Jan 31, 2024, 5:20 pm
Last edit by: on.the.bowery
Content from on.the.bowery
In 2025, La Premiere is available on to 10 destinations.
La Premiere is available if you are flying to Tokyo (HND), Los Angeles, San Francisco, New-York City (JFK), Washington DC, Miami, Abidjan, Singapore, Sao Paulo and Dubai.
In 2025, you will find La Premiere on the following flights :
All flights are in / out of Paris CDG. AIR FRANCE LA PREMIERE 2025 Q1, Q2 AND Q3 SCHEDULE
Before US DST = Before 9th of March 2025
Between US and EU DST = Between 9th and 30th of March 2025
During EU DST = Starts 30th of March 2025
Peak Season = June, July, August
NEW YORK JFK (3X to 5X DAILY)
BEFORE US DST (9TH OF MARCH) :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 13:00
AF6 13:30 - 16:10
AF8 16:30 - 19:10
FROM JFK
AF1 16:30 - 05:45+1
AF5 18:30 - 07:50+1
AF7 21:30 - 10:50+1
BETWEEN US DST AND EU DST :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 14:00
AF6 13:30 - 17:10
AF8 16:30 - 20:10
FROM JFK
AF1 17:30 - 05:45+1
AF5 19:30 - 07:50+1
AF7 22:30 - 10:50+1
DURING EU DST (LOW SEASON) :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 12:40
AF6 13:30 - 15:45
AF8 16:30 - 18:45
FROM JFK
AF3 17:30 - 06:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1
DURING EU DST (PEAK SEASON) :
TO JFK
AF2 08:30 - 10:30
AF4 10:30 - 12:40
AF6 13:30 - 15:45
AF8 16:30 - 18:45
AF10 18:30 - 20:55
FROM JFK
AF1 16:30 - 05:55+1
AF3 17:30 - 06:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1
AF9 23:30 - 13:00+1
Notes on the JFK operations :
THE FLAGSHIP FLIGHTS ARE AF4, AF6 AND AF8.
AF10 / AF9 OPERATE WITH LA PREMIERE FROM JUNE 2ND UNTIL OCTOBER 25TH ONLY (PEAK). AF10 OPERATES WITHOUT LA PREMIERE FROM THE 14TH OF APRIL ONWARDS, BUT ONLY ON MONDAYS, WEDNESDAYS AND FRIDAYS (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE 29TH OF MAY AND UNTIL THE 2ND OF JUNE, WHEN IT BECOMES DAILY).
BEFORE 30TH OF MARCH 2025:
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS ON AF1
AFTER 30TH OF MARCH 2025:
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS ON AF3
STARTING 9TH OF JUNE:
A/C OPERATING AF2, RETURNS ON AF1
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS AS AF3
THE 16:30, 17:30 AND 18:30 SLOTS ALTERNATE BETWEEN NUMBERS 1, 3 AND 5.
AF1 OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT UNTIL EU DST AND IS OPERATED WITH THE AC ARRIVING ON AF4, THEN ONLY OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT AGAIN STARTING THE 9TH OF JUNE UNTIL THE 25TH OF OCTOBER WITH THE AIRCRAFT ARRIVING ON AF2.
NOTE THAT THIS ROUTE IS HEAVILY SUBJECT TO LAST MINUTE AIRCRAFT CHANGES. EVEN ON FLAGSHIP 777 ROUTES. DOWNGRADES HAVE BEEN REPORTED MULTIPLE TIMES.
