Jan 31, 2024, 5:20 pm
Last edit by: ATLCDG
Content from on.the.bowery
In 2024, customers will find La Premiere on to 11 destinations.
La Premiere is available if you are flying to Tokyo, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New-York City (JFK), Washington DC, Miami, Abidjan, Singapore,Mexico City*, Sao Paulo and Dubai.
*Please note that Air France will discontinue the La Premiere service on the Mexico City (MEX) route on the 31st of March.
In 2024, you will find La Premiere on the following flights :
(All flights are in / out of Paris CDG. Exact timing varies during the year. These times are based on departures and arrivals in the month of May or August (middle of 2024)).
From Paris to New York City (JFK) :
AF4 10:30 - 12:45
AF6 13:30 - 15:50
AF8 16:30 - 18:50 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF10 18:30 - 20:40 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)
From New York City (JFK) to Paris :
AF1 16:30 - 05:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF9 23:15 - 12:40+1 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)
From Paris to Los Angeles (LAX) :
AF20 08:45 - 11:25 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF22 10:40 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
From Los Angeles (LAX) to Paris :
AF21 13:40 - 09:20+1 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF23 15:20 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
From Paris to San Francisco (SFO) :
AF84 10:15 - 12:45
From San Francisco (SFO) to Paris :
AF83 15:00 - 10:50+1
From Paris to Abidjan (ABJ) :
AF702 14:35 - 18:55
From Abidjan (ABJ) to Paris :
AF703 21:30 - 05:55+1
From Paris to Singapore (SIN) :
AF256 21:15 - 16:30+1
From Singapore (SIN) to Paris :
AF257 22:30 - 06:10+1
From Paris to Miami (MIA) :
AF90 14:05 - 17:55
From Miami (MIA) to Paris :
AF99 20:15 - 11:15+1
From Paris to Tokyo Haneda (HND) :
AF274 22:00 - 18:30+1
From Tokyo Haneda (HND) to Paris :
AF293 00:05 - 07:55
From Paris to Washington (IAD) :
AF54 14:00 - 16:21
From Washington (IAD) to Paris :
AF55 18:45 - 08:05+1
From Paris to Sao Paulo (GRU) :
AF460 10:10 - 16:45
From Sao Paulo (GRU) to Paris :
AF459 18:55 - 11:05+1
From Paris to Dubai (DXB) :
AF662 13:45 - 22:25
From Dubai (DXB) to Paris :
AF655 00:40 - 06:00
From Paris to Mexico City (MEX) :
AF178 11:35 - 16:55 (ends in March)
From Mexico City (MEX) to Paris :
AF179 19:55 - 14:35+1 (ends in March)
Previously this travel class was available on the 772 too.
These flights are operated by a fleet of 19 specific 777-300ER (F-GSQA/B/C/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/U/V/Y and F-GZNA/B/C/D, and E)
Other routes that previously operated La Premiere service but are now terminated (as P service) included Osaka, Lagos, Beijing, Atlanta, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chicago, Houston, Montreal and Johannesburg. (Or even the overnight flight to Sao Paulo for example.)
In 2024, customers will find La Premiere on to 11 destinations.
La Premiere is available if you are flying to Tokyo, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New-York City (JFK), Washington DC, Miami, Abidjan, Singapore,
*Please note that Air France will discontinue the La Premiere service on the Mexico City (MEX) route on the 31st of March.
In 2024, you will find La Premiere on the following flights :
(All flights are in / out of Paris CDG. Exact timing varies during the year. These times are based on departures and arrivals in the month of May or August (middle of 2024)).
