Am I just ignorantly blissful? I'm happy with UA.
Aug 8, 2015, 8:25 pm
#421
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
Yes, I know most of the benefit are from my GS status. But UA did treat its heavy spender nice. Once I missed my flight from EUROPE to Vancuver for a next day cruise. United got me Air Canada J Ticket to get there timely. And UA's upgrade policy is incredible for GS. Now my family of 5 are on flight fRom US to HKG and all of us get upgraded.
UA is one of few airline did reward its best customers. I flied Air China for over ten years and tried ANA for two years. United network and service overall is best. Now I am also AA EXP but it cannot compare with UA. Whenever UA is available I do not care its price higher or not.
That is the reason I love UA.
UA is one of few airline did reward its best customers. I flied Air China for over ten years and tried ANA for two years. United network and service overall is best. Now I am also AA EXP but it cannot compare with UA. Whenever UA is available I do not care its price higher or not.
That is the reason I love UA.
Aug 8, 2015, 8:50 pm
#422
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston MA
Programs: UA 1K/1.5 million miler, SU Gold, JL Sapphire
Posts: 529
I got sometimes stellar service by United as a 1K. Usually, when something goes above and beyond the call of duty, it is in NRT or SFO. BOS not bad either.
EWR, BOM and DEL probably the worst places for service. When I have problems, these are likely suspects. It is my own experience though, I am sure some hard core sCO will accuse me of being biased against Continental but... Well, so far, it holds true for me.
But these days, I feel that perhaps United is less interested by my business, which is mostly Y (but always W and up). The Y cabin has been made feel much cheaper than before, and I wonder what they will come up with next. Meanwhile, other airlines are creating Y+ cabins I can afford and, albeit without being perfect, really put much more of a joy in traveling again. More elbow space, better food and drinks.
I understand they must take care of the VHVF, but how many are really there, and aren't they neglecting possibly profitable sub segments? Sometimes, I feel they went for the very very top and then everybody is at the very bottom. Not totally of course - there are still privileges in 1K that keeps me going back for United (upgrades, free E+, redeemable miles), but no doubt there is a feeling that my business is considered less important than before.
EWR, BOM and DEL probably the worst places for service. When I have problems, these are likely suspects. It is my own experience though, I am sure some hard core sCO will accuse me of being biased against Continental but... Well, so far, it holds true for me.
But these days, I feel that perhaps United is less interested by my business, which is mostly Y (but always W and up). The Y cabin has been made feel much cheaper than before, and I wonder what they will come up with next. Meanwhile, other airlines are creating Y+ cabins I can afford and, albeit without being perfect, really put much more of a joy in traveling again. More elbow space, better food and drinks.
I understand they must take care of the VHVF, but how many are really there, and aren't they neglecting possibly profitable sub segments? Sometimes, I feel they went for the very very top and then everybody is at the very bottom. Not totally of course - there are still privileges in 1K that keeps me going back for United (upgrades, free E+, redeemable miles), but no doubt there is a feeling that my business is considered less important than before.
Aug 9, 2015, 5:06 am
#423
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
But these days, I feel that perhaps United is less interested by my business, which is mostly Y (but always W and up). The Y cabin has been made feel much cheaper than before, and I wonder what they will come up with next. Meanwhile, other airlines are creating Y+ cabins I can afford and, albeit without being perfect, really put much more of a joy in traveling again. More elbow space, better food and drinks.
I understand they must take care of the VHVF, but how many are really there, and aren't they neglecting possibly profitable sub segments? Sometimes, I feel they went for the very very top and then everybody is at the very bottom. Not totally of course - there are still privileges in 1K that keeps me going back for United (upgrades, free E+, redeemable miles), but no doubt there is a feeling that my business is considered less important than before.
I understand they must take care of the VHVF, but how many are really there, and aren't they neglecting possibly profitable sub segments? Sometimes, I feel they went for the very very top and then everybody is at the very bottom. Not totally of course - there are still privileges in 1K that keeps me going back for United (upgrades, free E+, redeemable miles), but no doubt there is a feeling that my business is considered less important than before.
Aug 9, 2015, 7:08 am
#424
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
OK, I have been fairly critical to UA, mostly the devaluation of Mileage Plus since 2012 merger. In particular, RDM based on spend and stingy award availability in premium cabins are my biggest complaints.
