Oct 30, 2014, 12:48 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

="5"%New Aeroplan City Pair mileages:

How to get the MPM online: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28509402-post231.html

Between:

Europe 1-Asia 1:
FRA-NRT: 9642 (q)
NRT-NCE: 10,302 (q)

Europe 1 - Asia 2:
VIE-SGN 8464 (q)
GRZ-DPS 9965 (q)

Europe 2-Asia 1:
DME-NRT: ~~9,091~~ -- 7,288(q) (they lowered it??)
DME-KIX: 7,108 (q)
LED-NRT: 7,398 (q)
DME-HKT: 6,249 (q)

Europe 1-North America

Europe 1-Australia
-FRA-SYD: 16700 (RTW:FRA-BKK-SYD-ICN-ORD-YYZ-FRA)
-CDG-PPT: 16065
-CDG-AKL: 18952

Asia 1-Asia 1
-PVG-SIN: 4278 (q)

Asia 2-Asia 1
-MNL-PEK: 2990 (q)

Asia 1-South Pacific
-NRT-RAR: 9170 (q)

Asia 1-Southern South America
-PVG-EZE: 20142 (q)

Asia 2-Northern South America
-SIN-UIO: 20279 (q)

North America-Europe 1
YVR-CPH: 7609 (c)
YVR-ZRH: 8363 (c)
YVR-LYR: 6196 (q)
YVR-TOS: 7164 (q)
YVR-KEF: 8019 (q)
BOS-VCE: 6453 (c)
YYZ-ARN: 6099 (q)
YYC-CPH: 7958 (c)
YVR-DUB: 7609 (c)
LAX-DUB: 8849 (c)
SAN-DUB: 9309 (c)
YVR-CDG: 8383 (c)
SAN-CDG: 10145 (c)
YVR-OSL: 7609 (c)
SAN-OSL: 9627 (c)

North America-Europe 2
YUL-KRR: 8163 (q)
YEG-IST: 9196 (q)
YVR-WAW: 8473
YVR-BUD: 8934
YVR-ATH: 10097
YVR-VKO: 8490 (q)
YVR-IST: 9920 (c)
LAX-IST: 11387 (c)
JFK-IST: 8275 (c)
MIA-IST: 9881 (c)
SFO-IST: 11137 (c)
ORD-IST: 9077 (c)
IAH-IST: 10571 (c)
IAH-BJV: 10767 (c)

North America-Asia 1
-YVR-HKG - 8381 (c)
-YVR-HIJ 7092
-YYC-BKK - 9776 (q)
-YEG-HKG 9113
-YEG-SIN 11377
-YEG-BKK 10382
-YEG-HKG is 9137 (q)
-YEG-SIN is 13447 (q) May 20, 2017
-ORD-BKK - 13753 (q)
-YYZ-BKK - 11055 (q) YYZ-BKK 11905
-YYZ-HND - 9088
-YYZ-NRT - 9049 (q)
-YYZ-ICN - 9297 (q)
-YYZ-PEK - 9228 (q)
-YYZ-HKG - 10957 (q)
-YYZ-OKA - 10200 (q)
-YYZ-TPE - 10544
-YYT-TPE - 10389 (q)
-YYT-HKG - 10576 (q)
-YYT-MFM - 10582 (q)
-ICN-YUL - 9260 (q)
-ICN-YEG - 7351 (q)
-TYO-YUL - 9071 (q)
-OSA-YOW - 9256 (q)

North America-Asia 2
YQB-MNL - 13600
YUL-DPS - 16,240 (q)
YEG-KUL 13301
YEG-PNH 12298
YEG-CNX - 11822
YVR-RGN 12060
YVR-BKK 12150
YVR-SIN 13196
YVR-SGN 12120
YVR-MNL 10854
YVR-HKT - 12824 (q)
YYT-SIN - 14493 (q) Aug 17, 2018
YYT-BKK - 13045 (q)
YYT-SGN - 13585 (q)
YYZ-SIN - 13095 (q)
YYZ-HKT - 12480 (q)
YYZ-DPS - 16293(q) May 22, 2017
SFO-BKK - 13956
YOW-BKK - 12156 as per syntron's post.
SAN-KUL - 14729
SFO-KUL - 14012
KUL-LAX - 14565