From Paris to New York City (JFK) :
AF4 10:30 - 12:45
AF6 13:30 - 15:50
AF8 16:30 - 18:50 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF10 18:30 - 20:40 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)
From New York City (JFK) to Paris :
AF1 16:30 - 05:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1 (This flight does not systematically offer P Product)
AF9 23:15 - 12:40+1 (This flight will not offer P product after the month of June)
From Paris to Los Angeles (LAX) :
AF20 08:45 - 11:25 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF22 10:40 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
From Los Angeles (LAX) to Paris :
AF21 13:40 - 09:20+1 (P Product on this flight only in July and August)
AF23 15:20 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
From Paris to San Francisco (SFO) :
AF84 10:15 - 12:45
From San Francisco (SFO) to Paris :
AF83 15:00 - 10:50+1
From Paris to Abidjan (ABJ) :
AF702 14:35 - 18:55
From Abidjan (ABJ) to Paris :
AF703 21:30 - 05:55+1
From Paris to Singapore (SIN) :
AF256 21:15 - 16:30+1
From Singapore (SIN) to Paris :
AF257 22:30 - 06:10+1
From Paris to Miami (MIA) :
AF90 14:05 - 17:55
From Miami (MIA) to Paris :
AF99 20:15 - 11:15+1
From Paris to Tokyo Haneda (HND) :
AF274 22:00 - 18:30+1
From Tokyo Haneda (HND) to Paris :
AF293 00:05 - 07:55
From Paris to Washington (IAD) :
AF54 14:00 - 16:21
From Washington (IAD) to Paris :
AF55 18:45 - 08:05+1
From Paris to Sao Paulo (GRU) :
AF460 10:10 - 16:45
From Sao Paulo (GRU) to Paris :
AF459 18:55 - 11:05+1
From Paris to Dubai (DXB) :
AF662 13:45 - 22:25
From Dubai (DXB) to Paris :
AF655 00:40 - 06:00
From Paris to Mexico City (MEX) :
AF178 11:35 - 16:55 (ends in March)
From Mexico City (MEX) to Paris :
AF179 19:55 - 14:35+1 (ends in March)
Previously this travel class was available on the 772 too.
These flights are operated by a fleet of 19 specific 777-300ER (F-GSQA/B/C/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/U/V/Y and F-GZNA/B/C/D, and E)
Other routes that previously operated La Premiere service but are now terminated (as P service) included Osaka, Lagos, Beijing, Atlanta, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Chicago, Houston, Montreal and Johannesburg. (Or even the overnight flight to Sao Paulo for example.)
AF « La Première » Outlook
Nov 11, 2020, 6:44 am
#196
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
AF only has 19 77W with 4 F seats., total 76 seats
LH has 19 748 and 10 A346 with 8 seats , total 232 seats.
But you are right that LH is basically stopping F service to use small planes.
AF probably has very, very few rev F pax every day (our own matmatlr is an exception),
LH has 19 748 and 10 A346 with 8 seats , total 232 seats.
But you are right that LH is basically stopping F service to use small planes.
AF probably has very, very few rev F pax every day (our own matmatlr is an exception),
Air France. 76 seats
Lufthansa: 232 seats
Swiss: 248 seats
Of course this is not the F capacity currently deployed. LH has halted deploying planes with F capacity almost entirely until spring. LX only operates a fraction of its fleet right now. But this may very well be the situation say next summer, when LH and AF have sent their A380s to the desert, while LX may very well be operating its full fleet (LH wants to reroute some pax through ZRH, especially those that cannot fly F on Lufthansa anymore).
Switzerland will remain the last bastion of First Class? And doesn't have the best First Class ground product...
Nov 11, 2020, 12:06 pm
#197
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,040
Indeed, P lounge (I mean mezzanine in biz lounge in K) is pretty empty.
We were 3 last sunday
MEX in P used to be almost full with A380 cabin (9 available seats).
I was the only one passenger for both flights in September, same this week...
Let's hope that AF does not think to stop P for a while...
We were 3 last sunday
MEX in P used to be almost full with A380 cabin (9 available seats).
I was the only one passenger for both flights in September, same this week...
Let's hope that AF does not think to stop P for a while...
Nov 12, 2020, 8:33 am
#199
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,040
I have a trip planned between MUC - CDG - GRU in J for early December
As P is not offered any longer to GRU, I exceptionally added P ground service as an extra
Will P ground service be offered only in CDG or can I expect something special in MUC as well ? Considering that boarding is always by bus...
Thanks
As P is not offered any longer to GRU, I exceptionally added P ground service as an extra
Will P ground service be offered only in CDG or can I expect something special in MUC as well ? Considering that boarding is always by bus...
