card:
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.co...phire-reserve/
Thx for any input
Jul 13, 2017, 1:39 pm
#635
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
At what point would the CSR be better than CSP? Reason I ask is because I had been going back and forth on which of the 2 to pair with my Freedom & Freedom Unlimited card. After reviewing my yearly spend categories I ultimately went with the CSR since it paired better with my Freedom cards & yearly category spend.
This was based off of the info from this article from FrequentMiler & using my own spending totals in the spreadsheet to calculate the different card combos vs a 2% cash back card:
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.co...phire-reserve/
Thx for any input
This was based off of the info from this article from FrequentMiler & using my own spending totals in the spreadsheet to calculate the different card combos vs a 2% cash back card:
http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.co...phire-reserve/
Thx for any input
The major issues with CSR are, the touted benefits are difficult to use - namely the 1 to 1.5 value booking travel, and the PP lounge access.
My experiences in trying to use the UR pts booking travel have been VERY DISAPPOINTING. So the UR pt really is worth 1c a pt to me other than transfer to partners.
You have to also look at from the ACTUAL USAGE SIDE instead of the theoretic value when deciding if the AF is worth it.
Jul 13, 2017, 3:09 pm
#636
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Florida
Programs: Delta SkyMiles; Hilton HHonors; NEXUS; National Emerald Club Executive
Posts: 366
Jul 13, 2017, 4:51 pm
#637
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
All the comparisons are just IN THEORY.
The major issues with CSR are, the touted benefits are difficult to use - namely the 1 to 1.5 value booking travel, and the PP lounge access.
My experiences in trying to use the UR pts booking travel have been VERY DISAPPOINTING. So the UR pt really is worth 1c a pt to me other than transfer to partners.
You have to also look at from the ACTUAL USAGE SIDE instead of the theoretic value when deciding if the AF is worth it.
The major issues with CSR are, the touted benefits are difficult to use - namely the 1 to 1.5 value booking travel, and the PP lounge access.
My experiences in trying to use the UR pts booking travel have been VERY DISAPPOINTING. So the UR pt really is worth 1c a pt to me other than transfer to partners.
You have to also look at from the ACTUAL USAGE SIDE instead of the theoretic value when deciding if the AF is worth it.
I've been getting upwards of 3c per point on both TY points and UR points through transfers to partner airlines for travel in F and J classes. Never considered redeeming UR through the portal just because direct transfer to partner airlines is pretty simple and I think I obtain better value by doing so.
So, while I agree with you that actual usage determines the relative value of the points, I'd probably disagree that the "touted benefits are difficult to use."
Jul 13, 2017, 7:18 pm
#638
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
If one travels a lot internationally, then PP is an actual benefit - I've never been refused entry to a lounge outside of the US.
I've been getting upwards of 3c per point on both TY points and UR points through transfers to partner airlines for travel in F and J classes. Never considered redeeming UR through the portal just because direct transfer to partner airlines is pretty simple and I think I obtain better value by doing so.
So, while I agree with you that actual usage determines the relative value of the points, I'd probably disagree that the "touted benefits are difficult to use."
I've been getting upwards of 3c per point on both TY points and UR points through transfers to partner airlines for travel in F and J classes. Never considered redeeming UR through the portal just because direct transfer to partner airlines is pretty simple and I think I obtain better value by doing so.
So, while I agree with you that actual usage determines the relative value of the points, I'd probably disagree that the "touted benefits are difficult to use."
The worst PP lounge we ever used though, was the lounge at Guilin airport, China 18 months ago. Not only there were only coffee / tea available, the coffee cups were dirty. Took the attendant almost 10 min to find disposable cups just for a coffee...
On the other hand PP lets you in Air China F lounge in Beijing on our way down to Guilin. LOL.
Then last May we found out the lounge at Bodrum, Turkey, was a Seasonal place - it only opens for Summer June to Sept.
At Vienna the lounge BA uses (we gained access via flying BA Club Euro) is also is a PP lounge. The "foods" were macaroni without cheese and some slate dinner rolls... I kid you not.
