Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Feb 26, 2019, 10:13 pm
#1201
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
btw...do you recall receiving all those emails from Air Canada heavily promoting Signature Service?
The Competition Act considers the following:
74.01 (1) A person engages in reviewable conduct who, for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, the supply or use of a product or for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, any business interest, by any means whatever, (a) makes a representation to the public that is false or misleading in a material respect;
So all those emails may also generate cause as follows:
False or misleading representation — electronic message
74.011 (2) A person engages in reviewable conduct who, for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, any business interest or the supply or use of a product, sends or causes to be sent in an electronic message a representation that is false or misleading in a material respect.
So the interesting term is "in a material respect" - since the lie-flat inflatable seats are a core feature of the Signature Service (IMHO), and who here would be paying AC J fares without this feature, would be hilarious to see AC try to argue in public that the deflating mattresses are NOT material to the core offering in the J cabin.
Would make a great tagline: AC Now Offers Park Bench Service
The Competition Act considers the following:
74.01 (1) A person engages in reviewable conduct who, for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, the supply or use of a product or for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, any business interest, by any means whatever, (a) makes a representation to the public that is false or misleading in a material respect;
So all those emails may also generate cause as follows:
False or misleading representation — electronic message
74.011 (2) A person engages in reviewable conduct who, for the purpose of promoting, directly or indirectly, any business interest or the supply or use of a product, sends or causes to be sent in an electronic message a representation that is false or misleading in a material respect.
So the interesting term is "in a material respect" - since the lie-flat inflatable seats are a core feature of the Signature Service (IMHO), and who here would be paying AC J fares without this feature, would be hilarious to see AC try to argue in public that the deflating mattresses are NOT material to the core offering in the J cabin.
Would make a great tagline: AC Now Offers Park Bench Service
- Executive or Classic Pods, with lumbar support and massage function, which convert to a fully flat bed: up to 203.2 cm (6' 7") long
-James
Feb 26, 2019, 10:52 pm
#1203
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 724
Feb 27, 2019, 1:25 pm
#1205
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
I would suggest that TC/FAA can definitely get involved if a seat is functionally different than when it was certified. The question, which I have posed before, is whether from a crashworthiness perspective a deflated seat provides less protection than originally certified. Initially my opinion was that there was a case to evaluate as a deflated headset would be substantively different and demonstrably more likely to lead to passenger head injury in a crash or even hard landing condition. However a couple of people have commented that the headrest section is in fact foam filled. This suggests somebody did their homework and considered the deflated seat possibility and designed accordingly. Thus, from a cetification perspective, a deflated seat, however uncomfortable, is highly likely to be equivalent to that approved.
Perhaps TC/FAA did test these seats for lumbar failure (a potential occurrence). However, they may also have only considered the legal settings the lumbar support could be in not realizing that the seat could suffer such a failure (remember these seats were considered revolutionary when they were first released, with few if any airlines having a mechanism similar to them)!
Safe Travels,
James
Mar 1, 2019, 6:23 pm
#1206
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 904
AC33 today on the YYZ-YVR segment. Will request Mx takes a look in YVR for the YVR-SYD segment. Was fine until pushback. Arg...going to be a long flight but I'll be able to report back on the sleeping pad.
Update: The Rondelle reset held for the YYZ-YVR segment. Concierge states that they won't coordinate changing the bladder in YVR as "This issue cannot be fixed during the stop-over in Vancouver as it requires much more time" .
Onwards to SYD, I guess.
Update: The Rondelle reset held for the YYZ-YVR segment. Concierge states that they won't coordinate changing the bladder in YVR as "This issue cannot be fixed during the stop-over in Vancouver as it requires much more time" .
Onwards to SYD, I guess.
Last edited by YVRtoYYZ; Mar 1, 2019 at 11:04 pm
Mar 1, 2019, 11:43 pm
#1207
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,196
Here we go again... Fin 742 seat 3G, back flat as a pancake.
Rather than downgrade one of the 14 nonrevs/upgrades maintenance attempted one reset, then the crew offered to show me how to put the thin mattress cover on.
Edit: deflated before we taxied for takeoff, got stuck in lie flat position during the meal, deflated a 3rd time and everyone gave up. they did offer a white form on their own.
Rather than downgrade one of the 14 nonrevs/upgrades maintenance attempted one reset, then the crew offered to show me how to put the thin mattress cover on.
