AC 838/839 Winter Changes; Air Canada drops Ottawa-Frankfurt flight for winter
Sep 7, 2014, 7:39 pm
#106
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YEG - No Particular Loyalty Anymore
Posts: 3,610
I suspect the malignant hand in the decision.
Sep 7, 2014, 7:41 pm
#107
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YEG - No Particular Loyalty Anymore
Posts: 3,610
Enjoy the Ontario aviation fuel tax especially every time you fly via the Toronto Mahal.
Moreover, I am more than pleased to pay that amount and now get the airport we deserve and service from airlines other than the two oligopoly ones in Canada. I am particularly pleased that the carpetbaggers who fly in from Ontario in droves are helping to pay for it.
Moreover, I am more than pleased to pay that amount and now get the airport we deserve and service from airlines other than the two oligopoly ones in Canada. I am particularly pleased that the carpetbaggers who fly in from Ontario in droves are helping to pay for it.
Last edited by ProudEdmontonian; Sep 7, 2014 at 7:51 pm
Sep 7, 2014, 9:27 pm
#108
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,717
Not sure why this thread has become an Alberta Versus Ontario; Bot YEG and YOW are loosing because AC wants to drive traffic too the two worst (when it comes to ops) Airports in Canada... (YYC/YYZ for those who are not following)
I meant YMQ...
I meant YMQ...
Sep 7, 2014, 10:16 pm
#109
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
LOL. This again.
When (if) they do upgauge/increase service to YEG, you will look like a genius!
I heard AA wasn't making a number of moves, rather they were going to make a few moves and contemplate doing things and possibly changing up stuff. I've heard they're on the verge of getting close to making a decision about possibly adding or reducing service to a yet to be determined place, possibly
ProudEdmontonian, you're so connected to EIA and the business community there, Guess I missed your insight and prediction that UA (+AC, due to metal neutral JV) would trash YEGEWR b/c it was missing all expectations. Odd
When (if) they do upgauge/increase service to YEG, you will look like a genius!
I heard AA wasn't making a number of moves, rather they were going to make a few moves and contemplate doing things and possibly changing up stuff. I've heard they're on the verge of getting close to making a decision about possibly adding or reducing service to a yet to be determined place, possibly
ProudEdmontonian, you're so connected to EIA and the business community there, Guess I missed your insight and prediction that UA (+AC, due to metal neutral JV) would trash YEGEWR b/c it was missing all expectations. Odd
Sep 7, 2014, 10:38 pm
#110
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Need you ask?
Programs: AA DL LH BA KL AM
Posts: 33
Well they sure can affirm flying the E190 with 43 passengers tomorrow? Yes that's the load... I'm surprised this route still exsists.
Oh, btw I quick look at the EWR-YEG route loads for the next flight shows 89 seats occupied.
One of those things that makes you say hmmm???
Sep 7, 2014, 10:47 pm
#111
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC
Posts: 4,035
AC say's a direct flight to EU isn't profitable in the winter and cancels it, you jump all over them. Yet 100% of airlines have come to the exact same decision; nobody is offering YEG-EU direct service this winter.
AC says that you should connect in YYZ, YVR, YUL or YYC to go to the EU; you say they despise YEG. FI says you should connect in KEF and you praise their name. Same goes for AA, UA and DL, all of which require connections. Obviously, those can't offer direct Canada-EU flights, so perhaps they can't be held to the same standard. But the service they are offering is no better than AC: 1 stop connection overseas.
I guess, my thought comes down to this question:
- Besides AC, do you also boycott all airlines that have the rights and ability to provide direct YEG-EU and choose not to? If not, why?
Sep 7, 2014, 10:54 pm
#112
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Sep 8, 2014, 1:48 am
#113
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Need you ask?
Programs: AA DL LH BA KL AM
Posts: 33
I lived in YYT for 4 years back when it had next to no flights, I completely appreciate the frustration. Flying 3 hours backwards to connect overseas is beyond frustrating. But, what I don't understand the is the attitude.
AC say's a direct flight to EU isn't profitable in the winter and cancels it, you jump all over them. Yet 100% of airlines have come to the exact same decision; nobody is offering YEG-EU direct service this winter.
AC says that you should connect in YYZ, YVR, YUL or YYC to go to the EU; you say they despise YEG. FI says you should connect in KEF and you praise their name. Same goes for AA, UA and DL, all of which require connections. Obviously, those can't offer direct Canada-EU flights, so perhaps they can't be held to the same standard. But the service they are offering is no better than AC: 1 stop connection overseas.
I guess, my thought comes down to this question:
- Besides AC, do you also boycott all airlines that have the rights and ability to provide direct YEG-EU and choose not to? If not, why?
AC say's a direct flight to EU isn't profitable in the winter and cancels it, you jump all over them. Yet 100% of airlines have come to the exact same decision; nobody is offering YEG-EU direct service this winter.
AC says that you should connect in YYZ, YVR, YUL or YYC to go to the EU; you say they despise YEG. FI says you should connect in KEF and you praise their name. Same goes for AA, UA and DL, all of which require connections. Obviously, those can't offer direct Canada-EU flights, so perhaps they can't be held to the same standard. But the service they are offering is no better than AC: 1 stop connection overseas.
I guess, my thought comes down to this question:
- Besides AC, do you also boycott all airlines that have the rights and ability to provide direct YEG-EU and choose not to? If not, why?