LOS ANGELES (2X to 3X Daily)
BEFORE US DST
TO LAX
AF22 10:15 - 13:05
AF24 13:20 - 16:10
FROM LAX
AF23 15:25 - 11:10+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
BETWEEN US DST AND EU DST :
TO LAX
AF22 10:15 - 13:55
AF24 13:20 - 17:20
FROM LAX
AF23 16:15 - 11:00+1
AF25 19:30 - 14:20+1
DURING EU DST (LOW SEASON)
TO LAX
AF22 10:30 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
FROM LAX
AF23 15:25 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
DURING EU DST (PEAK SEASON)
TO LAX
AF20 08:45 - 11:20
AF22 10:30 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
FROM LAX
AF21 13:40 - 09:30+1
AF23 15:25 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20 +1
Notes on the LAX operations :
AF 20 / 21 ONLY OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT FROM THE 23RD OF JUNE UNTIL THE 31ST OF AUGUST. BEFORE THE 31ST OF MAY 2025, THIS FLIGHT IS NOT AVAILABLE ON SUNDAYS AND WEDNESDAYS. IN APRIL THIS FLIGHT ONLY OPERATES ON MONDAYS, THURSDAYS AND SUNDAYS.
WASHINGTON IAD
BEFORE US DST
TO IAD
AF50 13:35 - 16:25
FROM IAD
AF51 18:40 - 08:10+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO IAD
AF50 13:25 - 17:15
FROM IAD
AF51 19:30 - 08:00+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASON)
TO IAD
AF50 13:40 - 16:15
FROM IAD
AF51 18:30 - 08:15+1
SAN FRANCISCO SFO
BEFORE US DST
TO SFO
AF84 10:25 - 13:10
FROM SFO
AF83 15:25 - 11:20+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO SFO
AF84 10:25 - 14:10
FROM SFO
AF83 16:25 - 11:20+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASON)
TO SFO
AF84 10:20 - 12:50
FROM SFO
AF83 15:05 - 10:55+1
MIAMI MIA
(MAJOR SCHEDULE CHANGE)
BEFORE US DST
TO MIA
AF90 13:10 - 17:30
FROM MIA
AF99 19:50 - 10:45+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO MIA
AF90 13:10 - 18:30
FROM MIA
AF99 20:50 - 10:45+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASONS)
TO MIA
AF90 10:25 - 14:15
FROM MIA
AF91 16:35 - 07:35+1
Notes on the MIA operations :
THE RETURN FLIGHTS FROM MIAMI TO PARIS CDG WILL CHANGE NUMBERS AFTER THE 31ST OF MARCH. AF99 AND AF95 WILL BECOME AF91 AND AF93. THESE FLIGHTS WILL OPERATE MUCH EARLIER THAN BEFORE. LA PREMIERE IS ONLY AVAILABLE ON AF91.
SAO PAULO GRU
BEFORE EU DST
TO GRU
AF460 10:30 - 18:20
FROM GRU
AF459 20:30 - 11:55+1
DURING EU DST
TO GRU
AF460 10:10 - 17:00
FROM GRU
AF459 19:15 - 11:15+1
ABIDJAN
BEFORE EU DST :
TO ABJ
AF702 14:35 - 19:55
FROM ABJ
AF703 22:15 - 05:45+1
DURING EU DST :
TO ABJ
AF702 14:05 - 18:35
FROM ABJ
AF703 21:05 - 05:45+1
DUBAI
BEFORE EU DST
TO DXB
AF662 13:35 - 23:20
FROM DXB
AF655 01:30 - 06:25
DURING EU DST
TO DXB
AF662 13:40 - 22:35
FROM DXB
AF655 00:40 - 06:00
SINGAPORE
BEFORE EU DST
TO SIN
AF256 21:05 - 16:55+1
FROM SIN
AF257 22:55 - 06:10+1
DURING EU DST
TO SIN
AF256 21:15 - 16:30+1
FROM SIN
AF257 22:35 - 06:10+1
TOKYO HANEDA
BEFORE EU DST
TO HND
AF282 09:25 - 06:50+1 (NOT DAILY. LA PREMIERE RARELY AVAILABLE)
AF274 21:55 - 19:25+1
FROM HND
AF293 01:00 - 07:55 (3X WEEKLY)
AF281 09:05 - 15:55 (NOT DAILY. LA PREMIERE RARELY AVAILABLE)
AF279 22:50 - 05:45+1 (4X WEEKLY)
DURING EU DST
TO HND
AF274 22:00 - 18:30+1
FROM HND
AF293 00:05 - 08:00
Note on HND operations :
AF279 AND AF293 IS THE SAME RETURN FLIGHT OF AF274, UNDER TWO DIFFERENT CODES DUE TO THE SLOTS BEING ALLOCATED ON THE SAME DAY.