Edit: deflated before we taxied for takeoff, got stuck in lie flat position during the meal, deflated a 3rd time and everyone gave up. they did offer a white form on their own.
Last edited by expert7700; Mar 2, 2019 at 4:24 am
Mar 1, 2019, 11:58 pm
#1208
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Mar 2, 2019, 1:24 am
#1209
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
Mar 2, 2019, 1:26 am
#1210
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
-James
Mar 2, 2019, 1:30 am
#1211
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,347
The white form is not an eMCO. It's a log of the incident that is submitted by the SD to customer relations.
Mar 2, 2019, 2:12 am
#1212
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 904
Further update from onboard AC33 YVR-SYD.
Mx came onboard, did the toggle reset and said "fixed"; I said "I doubt it, but thanks". Sure enough, deflated flat after de-icing. To add insult to injury, the compensation forms haven't been loaded.
Now...gotta give credit to SD Sunny. I'm fairly low-maintenance but he is definitely going out of his way to alleviate this issue as much as he can for the flight, so kudos to him. Will post pictures of the sleeping pad once the rondelle reset deflates in another 45 mins or so.
Mx came onboard, did the toggle reset and said "fixed"; I said "I doubt it, but thanks". Sure enough, deflated flat after de-icing. To add insult to injury, the compensation forms haven't been loaded.
Now...gotta give credit to SD Sunny. I'm fairly low-maintenance but he is definitely going out of his way to alleviate this issue as much as he can for the flight, so kudos to him. Will post pictures of the sleeping pad once the rondelle reset deflates in another 45 mins or so.
Mar 2, 2019, 3:24 am
#1213
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
AC847 MUC-YYZ on 3/2. 1G seatback deflated upon boarding. FA did a rondelle reset. Fingers crossed...
Update: Seatback deflated again before the doors have even closed.
Update 2: Crew (led by very friendly and proactive SD Janine) offered to move me to 11D. Unfortunately, 11D also has a deflated back. Janine then offered to move an employee seated in 9G, but I did not want to trouble the gentleman. It's a daytime flight so I can manage. At that point, Janine proactively offered me the onboard compensation form. Moreover, she apologized profusely and inquired whether Air Canada has been communicating this issue to SE members. I shared some honest feedback: I encounter #deflategate all the time, and the reaction from cabin crews has been very inconsistent. Some crew, like her, are proactive and apologetic and do everything they can to try to make things right, up to and including moving non-rev passengers and offering the compensation form. Others, on the other hand, act like they've never heard of this issue and trying to get a compensation form is more painful than pulling teeth. I pondered whether there's a 'corporate' directive to avoid handing out forms if possible. Janine assured me that's not the case. In fact, according to her, they've been instructed to do the opposite: To be very upfront and responsive in addressing this issue. Whether or not that's the case, Janine is certainly embracing that mindset.
Update: Seatback deflated again before the doors have even closed.
Update 2: Crew (led by very friendly and proactive SD Janine) offered to move me to 11D. Unfortunately, 11D also has a deflated back. Janine then offered to move an employee seated in 9G, but I did not want to trouble the gentleman. It's a daytime flight so I can manage. At that point, Janine proactively offered me the onboard compensation form. Moreover, she apologized profusely and inquired whether Air Canada has been communicating this issue to SE members. I shared some honest feedback: I encounter #deflategate all the time, and the reaction from cabin crews has been very inconsistent. Some crew, like her, are proactive and apologetic and do everything they can to try to make things right, up to and including moving non-rev passengers and offering the compensation form. Others, on the other hand, act like they've never heard of this issue and trying to get a compensation form is more painful than pulling teeth. I pondered whether there's a 'corporate' directive to avoid handing out forms if possible. Janine assured me that's not the case. In fact, according to her, they've been instructed to do the opposite: To be very upfront and responsive in addressing this issue. Whether or not that's the case, Janine is certainly embracing that mindset.
Last edited by capedreamer; Mar 2, 2019 at 5:00 am
Mar 2, 2019, 4:28 am
#1214
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,196
Next time I get one of these flat upon boarding I plan to walk back to the jetway and ask the gate agent to reseat me or juggle around the last upgraded or nonrev passenger. It's a fools game to put any hope in a pump reset when there is a leak.
Last edited by expert7700; Mar 2, 2019 at 11:19 am
Mar 2, 2019, 9:24 am
#1215
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
It's not like this comes as a surprise to anybody here anymore.
*I'm using the 'you' collectively, not personally here.