Recently I flew LH and LX for the first time. I was underwhelmed by their biz class product. This surprised me since I often hear people saying LH/LX are much better than UA blah blah.
BOS-FRA LH The plane was 748 and upper deck looks huge. Biz class was half empty so I had a window seat with an empty seat next to me. The seat is OK and I won't say it's any better than UA 744 upper deck. The food was so so (just my personal taste). I was surprised that no amenity kit was given (although the flight was short east bound). I was disappointed to see such small personal video screen. Senator lounge at BOS is slightly better than United Club but not as good as NH or SQ lounges.
FRA-ARN LH OK, the biz class is essentially Y class with an empty middle seat. The pitch looks same as Y class. Come on, at least give us some extra legroom to justify biz class? This is worse than UA domestic F. I will avoid LH intra-European flight more than 3 hours.
PVG-ZRH LX The plane was 340. Nice to have aisle access for most seats, but those odd rows AB seats with only 1 console and little storage space for glass, shoes, anything look miserable. I had 12K, but the seat is not wide and not comfy. sorry. I did appreciate the "massage" feature. Personal video looks ancient with tiny screen, very disappointed. Food was average, and I didn't get my first choice (fish). Amenity kit is junk, worse than UA's.
ZRH Senator lounge is slightly better than Biz Class lounge. But the shower room is the worst I have ever seen. Room is small, facility is minimum standard, and there is no slipper.
ZRH-BOS LX The plane was 330. I did manage to get 4A which has lots of space, and it's in the mini cabin next to F. Again, the seat is not wide and not comfy. Amenity kit is so so and the personal video screen is tiny. The crew was very good.
Overall impression: LH and LX biz class is OK, but not great. I actually prefer sUA 744 upper deck and sCO 777 C seats. To me, the ability to sleep comfortably is the deciding factor. Don't care much about else.
As long as GPU clears for me and UA doesn't institute fare based mileage redemption (a.k.a. half million miles for biz class award to Asia) , I'll stay with UA.
Recently I flew LH and LX for the first time. I was underwhelmed by their biz class product. This surprised me since I often hear people saying LH/LX are much better than UA blah blah.
BOS-FRA LH The plane was 748 and upper deck looks huge. Biz class was half empty so I had a window seat with an empty seat next to me. The seat is OK and I won't say it's any better than UA 744 upper deck. The food was so so (just my personal taste). I was surprised that no amenity kit was given (although the flight was short east bound). I was disappointed to see such small personal video screen. Senator lounge at BOS is slightly better than United Club but not as good as NH or SQ lounges.
FRA-ARN LH OK, the biz class is essentially Y class with an empty middle seat. The pitch looks same as Y class. Come on, at least give us some extra legroom to justify biz class? This is worse than UA domestic F. I will avoid LH intra-European flight more than 3 hours.
PVG-ZRH LX The plane was 340. Nice to have aisle access for most seats, but those odd rows AB seats with only 1 console and little storage space for glass, shoes, anything look miserable. I had 12K, but the seat is not wide and not comfy. sorry. I did appreciate the "massage" feature. Personal video looks ancient with tiny screen, very disappointed. Food was average, and I didn't get my first choice (fish). Amenity kit is junk, worse than UA's.
ZRH Senator lounge is slightly better than Biz Class lounge. But the shower room is the worst I have ever seen. Room is small, facility is minimum standard, and there is no slipper.
ZRH-BOS LX The plane was 330. I did manage to get 4A which has lots of space, and it's in the mini cabin next to F. Again, the seat is not wide and not comfy. Amenity kit is so so and the personal video screen is tiny. The crew was very good.
Overall impression: LH and LX biz class is OK, but not great. I actually prefer sUA 744 upper deck and sCO 777 C seats. To me, the ability to sleep comfortably is the deciding factor. Don't care much about else.
As long as GPU clears for me and UA doesn't institute fare based mileage redemption (a.k.a. half million miles for biz class award to Asia) , I'll stay with UA.
I was completely underwhelmed by the Senator Lounge in ZRH (found the Biz Lounge to be the same if not better, and certainly bigger), though I disagree about the shower. I have had some of the best showers, with great pressure, in ZRH.