4X WEEKLY IT RETURNS BEFORE MIDNIGHT UNDER CODE AF279, THREE TIMES WEEKLY AFTER MIDNIGHT, IT RETURNS UNDER CODE AF293.
This cabin could become available on newer aircrafts and more routes in the future.
These flights are operated by a fleet of 20 specific 777-300ER (F-GSQA/B/C/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/U/V/Y and F-GZNA/B/C/D, E and Q)
Other routes that previously operated La Premiere service but are now terminated as P service) included Beirut, Osaka, Lagos, Beijing, Atlanta, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Mexico, Chicago, Houston, Montreal and Johannesburg. (Or even the overnight flight to Sao Paulo for example.)
In 2025, La Premiere is available on to 10 destinations.
La Premiere is available if you are flying to Tokyo (HND), Los Angeles, San Francisco, New-York City (JFK), Washington DC, Miami, Abidjan, Singapore, Sao Paulo and Dubai.
In 2025, you will find La Premiere on the following flights :
All flights are in / out of Paris CDG. AIR FRANCE LA PREMIERE 2025 Q1, Q2 AND Q3 SCHEDULE
Before US DST = Before 9th of March 2025
Between US and EU DST = Between 9th and 30th of March 2025
During EU DST = Starts 30th of March 2025
Peak Season = June, July, August
NEW YORK JFK (3X to 5X DAILY)
BEFORE US DST (9TH OF MARCH) :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 13:00
AF6 13:30 - 16:10
AF8 16:30 - 19:10
FROM JFK
AF1 16:30 - 05:45+1
AF5 18:30 - 07:50+1
AF7 21:30 - 10:50+1
BETWEEN US DST AND EU DST :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 14:00
AF6 13:30 - 17:10
AF8 16:30 - 20:10
FROM JFK
AF1 17:30 - 05:45+1
AF5 19:30 - 07:50+1
AF7 22:30 - 10:50+1
DURING EU DST (LOW SEASON) :
TO JFK
AF4 10:30 - 12:40
AF6 13:30 - 15:45
AF8 16:30 - 18:45
FROM JFK
AF3 17:30 - 06:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1
DURING EU DST (PEAK SEASON) :
TO JFK
AF2 08:30 - 10:30
AF4 10:30 - 12:40
AF6 13:30 - 15:45
AF8 16:30 - 18:45
AF10 18:30 - 20:55
FROM JFK
AF1 16:30 - 05:55+1
AF3 17:30 - 06:55+1
AF5 18:30 - 08:05+1
AF7 21:30 - 11:05+1
AF9 23:30 - 13:00+1
Notes on the JFK operations :
THE FLAGSHIP FLIGHTS ARE AF4, AF6 AND AF8.
AF10 / AF9 OPERATE WITH LA PREMIERE FROM JUNE 2ND UNTIL OCTOBER 25TH ONLY (PEAK). AF10 OPERATES WITHOUT LA PREMIERE FROM THE 14TH OF APRIL ONWARDS, BUT ONLY ON MONDAYS, WEDNESDAYS AND FRIDAYS (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE 29TH OF MAY AND UNTIL THE 2ND OF JUNE, WHEN IT BECOMES DAILY).
BEFORE 30TH OF MARCH 2025:
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS ON AF1
AFTER 30TH OF MARCH 2025:
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS ON AF3
STARTING 9TH OF JUNE:
A/C OPERATING AF2, RETURNS ON AF1
A/C OPERATING AF4, RETURNS AS AF3
THE 16:30, 17:30 AND 18:30 SLOTS ALTERNATE BETWEEN NUMBERS 1, 3 AND 5.
