Jun 4, 2014, 7:33 am
Last edit by: mkr
UAL
earnings released: Thursday, July 24,2014 9:30 am CST/10:30 EST
If you missed the live webcast of the 2nd Q earnings conference call, it is now available for replay for a limited time and will later be archived.
A transcript is now available also.
Click this link for access to replay and transcript of call:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23227909-post151.html
Current 2Q 2014 UAL guidance (4/24/14 investor update):
PRASM +1-3%
ASM "quarter, flat to +1%, full year +.5 to 1.5%"
CASM ex fuel, "quarter +1.25 to 2.25%, full year +1-2%"
Analyst guidance/actual 2Q 2013 results:
6/5/14 estimates:
1.86/share (using the 367M shares from last release $682M profit ex special items) [2q 2013 actual was $521M; $1.35/share ex specials; $469M GAAP]
Revenue 10.33B (3.3% growth) [2q 2013 was $10B]
Actual results:
- $789m GAAP Net income, $2.34/share. 7.6% margin
- $919m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.9% margin
- $906m Operating Income (8.8% margin)
- $1.08B Operating Income excluding specials (10.4% margin)
- PRASM up 3.7%, yield up 3.0%; domestic yield +6.8%
- ASM -0.1%
- CASM-Ex fuel, profit sharing and special items down 0.2%
- Operating Revenue: $10.33B (up 3.3%); Passenger Revenue $8.98B( up3.6%)
- $1.5B in operating cash flow
Links to UA Press Releases / News Articles / etc.:
DAL
earnings released: Wednesday July 23 at 10 edt. Call link: https://event.on24.com/eventRegistra...epage=register
Actual results:
- $801m GAAP Net income, $0.94/diluted share. 7.5% margin
- $889m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.4% margin
Delta's pre-tax income, ex special items was $1.4 billion.
- $1.58B Operating Income (14.9% margin)
- $1.61B Operating Income excluding specials (15.1% margin)
- PRASM up 5.7%, yield up 3.8%; domestic yield +7.4%
- ASM +3.2%
- CASM-Ex fuel, profit sharing and special items was FLAT
- Operating Revenue: $10.62B (up 9%); Passenger Revenue $9.27B ( up9%)
- Over $2.0B in operating cash flow and $1.5B in free cash, net debt $7.9B
3Q projections: Operating margin +15 to +17%, CASM +0 to 2%, "unit revenues" (I take to be PRASM - spin) +2-4% "driven by continued corporate and domestic strength, along with benefits from our revenue initiatives."
Links to DL Press Releases / News Articles / etc.:
http://news.delta.com/2014-07-23-Del...Quarter-Profit
AAL - earnings call: July 24, 2014 at 12:30 cdt
link to call: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....estorrelations
Estimates/AAL guidance:
2Q PRASM +5-7% (updated estimate from 6/9/14 traffic release). YTD ASM +2.5%.
Actual results:
- $864m GAAP Net income
- $1.5B Net Income (excluding specials)
- $11.4B Revenue (+10.2%)
- Yeld +6.5% (17.34)
- PRASM up 5.9%, (14.57)
- ASM +3.1%
- CASM +3.9% (13.61)
earnings released: Thursday, July 24,2014 9:30 am CST/10:30 EST
If you missed the live webcast of the 2nd Q earnings conference call, it is now available for replay for a limited time and will later be archived.
A transcript is now available also.