Another draw back is many PP lounges dont have shower facility, or charge for the service, or simply shut down the facility even it is in place.
So for PP lounge quality, it really depends. Almost in all occasions an airline's own lounge has better quality than the independent lounges which in many airports are what the PP uses.
I hope their latest experiments of contracting airport eateries would produce good results so the concept can expand - it might actually be better then going to a mediocre and crowded lounge,
OTOH if your international travels largely are in business class, by class of service you gain lounge access from the airlines, either the airlines lounges or independent lounges - so you do not need PP in those occasions other than the few short hops intra-Europe / Asia, for example. Our travel pattern primarily fits to this. Almost all our travels are international - basically RTWs 3 to 4 times a year with 80% of the segments in business / first cabins. Hence lounge access is primarily by class of service, to better quality airlines own lounges. The few supplementary flights between lesser airports, often dont have any lounge or poor quality lounge. The 1 to 3 domestic trips we make each year, would be the time we need the PP lounges which unfortunately are now quite restrictive to the PP members.
Transferrability is not unique to CSR. All Chase fee-based UR cards have such ability. Therefore that cannot be used as justification for the high AF CSR charges.
For the UR pts we almost exclusively use them as transfer to Hyatt. There are actually enough domestic and international 8K properties that are very good value, even 12K properties, especially if they are airport hotels. Great for forced overnight.
For airline partners it also depends on how much balance in your various FFP accounts. If you already have healthy balances you do not need UR supplement.
Also I dont normally value the F and J flights on their face values. I use the maximum amount we are willing to pay by cash, as the value of the F/J flights. To me that is a much more realistic approach.
On top of that these days the TATC revenue tickets are often very reasonable - you can often get BA business tickets around $2K using the AARP $400 discount and the 10% discount available to BAEC members - when UA redemption is 70K one-way on its own metal and 80K on partner ... Mileage redemption is hardly worth it when the cash ticket is cheap, plus it earns you miles - unless of course if cash is lacking but then it is a different story.
Last edited by Happy; Jul 13, 2017 at 7:28 pm
Jul 13, 2017, 9:11 pm
#639
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
I disagree with the "whatever you're willing to pay by cash" approach for valuation. The ticket costs "X" - that's the value of the ticket. Whether I'd pay that in cash or not is irrelevant. If a Maserati is $500,000 but you wouldn't pay that price for the car, that doesn't mean the car isn't worth that amount. Or a house. Or a quarter pounder with cheese. The price is what the price is.
Regarding lounge quality - meh. PP doesn't guarantee lounge quality - it guarantees access. So your argument that a few lounges aren't "good enough" is incongruous to your argument that the benefits are difficult to access. Simply not true - they are accessible. Whether you feel that it meets your particular standards is another discussion.
Regarding the "high fee" for the CSR - the difference between CSR and CSP is a net $55/year, disregarding any points earning differentials. I'm good with that. YMMV.
Cheers.
Jul 13, 2017, 9:41 pm
#640
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,437
All the comparisons are just IN THEORY.
The major issues with CSR are, the touted benefits are difficult to use - namely the 1 to 1.5 value booking travel, and the PP lounge access.
My experiences in trying to use the UR pts booking travel have been VERY DISAPPOINTING. So the UR pt really is worth 1c a pt to me other than transfer to partners.
The major issues with CSR are, the touted benefits are difficult to use - namely the 1 to 1.5 value booking travel, and the PP lounge access.
My experiences in trying to use the UR pts booking travel have been VERY DISAPPOINTING. So the UR pt really is worth 1c a pt to me other than transfer to partners.
u had booking? I've found the 1.5c value to be EXCEPTIONALLY good. If you don't find what you want via the Chase site just call in and book on the phone. It's very easy. The agents will book whatever you wish in whatever booking class you ask for -- with no phone fee.I book a lot of travel and at 3x points earning and 1.5c spend for travel this card is a 4.5% cash back card for me.