AF1 OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT UNTIL EU DST AND IS OPERATED WITH THE AC ARRIVING ON AF4, THEN ONLY OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT AGAIN STARTING THE 9TH OF JUNE UNTIL THE 25TH OF OCTOBER WITH THE AIRCRAFT ARRIVING ON AF2.
NOTE THAT THIS ROUTE IS HEAVILY SUBJECT TO LAST MINUTE AIRCRAFT CHANGES. EVEN ON FLAGSHIP 777 ROUTES. DOWNGRADES HAVE BEEN REPORTED MULTIPLE TIMES.
LOS ANGELES (2X to 3X Daily)
BEFORE US DST
TO LAX
AF22 10:15 - 13:05
AF24 13:20 - 16:10
FROM LAX
AF23 15:25 - 11:10+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
BETWEEN US DST AND EU DST :
TO LAX
AF22 10:15 - 13:55
AF24 13:20 - 17:20
FROM LAX
AF23 16:15 - 11:00+1
AF25 19:30 - 14:20+1
DURING EU DST (LOW SEASON)
TO LAX
AF22 10:30 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
FROM LAX
AF23 15:25 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20+1
DURING EU DST (PEAK SEASON)
TO LAX
AF20 08:45 - 11:20
AF22 10:30 - 13:05
AF24 13:30 - 16:05
FROM LAX
AF21 13:40 - 09:30+1
AF23 15:25 - 11:15+1
AF25 18:30 - 14:20 +1
Notes on the LAX operations :
AF 20 / 21 ONLY OPERATES WITH P PRODUCT FROM THE 23RD OF JUNE UNTIL THE 31ST OF AUGUST. BEFORE THE 31ST OF MAY 2025, THIS FLIGHT IS NOT AVAILABLE ON SUNDAYS AND WEDNESDAYS. IN APRIL THIS FLIGHT ONLY OPERATES ON MONDAYS, THURSDAYS AND SUNDAYS.
WASHINGTON IAD
BEFORE US DST
TO IAD
AF50 13:35 - 16:25
FROM IAD
AF51 18:40 - 08:10+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO IAD
AF50 13:25 - 17:15
FROM IAD
AF51 19:30 - 08:00+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASON)
TO IAD
AF50 13:40 - 16:15
FROM IAD
AF51 18:30 - 08:15+1
SAN FRANCISCO SFO
BEFORE US DST
TO SFO
AF84 10:25 - 13:10
FROM SFO
AF83 15:25 - 11:20+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO SFO
AF84 10:25 - 14:10
FROM SFO
AF83 16:25 - 11:20+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASON)
TO SFO
AF84 10:20 - 12:50
FROM SFO
AF83 15:05 - 10:55+1
MIAMI MIA
(MAJOR SCHEDULE CHANGE)
BEFORE US DST
TO MIA
AF90 13:10 - 17:30
FROM MIA
AF99 19:50 - 10:45+1
BETWEEN US AND EU DST
TO MIA
AF90 13:10 - 18:30
FROM MIA
AF99 20:50 - 10:45+1
DURING EU DST (LOW AND PEAK SEASONS)
TO MIA
AF90 10:25 - 14:15
FROM MIA
AF91 16:35 - 07:35+1
Notes on the MIA operations :
THE RETURN FLIGHTS FROM MIAMI TO PARIS CDG WILL CHANGE NUMBERS AFTER THE 31ST OF MARCH. AF99 AND AF95 WILL BECOME AF91 AND AF93. THESE FLIGHTS WILL OPERATE MUCH EARLIER THAN BEFORE. LA PREMIERE IS ONLY AVAILABLE ON AF91.
