WineCountryUA

Topic / Conduct Reminder

This is the UA Forum and this thread is about why some are "happy", "OK", "satisfied" with UA -- contrary to other threads where people have expressed unhappiness.

While of peripheral concern and for comparison purposes, this is not a thread for debating the other programs.

And as usual, personal comments are out of bounds.

Point for all to think about -- Everyone must accept that we seek / value different things. We will not be of one mind. While constructive to raise different points of views, this is not a court of law -- there will not / does not need to be a victor. There times to agree to disagree. Those on a mission to prove others wrong and have them beaten into submission to accept your point of view perhaps should consider other venues.

Let's keep this informative and useful -- not a battle.

And a happy holidays to all

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator

zcat18

Bingo.

Having never really had the elite experience with the old UA, I am blissfully ignorant of what I'm missing. Although I've been flying since I was six months old--and am now in my 30s--I really only started chasing status, miles, sitting in premium cabins, etc. two years ago. Prior to that, I was very much a kayaker who booked the lowest published coach fare to wherever I needed to go.

Any negative perception of United I've developed has been largely because of reading about "how things used to be" on message boards and in the media. While I realize that I missed some glory--primarily better service, more upgrades, a greater feeling of being valued by the airline--I also really can't complain much about my experience with United when I take what I've heard second and third hand about the good ol' days out of the equation.

My GPUs clear 95% of the time, even on high traffic routes. CPUs are rare, but I appreciate them when they happen. I haven't been what I would call severely delayed in the 2-3 years that I've been traveling heavily on UA, and I can count on one hand the number of delays I've experienced greater than, say, 20-60 minutes. With Premier/1K baggage drop (when necessary) and TSA Precheck, I'm door-to-gate at Fortress ORD in 10-15 minutes. As a 1K, IRROPS have been handled seamlessly. The Star Alliance network (and the ability to book saver awards on great partners like ANA, TG, LH, etc., even after devaluation) is fantastic. I've seen a vast improvement in customer service over the course of the past couple of years. Perhaps this is due to steadily increasing status, but in 2011-2012, I almost always spoke to India or the Philippines and most often worked with "agents" who refused to go off script to any degree. Even this simplest issue required 2-4 phone calls to resolve, and often was never resolved. As a 1K and starting even when I was still climbing the ladder, I now always talk to a U.S.-based agent who, more often than not, is able to assist and complete the task at hand. Most importantly, United gets me where I want to be when I need to be there, usually in some semblance of comfort, whether it's an E+ seat or up front.

There are elements of the United experience I don't like, and I did consider (and to some degree still haven't ruled out) jumping to AA just based on what some of my AA frequent flyer friends and other FT'ers say, but if we're talking about what satisfies us about United, then I have to say that my experience in a vacuum with UA has been pretty darn good. I also acknowledge that this may be because I never experienced things how they used to be.

halls120

What you are missing is that pre-merger, the 1K agents were IME always able to complete the task at hand. Yes, as a 1K I still have it better than a non-status customer, but the service is still not what it used to be - on the phone, at the airport (too many contractors and not enough CSRs) and in the air (crappy food and drink, inconsistent service levels, too many MX delays.)

Yes, things were better in 2014 than in 2012 or 2013, but given the track record of current management, UA is never going to strive to be better than it currently is, and that's simply a shame.

The one thing I'm grateful for when flying UA is the dedication of the vast majority of front line employees who get us to our destinations safely and in as much comfort as they are allowed to dispense.

LaserSailor

That's impressively perceptive zcat.

Biz travel collapsed in 2009 and the airlines treated anyone left travelling like gold. There is a lot of pining for those days and inability to grasp that those days are gone.. Gone..... Gone.

weero

We have to agree to disagree here - GPUs long stopped working in my view. You can fly E+ to these destinations, buy up to some higher fares, and pray that no GM is willing to pay for TODs.

johnden

Personally I'm happy with both GPUs and cheap buy-ups(as long as elites get them too, which I usually do on a BF flight).

I only get 6-8 GPUs a year. Those I use for flights with schedule flexibility and/or advance purchase. There is R available to almost all destinations if you have flexible routes and destinations. Picking non-peak flights, changing flights close in (well worth $300 to get R), or SDC will usually guarantee a GPU.

Sometimes I'll book IAD-DXB-DEL with a TA and use a GPU for IAD-DXB, etc. Most of the time I don't have to do that.

The problem with GPUs only arises if:

1) You think the difference from cheap economy to W is too expensive (compared to a benefit of thousands of dollars in free upgrade dollars).

If you are purchasing tickets in N/K/G, you are buying far enough in advance to find R, so I never understood this. Basically you expect UA to give you $4-6000 USD in freebies for the kayak fare.


2) You need to fly a specific peak day/time for business, but your company will not pay for J.

In this case hope for a cheaper buyup, or convince your boss your time is worth more.


3) You make a last minute change or IRROP and lose your upgrade.

I've been there. Spent 14 hours in a middle E- seat with a very large sized couple that booked aisle/window, refused to sit together, and spent most of the flight talking over me or passing snacks back and forth. Thankfully they kept the cabin very cool and I had a lot of sleep aids.


4) You are not willing to pay for a cheap buyup on some routes where UA discounts it.