Last edited by Xyzzy; Jul 13, 2017 at 9:47 pm
Jul 13, 2017, 9:57 pm
#641
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,947
I disagree with the "whatever you're willing to pay by cash" approach for valuation. The ticket costs "X" - that's the value of the ticket. Whether I'd pay that in cash or not is irrelevant. If a Maserati is $500,000 but you wouldn't pay that price for the car, that doesn't mean the car isn't worth that amount. Or a house. Or a quarter pounder with cheese. The price is what the price is.
You're also confusing what the market value of the house is, and the value to you of the points or coupon or whatever instrument you're holding. Suppose someone gives you a coupon for a free Coke. The same street corner you're standing on has a grocery store that sells Cokes for $1, a convenience store that sells them for $2, and a gas station that sells them for $3. What do you consider the value of the coupon to be in this case?
In the case of flights, suppose that for the same amount of points you could take 4 flights in Y that you value at $600 each but the airline is charging $800 or 1 flight in J that you value at $2000 but the airline is charging $4000. Do you think the relevant numbers here are 4x$600 = $2400 vs. $2000, or 4x$800 = $3200 vs. $4000?
Jul 14, 2017, 5:29 am
#642
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
The price is what the price is, but it's still a mistake (IMO, anyway -- as you said, everyone can only do whatever they feel is right for them) to confuse the price on the label with what you think the value is, assuming reasonably liquid markets and barring unusual situations like you just came out of 5 days in the desert with no food or water so how much is a bottled water worth to you
You're also confusing what the market value of the house is, and the value to you of the points or coupon or whatever instrument you're holding. Suppose someone gives you a coupon for a free Coke. The same street corner you're standing on has a grocery store that sells Cokes for $1, a convenience store that sells them for $2, and a gas station that sells them for $3. What do you consider the value of the coupon to be in this case?
In the case of flights, suppose that for the same amount of points you could take 4 flights in Y that you value at $600 each but the airline is charging $800 or 1 flight in J that you value at $2000 but the airline is charging $4000. Do you think the relevant numbers here are 4x$600 = $2400 vs. $2000, or 4x$800 = $3200 vs. $4000?
You're also confusing what the market value of the house is, and the value to you of the points or coupon or whatever instrument you're holding. Suppose someone gives you a coupon for a free Coke. The same street corner you're standing on has a grocery store that sells Cokes for $1, a convenience store that sells them for $2, and a gas station that sells them for $3. What do you consider the value of the coupon to be in this case?
In the case of flights, suppose that for the same amount of points you could take 4 flights in Y that you value at $600 each but the airline is charging $800 or 1 flight in J that you value at $2000 but the airline is charging $4000. Do you think the relevant numbers here are 4x$600 = $2400 vs. $2000, or 4x$800 = $3200 vs. $4000?
In the end, people do what they want with their own points and their own money - on that I suspect we can agree.
Last edited by Diplomatico; Jul 14, 2017 at 5:36 am Reason: Too many words
Jul 14, 2017, 10:03 am
#643
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
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I don't really think I"m confusing anything and (apparently unlike others in the FT community) I don't spend my life asking myself how much I "value" X vs the price of X. Given your Coke example, the value of the coupon = "free Coke". I don't have to attach monetary value to that - it's a free Coke.
but if you want to compare different ways to use points and which usage is better for you then you need to think about things in terms of their value.But if you just want to view it as "I have these points and I can spend them on stuff" there's nothing wrong with that.
100%, no argument here!
Jul 14, 2017, 11:19 am
#644
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,195
Well sure, no one's forcing you to do anything but if you want to compare different ways to use points and which usage is better for you then you need to think about things in terms of their value.
But if you just want to view it as "I have these points and I can spend them on stuff" there's nothing wrong with that.
100%, no argument here!
but if you want to compare different ways to use points and which usage is better for you then you need to think about things in terms of their value.But if you just want to view it as "I have these points and I can spend them on stuff" there's nothing wrong with that.
100%, no argument here!
Jul 14, 2017, 12:37 pm
#645
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,947