Plumber

I tend to agree. I have flown to and through LHR many, many times...I have been lucky enough not to experience one of their meltdowns and things have always moved efficiently there...

Ken- maybe you could post the picture of your cheque from BA again?. lol. ^

Crampedin13A

Same frequency for me as well. I must be very unlucky then. Because of weather I've missed so many short haul connections there. BA cancels the domestic and short haul network because they are the biggest customer when the trouble starts and flights into and out of LHR have to be reduced. I don't even bother with domestic connections any more. I take the train to/from London. Far less stressful.

I also think you would have very little chance of receiving that famous long ago $11K MCO from BA in 2014. There would be alternate less satisfying arrangements offered.

Ben Smith

I wrote the business cases for the original daily 866/865 LHR YMXYOW extension, followed by the daily 888/889 nonstop YOWLHR service, re-introduction of 852/853/898/899 YEGLHR service as well as the 838/839 YOWFRA service. All of these flights are very challenging in the winter and we have put enormous effort into making them sustainable. I can assure you AF/KL are serious competitors ex YOW and have been for decades. We are very committed to both YOW and YEG however these int services are particularly challenging and if the marketplace cannot support the services at a profitable level we will unfortunately have to take action. I have a special personal attachment to all of the above services and take no joy in seeing them not succeed.

ensco

This isn't that complicated. YOW and YEG have very little paid J traffic, for obvious reasons, and without that, the economics of longhaul direct flights do not work.

ProudEdmontonian

Thank goodness EIA finally gave up on that 'commitment' and found carriers that actually provide YEG with service.

ensco

This seems unfair.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/united-air...234406639.html

RatherBeInYOW

As someone in high tech (and who happens to be flying YOWFRA today in fact ... on a plane that looks to be pretty full) I'm not sure how you can call AF/KL serious competitors for people spending money on travel. You might fight the budget crowd, but in the last 10 years I've flown AF/KL twice as compared to dozens and dozens of times on AC YOWFRA, and every person I know flying for business out of YOW is in the same boat.

If you say the route is marginal in the winter I have no way to refute this, other than anecdotal evidence of the plane usually being pretty full (except possibly mid-week, when you didn't run the service anyway). But you better hope your customers come back in the spring because:

- No way I'm connecting through LHR on 888/889. LHR is fine for o/d but a terrible connection point in to EMEA.

- Now that I am forced to connect, I'll start looking at options instead of just funneling my travel through FRA on AC.

You might want to funnel everything through YYZ, but unless I can get a direct connection from there (TLV, etc.) it looks like it is time to consider other options than AC for EMEA travel.

ProudEdmontonian

"Might?"

Pity the rubes outside of YYZ don't appreciate this grand strategy.

ProudEdmontonian

Not pleased that this is happening but it was better than year after year after year after year after year after year hearing about the "commitment."

Besides, AA is making a number of moves.

jcamp028

I disagree in the case of YOW. Federal Government travel policies certainly favour J in the case of any TATL/TPAC flying (from admin. clerk all the way to head honcho). The big variable is that government travel is way down in general.

CloudsBelow

Comical to read basement all-stars daring to engage a guy who's front-and-centre to all the action, armed with actual data

CloudsBelow

LOL. This again.
When (if) they do upgauge/increase service to YEG, you will look like a genius!
I heard AA wasn't making a number of moves, rather they were going to make a few moves and contemplate doing things and possibly changing up stuff. I've heard they're on the verge of getting close to making a decision about possibly adding or reducing service to a yet to be determined place, possibly

ProudEdmontonian, you're so connected to EIA and the business community there, Guess I missed your insight and prediction that UA (+AC, due to metal neutral JV) would trash YEGEWR b/c it was missing all expectations. Odd

ain't got time to take a fast train

"basement all-stars"? Some of these posters, myself included, are based in YOW and fly AC838/839. (I was on 839 on 29AUG on a C fare). Our views and info aren't frivolous, however incomplete the picture may be.

For the record, I'm not aware of any colleagues, family or acquaintances using the AF/KL bus to YUL. Doesn't mean the service isn't well-subscribed by VBITs, etc., but by a meaningful percentage of public servants or high tech types on business? Unlikely.

winnipegrev

Even if you/other posters fly 838 once a month, that is 3% of all 838 flights you could see the load factor on. And yields are what matters, not LF. I think clouds' point was it is pointless to argue viability of a route with Air Canada's COO/President of Passenger Airlines. Probably the best person in the airline to know these things.

hearna

And out of curiosity Ben (and with all due respect) does this business case take into consideration the costs with IRROPS when things inevitably go wrong at YYZ? Does this include the cost of lost business to other carriers who, if they do not have access to a non stop and are forced to connect, will connect on another airline?

Why was the service not reduced? Why not try out a one stop YOW-YMX-FRA?

Is the flood of 67's over to rouge really making things that much more profitable?