Aug 9, 2015, 9:09 am
#425
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hudson, OH
Programs: UA-MM; Hilton Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,350
This is the case on most intra-Europe carriers, and has been the case for decades. Still tend to get a hot foil-covered meal, while the "real" coach flyers are munching on hard candy (no, the meal is not worth it; usually fly in these seats for other reasons).
Aug 9, 2015, 6:14 pm
#426
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
I feel the same way. So far this year - as in years past - my average spend is running 12-14cpm. I've never been one of those MRs who exploit rock bottom fares and attain 1K in that manner, and because UA's current management has chosen to lump me in with those customers, this will be my last year as a 1K, and for the first time ever, more of my business with be with the competition than with UA.
Aug 9, 2015, 10:33 pm
#427
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
CASM Consolidated Operations (cents)
3 months ended June 30
2015: 13.09 (11.9% decrease, fuel?)
2014: 14.91
CASM Mainline Operations (cents)
3 months ended June 30
2015: 12.42 (12.2% decrease, fuel?)
2014: 14.09
So, even in this low fuel price environment, a 12 - 14 cpm passenger is break even.
Airline needs you, but not enough to show you the love of a GS (.40 - .50 cpm) or 'high value' 1K (.20 cpm?)
Aug 10, 2015, 12:07 am
#428
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: LAS ORD
Programs: AA Pro (mostly B6) OZ♦ (flying BR/UA), BA Silver Hyatt LT, Wynn Black, Cosmo Plat, Mlife Noir
Posts: 5,992
So while no one would disagree that UA should probably pay more attention to HVFs than 12-14cpm fliers (although I'm not sure UA has done a good job at that either), I wouldn't be at all surprised if UA's financial underperformance is in part due to spurning previously-loyal customers in the 12-14cpm revenue range.
Aug 10, 2015, 12:18 am
#429
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
OK, I have been fairly critical to UA, mostly the devaluation of Mileage Plus since 2012 merger. In particular, RDM based on spend and stingy award availability in premium cabins are my biggest complaints.
Recently I flew LH and LX for the first time. I was underwhelmed by their biz class product. This surprised me since I often hear people saying LH/LX are much better than UA blah blah.
BOS-FRA LH The plane was 748 and upper deck looks huge. Biz class was half empty so I had a window seat with an empty seat next to me. The seat is OK and I won't say it's any better than UA 744 upper deck. The food was so so (just my personal taste). I was surprised that no amenity kit was given (although the flight was short east bound). I was disappointed to see such small personal video screen. Senator lounge at BOS is slightly better than United Club but not as good as NH or SQ lounges.
FRA-ARN LH OK, the biz class is essentially Y class with an empty middle seat. The pitch looks same as Y class. Come on, at least give us some extra legroom to justify biz class? This is worse than UA domestic F. I will avoid LH intra-European flight more than 3 hours.
PVG-ZRH LX The plane was 340. Nice to have aisle access for most seats, but those odd rows AB seats with only 1 console and little storage space for glass, shoes, anything look miserable. I had 12K, but the seat is not wide and not comfy. sorry. I did appreciate the "massage" feature. Personal video looks ancient with tiny screen, very disappointed. Food was average, and I didn't get my first choice (fish). Amenity kit is junk, worse than UA's.
ZRH Senator lounge is slightly better than Biz Class lounge. But the shower room is the worst I have ever seen. Room is small, facility is minimum standard, and there is no slipper.
ZRH-BOS LX The plane was 330. I did manage to get 4A which has lots of space, and it's in the mini cabin next to F. Again, the seat is not wide and not comfy. Amenity kit is so so and the personal video screen is tiny. The crew was very good.
Overall impression: LH and LX biz class is OK, but not great. I actually prefer sUA 744 upper deck and sCO 777 C seats. To me, the ability to sleep comfortably is the deciding factor. Don't care much about else.
As long as GPU clears for me and UA doesn't institute fare based mileage redemption (a.k.a. half million miles for biz class award to Asia) , I'll stay with UA.
Recently I flew LH and LX for the first time. I was underwhelmed by their biz class product. This surprised me since I often hear people saying LH/LX are much better than UA blah blah.