If I see a <$500 buyup, I'll take it. If not someone else will at check in. Save the GPU for later or for a friend, etc. Of course you need to do enough flying to use the GPU later, etc.

Always Flyin

A longer historical view of treatment of elites would lead to a different outlook. I was a 1K since 1989 (long before international upgrade certificates for 1Ks commenced). There were 1K rooms with dedicated agents. 1Ks were top of the heap and were treated like it.

During the era you reference, UA began artificial bonuses to promote people to 1K who had flown far less than 100,000 miles per year (as I recall, in one year, you could make 1K having flown only about 40,000 miles).

So the lofty treatment afforded 1Ks began far before the business slowdown in late 2000s.

All that has happened is that UA feels it can diminish the benefits now because travel demands are high, it has reduced the number of seats and there is less competition.

And there is a segment of the current 1K population who apparently think that is OK, which is exactly what UA wants.

But don't think this is just UA correcting artificially high benefits instituted during a period of time when travel demands were low.

UA-NYC

Doesn't have to be that long of a view even...I was 2P in '06, 1P in '07-08, and 1K '09 onward...I've seen the changes even since then.

The biggest thing is that 1Ks were treated well alongside the GS...now 1Ks are treated as a segment to keep hammering away at (negatively) benefit-wise.

zcat18

I can't speak for others, but personally, while I don't like diminishing benefits, I do understand the business model. That said, it's tales like yours of a bygone era--the dedicated clubs and customer service staff, etc.--that do make today's experience seem to pale in comparison. Then again, AA doesn't even offer those perks, so perhaps their disappearance has at least as much to do with the travel world we live in as it does the individual airline we choose to fly. Now, if they ever took away, say, UC access for 1Ks/*G on international routes, then I might be angry, but chances are they would simply be reacting to policy changes at other carriers (probably a bad example since I think club access policy is set by Star Alliance, right?). Short story is that I'm not sure accepting the current state of things is as terrible for the consumer as some fear, because no carrier offers elites the experience that was available in the glory days.

I don't want to dwell on the negative in a thread about the positive, but I will say that the keeping up with the Joneses when it comes to PQD minimums is quite irritating. Implementing PQD in the first place may have been a way to cull the 1Ks who were doing 40- or 50k BIS miles and still qualifying, but since they are not adding benefits or improving the on-board product, it seems superfluous to raise PQD requirements. $10k keeps folks honest. Raising the bar without improving some element of the program only generated ill will and eye rolling.

PushingTin

The issue I have is that they raised it from $10k to $12.5K. That pretty much is an indicator that they think fares should go up 25%.... But that all gets back to UA hating 1Ks because they 'we' are cheap-o-s that buy cheap fares when we should be buying seats up front.

The airline market is in flux. 'Blissful' is a good word to use since what I really think is that the expectations are being re-adjusted at a fast clip. If UA could fly DC-3s and serve K-rations, they would- and charge for supplemental oxygen. The issue is that UA is trying to be two airlines. One is basically a private jet for GS level people and the other half is a ULCC. Infrequent fliers are fine with ULCC service- they take a few flights a year. GSers want the perks and service and are willing to pay (or can get someone else to pay). The Gold-1K travelers are the ones that are going to get squeezed- ie, lower levels of benes. I just wish that UA would better communicate the benefits. If you view 1K benefits like most people do Social Security benefits- you really don't expect them to show up- you'll be blissful (probably not), you won't be disappointed.

I hope an airline can figure out the 'hat trick' of three levels GS, ULCC and non-silicon-valley-money business class.

WineCountryUA

While that was true then, today without those bonus there are too, too many 1Ks and in general all elite levels. Just look at boarding groups, elite security, .... Business travel has changed over the last 10, 20, 30, ... years. The world and business are far more global.

100,000 milers were so rare in the 70s into the 80s they were given plaques. MMers were rare at one time but now most folks who have been road warriors for 10-15 years are at least 1MM with some airline. Folks are gaining these status elites in the first third of their work lives, not the last third.

Elites are not the 1%ers of travelers, they are the "salaryman" of the traveling population.

So as much as I don't like, 1Ks (even at the PQD level) are just not the same as 100,000 milers of 20,30, .. years ago. My guess there are just a many earned GSs today as there were 1Ks 20 years ago. It is a different world and the system has got to change.

LaserSailor

Succinct and accurate analysis.

mre5765

So airlines with JFK as a hub have just 2 nonstops for your destination?

787fan

Only AA is. DL is like 6x and JetBlue is 4-5x I think

zcat18

Yep, exactly. I meant that the problem is raising PQD minimums from $10k to $12K, not the PQD system itself. When I re-read my earlier post, I realized this wasn't clear. Your 20% fare increase theory is interesting, though I'm not sure it will play out that way.

Wine Country UA also has an interesting point regarding changing travel patterns. My late grandfather earned one of those plaques from United in the 70s. I think we've also seen major changes in leisure travel as well. In the 60s, 70s, and 80s, family or couple might spend half their working lives saving for or dreaming about their big trip to Europe, and that trip would be the singular highlight of their travel lives. Things are obviously different now. Taboos about the difficulty and supposed prohibitive cost of travel (some of them greatly exaggerated in the first place) have lifted, and the relative accessibility and affordability of air travel in the past 20+ years has all of us in a brave new world. Those of us who are natives to that world may cope slightly better than others with continued changes.