North America-Australia, New Zealand
YYZ-SYD: 15540 (q)
YYZ-AKL: 13816 (q)
YYZ-MEL 16210 (q)
YYZ-PER 18050 (q)
YUL-PER 18164 (q)
NYC-PER 18633 (q)
PER-SFO 14714 (q)
BDA-PER 20444 (q)
MEL-YVR 13160 (q)
YEG-MEL 13921 (q)
YEG-AKL 12078 (q)
YEG-PER 14693 (c)
BNE-YVR 11820 (q)
YVR-PER 14765 (q)
SYD-YVR 12417 (q)
JFK-SYD 15965 (q)
JFK-MEL 16669 (q)
YYC-SYD 13,096 (q)
YYC-MEL 13,829 (q)
YYC-BNE 12,468 (q)
YYC-PER 15,384 (q)
MIA-PER 18,230 (q)
MIA-SYD 14,938 (q)
MIA-BNE 14,670 (q)

As per Novagirl17's post, Nov 28, 2016
YHZ-MEL, 17,460
YHZ-SYD, 16,735
YHZ-AKL, 15,068

As per Beavertails on 2018-01-08:
YOW-PER = 18,121
YUL-PER = 18,194
YHZ-PER = 18,462

As per ffsim on 2018-02-14:
YUL-SYD = 15,968

North America-Indian Subcontinent
-YVR-MLE: 14270 (q)

North America-Northern South America

North America-Southern South America
YVR-LIM 8364 (q)
SEA-LIM 8170 (q)
YVR-SCL 10813 (q) Apr 1, 2017
YVR-EZE 11,557 (q) May 10, 2017

North America-East, West & South Africa
YVR-JNB 16362 (q)
YVR-CPT 16108 (q)
YVR-LVI 15420 (q)
YVR-VFA 15474 (q)
YYZ-SEZ 13750 (q)
YVR-MRU 16700 (q)
YVR-SEZ 14956 (q)
YVR-MQX 12844 (q)
YYJ-MRU 16718 (q)
LAX-MRU 18356 (q)
SFO-MRU 17998 (q)
LAX-JNB 16585 (q)
SFO-JNB 16863 (q)
YYZ-SEZ 13750 (q)
YYZ-JNB 13268
JFK-MRU 14790

North America- Middle East
YVR - FRU 9935 (q)
YVR - TAS 10,100

Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM)

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Jul 10, 2017, 9:55 am

#241

JJonahJ

Join Date: Dec 2011

Location: Canada

Programs: *void

Posts: 2,408

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

As an addendum:

HKG-HND-FRA-EWR-YYZ in NH J, NH F, LH F and AC Y was rejected. That routing is only 11,854.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hkg-hnd-fra-ewr-yyz

Yet, HKG-FRA-MIA-YYZ (11,764) and HKG-FRA-IAH-YYZ (12,210) with the first two segments in LH F were also accepted.

Thanks for doing the legwork!

First routing is 11,854 miles, invalid though it's UNDER the "self-serve" 12,040 miles.
While one of the valid second routes is 12,210, which is OVER the 12,040 miles.

I guess the lesson here is to use the MPM values as a rough guide only, whether it's from this latest hacking trick or whether it's from those values posted in the WiKi of quotes/actual miles. All routings still need to be validated.

Jul 11, 2017, 8:34 pm

#242

pentiumvi

Join Date: Mar 2015

Location: YVR

Posts: 1,083

Quote:

Originally Posted by tng11

Did the agent say why the first route was rejected? Due to over MPM?