BOS-FRA LH The plane was 748 and upper deck looks huge. Biz class was half empty so I had a window seat with an empty seat next to me. The seat is OK and I won't say it's any better than UA 744 upper deck. The food was so so (just my personal taste). I was surprised that no amenity kit was given (although the flight was short east bound). I was disappointed to see such small personal video screen. Senator lounge at BOS is slightly better than United Club but not as good as NH or SQ lounges.
FRA-ARN LH OK, the biz class is essentially Y class with an empty middle seat. The pitch looks same as Y class. Come on, at least give us some extra legroom to justify biz class? This is worse than UA domestic F. I will avoid LH intra-European flight more than 3 hours.
PVG-ZRH LX The plane was 340. Nice to have aisle access for most seats, but those odd rows AB seats with only 1 console and little storage space for glass, shoes, anything look miserable. I had 12K, but the seat is not wide and not comfy. sorry. I did appreciate the "massage" feature. Personal video looks ancient with tiny screen, very disappointed. Food was average, and I didn't get my first choice (fish). Amenity kit is junk, worse than UA's.
ZRH Senator lounge is slightly better than Biz Class lounge. But the shower room is the worst I have ever seen. Room is small, facility is minimum standard, and there is no slipper.
ZRH-BOS LX The plane was 330. I did manage to get 4A which has lots of space, and it's in the mini cabin next to F. Again, the seat is not wide and not comfy. Amenity kit is so so and the personal video screen is tiny. The crew was very good.
Overall impression: LH and LX biz class is OK, but not great. I actually prefer sUA 744 upper deck and sCO 777 C seats. To me, the ability to sleep comfortably is the deciding factor. Don't care much about else.
As long as GPU clears for me and UA doesn't institute fare based mileage redemption (a.k.a. half million miles for biz class award to Asia) , I'll stay with UA.
Aug 10, 2015, 6:02 am
#430
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston MA
Programs: UA 1K/1.5 million miler, SU Gold, JL Sapphire
Posts: 529
I always pay W and up (so not el cheapo fares), and I get still 13 cpm to Asia.
I doubt there would be a market to fill all seats at more than 17.9cpm, because we still are talking about $1600-$2000 RT from the East Coast.
Aug 10, 2015, 6:33 am
#431
Join Date: May 2004
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1k, US ex-CP, NW silver, Marriott plat, SPG gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 421
Does the CASM figure include freight revenue? I would imagine there are quite a flew routes out there with the freight 'pays the freight' on the flight. Also I imagine the model on most flights is to break even on the vast majority of passengers and make the money on the premium cabin so I don't think UA (or anyone) is really worried about getting much profit out of the Y cabin....asides from all the fees!
Aug 10, 2015, 6:48 am
#432
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London & Sonoma CA
Programs: UA 1K, MM *G for life, BAEC Gold
Posts: 10,227
If that is true, then long-haul flights are in big trouble.
I always pay W and up (so not el cheapo fares), and I get still 13 cpm to Asia.
I doubt there would be a market to fill all seats at more than 17.9cpm, because we still are talking about $1600-$2000 RT from the East Coast.
I always pay W and up (so not el cheapo fares), and I get still 13 cpm to Asia.
I doubt there would be a market to fill all seats at more than 17.9cpm, because we still are talking about $1600-$2000 RT from the East Coast.
Aug 10, 2015, 6:52 am
#433
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston MA
Programs: UA 1K/1.5 million miler, SU Gold, JL Sapphire
Posts: 529
So, a simple fixation on revenue per mile per person is a bit short-sighted. I don't think my business is not profitable to United. If it is, then maybe 75% or even 80% of the plane isn't profitable to fly...
Aug 10, 2015, 6:54 am
#434
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: BOS, PVG
Programs: United 1K and 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 10,000
This is absolutely correct. During take-off aircraft engines usually burn twice more fuel than during cruise flight.
Aug 10, 2015, 6:59 am
#435
Senior Moderator; Moderator, Eco-Conscious Travel, United and Flyertalk Cares
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Fulltime travel/mostly Europe
Programs: UA 1.7 MM;; Accor & Marriott Pt; Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 17,832
Moderator note: We're getting off topic here. This thread is titled "Am I ignorantly blissful? I'm Happy with United." Let's keep on-topic.
Thanks,
l'etoile
UA moderator
Thanks,
l'etoile
UA moderator