SAO PAULO GRU
BEFORE EU DST
TO GRU
AF460 10:30 - 18:20
FROM GRU
AF459 20:30 - 11:55+1
DURING EU DST
TO GRU
AF460 10:10 - 17:00
FROM GRU
AF459 19:15 - 11:15+1
ABIDJAN
BEFORE EU DST :
TO ABJ
AF702 14:35 - 19:55
FROM ABJ
AF703 22:15 - 05:45+1
DURING EU DST :
TO ABJ
AF702 14:05 - 18:35
FROM ABJ
AF703 21:05 - 05:45+1
DUBAI
BEFORE EU DST
TO DXB
AF662 13:35 - 23:20
FROM DXB
AF655 01:30 - 06:25
DURING EU DST
TO DXB
AF662 13:40 - 22:35
FROM DXB
AF655 00:40 - 06:00
SINGAPORE
BEFORE EU DST
TO SIN
AF256 21:05 - 16:55+1
FROM SIN
AF257 22:55 - 06:10+1
DURING EU DST
TO SIN
AF256 21:15 - 16:30+1
FROM SIN
AF257 22:35 - 06:10+1
TOKYO HANEDA
BEFORE EU DST
TO HND
AF282 09:25 - 06:50+1 (NOT DAILY. LA PREMIERE RARELY AVAILABLE)
AF274 21:55 - 19:25+1
FROM HND
AF293 01:00 - 07:55 (3X WEEKLY)
AF281 09:05 - 15:55 (NOT DAILY. LA PREMIERE RARELY AVAILABLE)
AF279 22:50 - 05:45+1 (4X WEEKLY)
DURING EU DST
TO HND
AF274 22:00 - 18:30+1
FROM HND
AF293 00:05 - 08:00
Note on HND operations :
AF279 AND AF293 IS THE SAME RETURN FLIGHT OF AF274, UNDER TWO DIFFERENT CODES DUE TO THE SLOTS BEING ALLOCATED ON THE SAME DAY.
4X WEEKLY IT RETURNS BEFORE MIDNIGHT UNDER CODE AF279, THREE TIMES WEEKLY AFTER MIDNIGHT, IT RETURNS UNDER CODE AF293.
This cabin could become available on newer aircrafts and more routes in the future.
These flights are operated by a fleet of 20 specific 777-300ER (F-GSQA/B/C/F/G/H/I/J/K/L/M/U/V/Y and F-GZNA/B/C/D, E and Q)
Other routes that previously operated La Premiere service but are now terminated as P service) included Beirut, Osaka, Lagos, Beijing, Atlanta, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Mexico, Chicago, Houston, Montreal and Johannesburg. (Or even the overnight flight to Sao Paulo for example.)
AF « La Premičre » Outlook
May 28, 2020 | 4:56 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
AF « La Premičre » Outlook
I initiate this thread as P product is frequently discussed on sub forums.
Last edited by Bullspread; Sep 6, 2020 at 12:45 am
May 28, 2020 | 4:59 am
#2
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
Following the retreat of the A380 , I notice today that Yield Management reduced the availability of buckets fares P and F to a maximum of 4 to 3 to anticipate the switch of airplane from an A380 to 77W
May 28, 2020 | 5:30 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: BHD/DUB/PTY
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 497
Will AF install more La Premičre seats now that the A380s are gone? Not all of the 77Ws have La Premičre, so they could install them there.
Some other airlines have managed to put First Class on their 787-9s and A350-900s. Don't see AF doing so, but at least there's the opportunity.
Some other airlines have managed to put First Class on their 787-9s and A350-900s. Don't see AF doing so, but at least there's the opportunity.
May 28, 2020 | 6:49 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Singapore
Programs: FB ulti/PFL, ALL Diamond, Marriott Ambassador, EK PLAT, Air Caraďbes Diam, SQ PPS, ̷IHG Diam
Posts: 114
I think AF will get rid of La Premičre within one or two years. The 777 300 ER fleet with 4 F seats is not big enough to justify to keep this class.
May 28, 2020 | 6:49 am
#5
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AMS,MIL,PAR
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 266
Will AF install more La Premičre seats now that the A380s are gone? Not all of the 77Ws have La Premičre, so they could install them there.
Some other airlines have managed to put First Class on their 787-9s and A350-900s. Don't see AF doing so, but at least there's the opportunity.
Some other airlines have managed to put First Class on their 787-9s and A350-900s. Don't see AF doing so, but at least there's the opportunity.