Edit: Just saw the wiki. HKG-YYZ pair is only supposedly ~11000. So I guess that sort of explains why it was rejected. Surprised that the other 2 options were accepted.

Jul 15, 2017, 5:43 pm

#243

Beltway2A

Join Date: Apr 2017

Location: WAS

Programs: Free Agent

Posts: 1,757

Just had HND-FRA-IAD rejected. Phone agent wouldn't give me the exact MPM, but told me is was about 100 over. Actual mileage is 9912, so I'm estimating ~9800.

Jul 19, 2017, 9:46 am

#244

echino

Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: YVR

Posts: 1,465

I flew YVR-SFO-IST-VKO two years ago. Now it was rejected. GCmap says it is 8,607, they told me it's more than that in their system (something like 8,660), and the quoted MPM was 8,490. Added to wiki.

Jul 24, 2017, 9:35 am

#245

WKnight

Join Date: May 2014

Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by echino

I'm going to assume the loss of MPM5 occurred around the start of this thread, Oct 2014. So, you flew this exact same routing in July 2015, and now it's determined to be invalid? That is not a good sign, as it is in the wrong direction.

Jul 25, 2017, 12:20 am

#246

chocobill

Join Date: Jan 2014

Location: TYO

Programs: AP 75k

Posts: 137

Booked NCE-IST-ORD-YYZ-YYC-YVR (9149 miles). Rep did say it was getting pretty close to the limit.

Aug 9, 2017, 11:31 am

#247

pvtrash

Join Date: Nov 2012

Posts: 25

Hi everyone,

I have a hard time understanding how to calculate MPMs. Anyway, I managed to book a PEK-ICN-LAX-YVR and a ICN-LAX-YVR-YUL (for 2 different person; one starting in PEK and the other in ICN) both of which are above MPM from what the agent on the phone told me. They still issued it and the supervisor putted a note in the file saying that it was a one time exception. Now, I would like to change my ticket on the way to ICN but AE refuses to change it due to the MPM exception they did on the return saying that if they change one segment on the itinerary they will not allow the return anymore. So now I am looking to do PEK-ICN-LAX-YUL and ICN-LAX-YUL will these be above the MPM?

Aug 9, 2017, 11:48 am

#248

echino

Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: YVR

Posts: 1,465

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvtrash

PEK-YVR MPM is 7,426
PEK-ICN-LAX-YVR exceeds MPM

PEK-YUL MPM is 9,130
PEK-ICN-LAX-YUL is within MPM

ICN-YUL MPM is 9,260
ICN-LAX-YVR-YUL exceeds MPM
ICN-LAX-YUL is within MPM

Aug 28, 2017, 11:15 am

#249

briantoronto

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: YTZ

Programs: Hertz & Avis PC; National EE; SPG & Hilton Gold; AC 35K (yawn)

Posts: 5,921

Just quoted today that YTO-HND was 9,088

Nov 8, 2017, 4:56 pm

#250

drvannostren

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: YVR

Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold

Posts: 4,485

I've been using a trick that was posted here (don't remember the thread, so that's why I saved it as a jpg) to find the MPMs on the aeroplan site. I've found some strange info though...here's some MPMs, what I found strange is some of the more remote cities still have lower MPM.

YVR-LED 7911 (this one struck me as REALLY low, the most direct route I can think of with * would be YVR-FRA-LED and that's 6114)

YVR-VIE 9013 (YVR-FRA-VIE is 5412, how does that make sense?)

YVR-KBP 8924

YVR-OTP 9452

YVR-FCO 9557

YVR-SVO 8455

I was under the impression part of what goes into calculating MPM is how many carriers serve it and from where. Like if the ONLY way to get to Vladivostok lets say (just picked a really remote city) is via PEK, then the MPM would be commensurate with that, as opposed to flying via FRA and MOW. But in that line of thinking, I have no idea how Rome is higher than Moscow, despite the fact that I can't think of any logical routing that makes Rome more than 7000? Even just looking at the sticky...why is Moscow (VKO) only 127 miles more than Zurich? That makes no sense, the distance between the two is almost 1400, Moscow is less served and less central than Zurich. I wouldn't necessarily say Moscow should be much higher, but should Zurich be at least 1300 MPM less, closer to 7000 than 8500?