Thanks
Nov 12, 2020, 8:37 am
#200
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
None of the airlines use all the planes mentioned above.
for example, out of the 8 destinations served by AF with F, only LAX and JFK have a daily flight. No more than 5 or 6 77W with F depart CDG on a given day. The 19 F-equipped birds are far from being used.
AF must need 777s for cargo, so that might be a reason to keep them flying. But it must be quite expensive to fly a big 777 with low pax load.
for example, out of the 8 destinations served by AF with F, only LAX and JFK have a daily flight. No more than 5 or 6 77W with F depart CDG on a given day. The 19 F-equipped birds are far from being used.
AF must need 777s for cargo, so that might be a reason to keep them flying. But it must be quite expensive to fly a big 777 with low pax load.
Last edited by brunos; Nov 12, 2020 at 8:48 am
Nov 12, 2020, 10:25 am
#201
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
Nov 12, 2020, 11:34 am
#202
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,935
Nov 13, 2020, 11:22 am
#203
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NYC -- UA 1K; SPG Platinum; HH Diamond.
Posts: 2,924
Nov 15, 2020, 12:31 pm
#204
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,051
Optimistic remark for La Premiere :
the AF routes served with P cabin are quite limited actually but all these last days when i had a look at the booked seats in P (expertflyer), I observed that it was very descent (2 seats sold in average) and I would say that the P seems to have the highest loading factor compared to J, W and Y especially for LAX and JFK 👍
the AF routes served with P cabin are quite limited actually but all these last days when i had a look at the booked seats in P (expertflyer), I observed that it was very descent (2 seats sold in average) and I would say that the P seems to have the highest loading factor compared to J, W and Y especially for LAX and JFK 👍
Last edited by Bullspread; Nov 15, 2020 at 12:51 pm
Dec 1, 2020, 11:24 pm
#207
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,051
La Première Outlook confirmation
https://simpleflying.com/air-france-...t-class-cabin/
AF CEO Ben Smith has confirmed the commitment of the company to keep a First class La Premiere product and to keep investing in this splendid product 👍
« Air France… is still one of the only carriers that has first class, La Premier, which is usually viewed as best in class. So, we’ve decided to reinvest in that. We’re going to keep it.”
AF CEO Ben Smith has confirmed the commitment of the company to keep a First class La Premiere product and to keep investing in this splendid product 👍
« Air France… is still one of the only carriers that has first class, La Premier, which is usually viewed as best in class. So, we’ve decided to reinvest in that. We’re going to keep it.”
Dec 2, 2020, 1:54 am
#208
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: AF/KL FB Plat ; A3 Gold ; HH Gold ; IHG Plat Amb
Posts: 2,380
From this article, Ben Smith says that 50% of premium class travellers (on long haul + connecting I guess) are actually leisure travellers rather than business travellers. Interesting, that means he understands that they cannot rely too much on captive travellers who don't pay for tickets from their own pocket, since leisure travellers have typically more choice than business travellers.
Dec 2, 2020, 2:07 am
#209
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London, Paris
Programs: LH HON, AF Platinum
Posts: 2,001
Makes a lot of sense. Premium fare prices have decreased significantly over the years, including F fares. I’d never pay $15k out of pocket for a ticket, but $3k-$7k is doable. And business fares have been coming in as low as $1.5k.
Leisure travelers also book earlier and don’t need as much flexibility. Frequency is probably a bit lower compared to your typical business roadwarrior. I doubt your common premium class leisure traveler is doing more than two or three of these long haul trips per year. Perhaps barely enough for FB Gold?
Leisure travelers also book earlier and don’t need as much flexibility. Frequency is probably a bit lower compared to your typical business roadwarrior. I doubt your common premium class leisure traveler is doing more than two or three of these long haul trips per year. Perhaps barely enough for FB Gold?
Dec 2, 2020, 7:59 am
#210
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
From this article, Ben Smith says that 50% of premium class travellers (on long haul + connecting I guess) are actually leisure travellers rather than business travellers. Interesting, that means he understands that they cannot rely too much on captive travellers who don't pay for tickets from their own pocket, since leisure travellers have typically more choice than business travellers.