May 28, 2020 | 7:01 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AMS,MIL,PAR
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 266
But I guess that all will depend on how much demand for travel there will be in 6-12 months from now. If anything, I'd imagine that the demand for business and luxury travel would suffer less than for economy.
May 28, 2020 | 7:08 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Etoile, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 8,903
Removing the P seats from planes will also have the cost of reconfiguration.
May 28, 2020 | 7:16 am
#8
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum for Life (elect)
Posts: 328
May 28, 2020 | 7:35 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
Of this I am not sure. I think it is a big part of AF selling point as a premium airline. Moreover, AF first class while pricey used to sell quite well. If there is demand and they can operate the B773s with a full P cabin, I don't see why they should stop. They have 19 planes with P (according to Wikipedia France), and I don't see them reconfiguring them or retiring them any time soon.
But I guess that all will depend on how much demand for travel there will be in 6-12 months from now. If anything, I'd imagine that the demand for business and luxury travel would suffer less than for economy.
But I guess that all will depend on how much demand for travel there will be in 6-12 months from now. If anything, I'd imagine that the demand for business and luxury travel would suffer less than for economy.
whereas the demand for First class used by wealthy Pax could be less affected (LAX, NYC, HKG)
May 28, 2020 | 7:43 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,453
if I take my example as Ultimate member, I fly AF because they have a very descent First class product.
Should they turn into an only Business/Eco product, I will turn to Star Alliance who have a descent F offer (SQ, LX, LH, ANA) and I will select this alliance rather than Skyteam even on J flights)
Last edited by Bullspread; May 28, 2020 at 9:42 am
May 28, 2020 | 7:23 pm
#11
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AMS,MIL,PAR
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 266
Indeed. My best guess is that they will keep the P as it is on the 773 for several months, until it is clear where the demand is going (and what is the fate of air travel worldwide). Any other move is either costly (refurbishing) or risky. For instance, scrapping the whole P experience and offering a "premium business experience" consisting of a better seat would mean a much lower price point and, more importantly, would damage the brand of La Premiere irreparably (meaning, if it does not work it will be very hard to go back to selling a premium product for three times the cost of a J seat).
May 29, 2020 | 12:47 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold/OW emerald, QR
Posts: 16,963
Of this I am not sure. I think it is a big part of AF selling point as a premium airline. Moreover, AF first class while pricey used to sell quite well. If there is demand and they can operate the B773s with a full P cabin, I don't see why they should stop. They have 19 planes with P (according to Wikipedia France), and I don't see them reconfiguring them or retiring them any time soon.
But I guess that all will depend on how much demand for travel there will be in 6-12 months from now. If anything, I'd imagine that the demand for business and luxury travel would suffer less than for economy.
But I guess that all will depend on how much demand for travel there will be in 6-12 months from now. If anything, I'd imagine that the demand for business and luxury travel would suffer less than for economy.
Regarding your points. There is no way that longhaul air travel will reach pre-covid levels in the next 12 months. Maybe AF will restore most of its flights, but loads will be less.
P is a big marketing part in AF advertising. Whether it is successful is another question. It might be in America where national airlines have a mediocre F product, if any. At the other end of the spectrum, AF premium image is poor in Asia. Unreliable-airline perception and the mix of old and up-to-date J seats are damaging. Over half of AF P seats were antique and did not help either. Other Asian airlines have excellent F too (CX, SQ, NH, JL, KE, OZ,..). Furthermore, it is unclear whether advertising a great F will boost Y or J travel. I do understand that some posters here would be upset if AF removes P, but AF should take a rational business approach to the decision, not wishful thinking.
It is likely that the future of P is not an urgent matter for AF. AF will wait to reach a decision. With the removal of A380s, one waiting position would be to temporarily halt offering F and the huge cost involved. There will be plenty of overcapacity in the coming months (possibly years), so no need to spend on retrofit.The 4 P seats could fly empty or be used for opup of some J pax, but with J service.