Sep 8, 2014, 7:11 am
#114
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
From Oct 24, 2012 Financial Post :
Competition Bureau gives green light to Air Canada, United joint venture
... The Competition Bureau has given the green light to a cross-border joint venture between Air Canada and United Continental Holdings Inc. provided the airlines exclude certain routes from the arrangement.
The bureau said Wednesday it had struck an agreement with the carriers that would “protect and preserve competition” on 14 high-demand routes between Canada and the U.S. that, in part, led the bureau’s initial challenge of the partnership in June 2011 ...
... Air Canada countered the arrangement was pro-competitive because it allowed the airlines to make those routes more viable by reducing excess capacity. Air Canada has a similar arrangement with Deutsche Lufthansa AG and United across the Atlantic, its so-called A++ joint venture. ..
Air Canada has said such ventures are the only way forward for legacy carriers in the face of foreign-ownership restrictions that limit consolidation of airlines across borders.
http://business.financialpost.com/20...-joint-venture/
From G&M Nov 8, 2012 :
Air Canada, United reach deal with Competition Bureau
“Air Canada is pleased this matter has been settled and that an agreement has been reached that preserves our longstanding commercial relationship with our alliance partner, United Airlines, while providing the flexibility to continue building on this relationship for the benefit of both airlines and our customers,” Ben Smith, Air Canada’s executive vice-president and chief commercial officer, said in a separate news release Wednesday.
Now, If Ben Smith comes on and says there is no JV in place with United I will believe it ... Just odd AC claim the need for it, go through all the motions to obtain, get it approved, and then not proceed.
Sep 8, 2014, 7:16 am
#115
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
Not if you know better than to correlate LF with profitability
Sep 8, 2014, 7:27 am
#116
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
Looks like I am wrong.
That one post from Ben contradicts so much time/effort/speak from both airlines on the matter. I don't get it? He posts "not approved by CB" when, it seems it is approved.
But, Ben's "swear under oath" statement is about as clear as it gets.
My mistake. Thanks for posting his quotes on the matter
Last edited by CloudsBelow; Sep 8, 2014 at 7:38 am
Sep 8, 2014, 8:55 am
#117
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
IIRC the Competition Bureau approved the JV but required that certain routes be carved-out. I believe that there was approximately 14-16 transborder routes that needed to be excluded from the JV agreement. I can only guess that in order to be worthwhile it needed to be an "all or none" type of approval, as trying to coordinate schedules, fares, etc. while not being able to coordinate on a bunch of key routes would create all sorts of headaches and potential for costly legal mistakes.
Sep 8, 2014, 9:10 am
#118
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,717
I lived in YYT for 4 years back when it had next to no flights, I completely appreciate the frustration. Flying 3 hours backwards to connect overseas is beyond frustrating. But, what I don't understand the is the attitude.
AC say's a direct flight to EU isn't profitable in the winter and cancels it, you jump all over them. Yet 100% of airlines have come to the exact same decision; nobody is offering YEG-EU direct service this winter.
AC says that you should connect in YYZ, YVR, YUL or YYC to go to the EU; you say they despise YEG. FI says you should connect in KEF and you praise their name. Same goes for AA, UA and DL, all of which require connections. Obviously, those can't offer direct Canada-EU flights, so perhaps they can't be held to the same standard. But the service they are offering is no better than AC: 1 stop connection overseas.
I guess, my thought comes down to this question:
- Besides AC, do you also boycott all airlines that have the rights and ability to provide direct YEG-EU and choose not to? If not, why?
AC say's a direct flight to EU isn't profitable in the winter and cancels it, you jump all over them. Yet 100% of airlines have come to the exact same decision; nobody is offering YEG-EU direct service this winter.
AC says that you should connect in YYZ, YVR, YUL or YYC to go to the EU; you say they despise YEG. FI says you should connect in KEF and you praise their name. Same goes for AA, UA and DL, all of which require connections. Obviously, those can't offer direct Canada-EU flights, so perhaps they can't be held to the same standard. But the service they are offering is no better than AC: 1 stop connection overseas.
I guess, my thought comes down to this question:
- Besides AC, do you also boycott all airlines that have the rights and ability to provide direct YEG-EU and choose not to? If not, why?
And You can defend AC to no end all you like; saying we jump on their backs... what horseradish! Funny how AC launched YTZ-YUL to drive porter out of the market; funny how they haven't abandoned that money loosing venture and put those DH4's on other routes; what say you to that?
Sep 8, 2014, 9:15 am
#119
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan/Hilton Gold/Marriott Bonvoy Titanium/Accor/Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 5,899
While marketing and yield management are not my forte, airlines do not drop routes which meet or exceed revenue and profitability targets.
Sep 8, 2014, 9:24 am
#120
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
It was approved, but as Ben stated in the second quote I referenced... "Not approved as requested..."
IIRC the Competition Bureau approved the JV but required that certain routes be carved-out. I believe that there was approximately 14-16 transborder routes that needed to be excluded from the JV agreement.
IIRC the Competition Bureau approved the JV but required that certain routes be carved-out. I believe that there was approximately 14-16 transborder routes that needed to be excluded from the JV agreement.
“Air Canada is pleased this matter has been settled and that an agreement has been reached that preserves our longstanding commercial relationship with our alliance partner, United Airlines, while providing the flexibility to continue building on this relationship for the benefit of both airlines and our customers,” Ben Smith, Air Canada’s executive vice-president and chief commercial officer, said in a separate news release Wednesday.