Nov 8, 2017, 5:16 pm

#251

zoqfotpik

Join Date: Nov 2014

Location: Somewhere

Posts: 1,178

Quote:

Originally Posted by drvannostren

I think it's because MPM is relative to distance between two points in a straight line. For example, if you plot YVR-LED and YVR-VIE on gcmaps, you will see that VIE is actually further from LED. MPM is determined accordingly based on distance between two points.

Nov 8, 2017, 5:42 pm

#252

drvannostren

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: YVR

Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold

Posts: 4,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoqfotpik

You're right, I kinda forgot about that. But the difference is only about 600 miles, so it's still odd to me that VIE allows for more than 1000 MPM more.

On that tip, can anyone think of the point in Europe 1 or Europe 2 that would allow for the most MPM? I'm kinda willing to go anywhere, just wanna make the most of my redemption each and every time.

Nov 9, 2017, 12:06 am

#253

Marlin240

Join Date: Jun 2014

Location: Spatially speaking or metaphysically speaking?

Programs: Aeropain: Zirconia Status; Altitude: Marianas Trench Status; UA MP: 1 Kick to the curb status

Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by drvannostren

YVR-ATH is nigh 10K. I got this routing allowed last year:

YVR-SFO-IST-ATH-VIE-PRG-CPH-IST-YUL-YVR.

Nov 9, 2017, 6:28 am

#254

JJonahJ

Join Date: Dec 2011

Location: Canada

Programs: *void

Posts: 2,408

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin240

YVR-ATH is nigh 10K. I got this routing allowed last year:

YVR-SFO-IST-ATH-VIE-PRG-CPH-IST-YUL-YVR.

Good to know, thanks!

Your GCMAP: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=YVR-SFO...PH-IST-YUL-YVR
Outbound: 7,860 mi
Inbound: 9,705 mi

Using the trick, the MPM shows YVR-ATH at 10,097 miles.

@drvannostren, have you considered lovely Azerbaijan? (props to @heraclitus for pointing this out)

Baku is the capital
YVR-GYD is 10,320 miles.

And then there's Ganja, second most mistaken airport behind Sydney (Oz vs NS).

However, its MPM is not as 'high' as GYD's.
YVR-KVD is 10,270 miles.
Makes me want to pull out C&C's "Up in Smoke" from the movies archives.

Last edited by JJonahJ; Nov 9, 2017 at 10:53 pm Reason: Ganja, not Ganga

Nov 9, 2017, 4:54 pm

#255

drvannostren

Join Date: Jul 2008

Location: YVR

Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold

Posts: 4,485

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin240

YVR-ATH is nigh 10K. I got this routing allowed last year:

YVR-SFO-IST-ATH-VIE-PRG-CPH-IST-YUL-YVR.

I did check ATH cuz I found I could fly YVR-PEK-ATH just barely. But then I booked a cash ticket on another cheapo DUB fare I have later in the year

. Just figured out that YVR-PEK-IST would work too, think I've found myself a route!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJonahJ

@drvannostren, have you considered lovely Azerbaijan? (props to @heraclitus for pointing this out)

Baku is the capital
YVR-GYD is 10,320 miles.

And then there's Ganga, second most mistaken airport behind Sydney (Oz vs NS).

However, its MPM is not as 'high' as GYD's.
YVR-KVD is 10,270 miles.

I hadn't! I didn't think Azerbaijan was gonna be in the Europe section. I was originally trying to use some SQ miles and they've got different region definitions, I'll def have a look around. I actually had a mistake fare to GYD that got cancelled on me, might be a nice chance to get that! Never heard of Ganga, but I'm gonna look into it now!

Last edited by drvannostren; Nov 9, 2017 at 5:18 pm