May 29, 2020 | 4:32 am
#13
Join Date: May 2017
Location: MAN
Programs: FB Platinum for Life (elect)
Posts: 328
It is likely that the future of P is not an urgent matter for AF. AF will wait to reach a decision. With the removal of A380s, one waiting position would be to temporarily halt offering F and the huge cost involved. There will be plenty of overcapacity in the coming months (possibly years), so no need to spend on retrofit.The 4 P seats could fly empty or be used for opup of some J pax, but with J service.
May 29, 2020 | 4:34 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Singapore
Programs: FB ulti/PFL, ALL Diamond, Marriott Ambassador, EK PLAT, Air Caraďbes Diam, SQ PPS, ̷IHG Diam
Posts: 114
I already made some comments here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32407365-post2891.html
Regarding your points. There is no way that longhaul air travel will reach pre-covid levels in the next 12 months. Maybe AF will restore most of its flights, but loads will be less.
P is a big marketing part in AF advertising. Whether it is successful is another question. It might be in America where national airlines have a mediocre F product, if any. At the other end of the spectrum, AF premium image is poor in Asia. Unreliable-airline perception and the mix of old and up-to-date J seats are damaging. Over half of AF P seats were antique and did not help either. Other Asian airlines have excellent F too (CX, SQ, NH, JL, KE, OZ,..). Furthermore, it is unclear whether advertising a great F will boost Y or J travel. I do understand that some posters here would be upset if AF removes P, but AF should take a rational business approach to the decision, not wishful thinking.
It is likely that the future of P is not an urgent matter for AF. AF will wait to reach a decision. With the removal of A380s, one waiting position would be to temporarily halt offering F and the huge cost involved. There will be plenty of overcapacity in the coming months (possibly years), so no need to spend on retrofit.The 4 P seats could fly empty or be used for opup of some J pax, but with J service.
Regarding your points. There is no way that longhaul air travel will reach pre-covid levels in the next 12 months. Maybe AF will restore most of its flights, but loads will be less.
P is a big marketing part in AF advertising. Whether it is successful is another question. It might be in America where national airlines have a mediocre F product, if any. At the other end of the spectrum, AF premium image is poor in Asia. Unreliable-airline perception and the mix of old and up-to-date J seats are damaging. Over half of AF P seats were antique and did not help either. Other Asian airlines have excellent F too (CX, SQ, NH, JL, KE, OZ,..). Furthermore, it is unclear whether advertising a great F will boost Y or J travel. I do understand that some posters here would be upset if AF removes P, but AF should take a rational business approach to the decision, not wishful thinking.
It is likely that the future of P is not an urgent matter for AF. AF will wait to reach a decision. With the removal of A380s, one waiting position would be to temporarily halt offering F and the huge cost involved. There will be plenty of overcapacity in the coming months (possibly years), so no need to spend on retrofit.The 4 P seats could fly empty or be used for opup of some J pax, but with J service.
May 29, 2020 | 6:16 am
#15
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AF is anyway in the process of refitting their 3-class B77W with new J-seats, so the additional cost of configuring them with a 4-8 seat P-cabin is negligible. I firmly believe this was anyway the original plan to compensate for the A380 removal. Now while the A380 goes faster, demand will not pick up that fast, so they will have until around 2022 to offer the full P-capacity in the network.
Having just 76 P-seats in the fleet will not warrant the fixed cost of providing P-service (P-lounge, staff, etc.). So either they (mostly) compensate the A380 P-capacity or completely remove P. I believe Paris warrants a La Premiere offering from its flag carrier. Focus is on the long-term with an investment horizon over the next 10 years, not the short-term Corona period. Those who invest in the crisis, will come back stronger afterwards.
Having just 76 P-seats in the fleet will not warrant the fixed cost of providing P-service (P-lounge, staff, etc.). So either they (mostly) compensate the A380 P-capacity or completely remove P. I believe Paris warrants a La Premiere offering from its flag carrier. Focus is on the long-term with an investment horizon over the next 10 years, not the short-term Corona period. Those who invest in the crisis, will come back stronger afterwards.