Click this link for access to replay and transcript of call:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23227909-post151.html
Current 2Q 2014 UAL guidance (4/24/14 investor update):
PRASM +1-3%
ASM "quarter, flat to +1%, full year +.5 to 1.5%"
CASM ex fuel, "quarter +1.25 to 2.25%, full year +1-2%"
Analyst guidance/actual 2Q 2013 results:
6/5/14 estimates:
1.86/share (using the 367M shares from last release $682M profit ex special items) [2q 2013 actual was $521M; $1.35/share ex specials; $469M GAAP]
Revenue 10.33B (3.3% growth) [2q 2013 was $10B]
Actual results:
- $789m GAAP Net income, $2.34/share. 7.6% margin
- $919m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.9% margin
- $906m Operating Income (8.8% margin)
- $1.08B Operating Income excluding specials (10.4% margin)
- PRASM up 3.7%, yield up 3.0%; domestic yield +6.8%
- ASM -0.1%
- CASM-Ex fuel, profit sharing and special items down 0.2%
- Operating Revenue: $10.33B (up 3.3%); Passenger Revenue $8.98B( up3.6%)
- $1.5B in operating cash flow
Links to UA Press Releases / News Articles / etc.:
UA Deutsche Bank Presentation PDF
WSJ Article: United Continental: One Sick Bird - related FT thread on WSJ's One Sick Bird article.
May 2014 UA Traffic Reporting Discussion Thread
Q1 2014 Investor Conference Call FT Discussion Thread
United Continental Is Underestimating the Threat From Delta Air Lines @ The Motley Fool - related FT Discussion Thread
United Should Close Dulles Hub, Analyst Says, as He Cuts Rating - FT Discussion Thread
WSJ Article: United Continental: One Sick Bird - related FT thread on WSJ's One Sick Bird article.
May 2014 UA Traffic Reporting Discussion Thread
Q1 2014 Investor Conference Call FT Discussion Thread
United Continental Is Underestimating the Threat From Delta Air Lines @ The Motley Fool - related FT Discussion Thread
United Should Close Dulles Hub, Analyst Says, as He Cuts Rating - FT Discussion Thread
DAL
earnings released: Wednesday July 23 at 10 edt. Call link: https://event.on24.com/eventRegistra...epage=register
Actual results:
- $801m GAAP Net income, $0.94/diluted share. 7.5% margin
- $889m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.4% margin
Delta's pre-tax income, ex special items was $1.4 billion.
- $1.58B Operating Income (14.9% margin)
- $1.61B Operating Income excluding specials (15.1% margin)
- PRASM up 5.7%, yield up 3.8%; domestic yield +7.4%
- ASM +3.2%
- CASM-Ex fuel, profit sharing and special items was FLAT
- Operating Revenue: $10.62B (up 9%); Passenger Revenue $9.27B ( up9%)
- Over $2.0B in operating cash flow and $1.5B in free cash, net debt $7.9B
3Q projections: Operating margin +15 to +17%, CASM +0 to 2%, "unit revenues" (I take to be PRASM - spin) +2-4% "driven by continued corporate and domestic strength, along with benefits from our revenue initiatives."
Links to DL Press Releases / News Articles / etc.:
http://news.delta.com/2014-07-23-Del...Quarter-Profit
AAL - earnings call: July 24, 2014 at 12:30 cdt
link to call: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....estorrelations
Estimates/AAL guidance:
2Q PRASM +5-7% (updated estimate from 6/9/14 traffic release). YTD ASM +2.5%.
Actual results:
- $864m GAAP Net income
- $1.5B Net Income (excluding specials)
- $11.4B Revenue (+10.2%)
- Yeld +6.5% (17.34)
- PRASM up 5.9%, (14.57)
- ASM +3.1%
- CASM +3.9% (13.61)
UAL 2Q 2014 Results/Discussion/News → Results Announced July 24th, 2014 ←
Jul 24, 2014, 6:41 pm
#316
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
The transcript is up.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2339...all-transcript
46% of domestic / short haul Latam premium seats were sold to paying customers in 2Q.
That compares to 47% for Delta, so they have caught up there in terms of volume.
NOTE THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE PAID UPGRADES
He references that separately, noting they are up 28% yoy.
They also admit that customers will book away from a 50 seat RJ when put against a mainline on a competitor.
They're also building a rebooking tool that better factors the complexity that 7 hubs introduces. Basically saying the 1Q weather will happen again, so they are doing a deep dive.
50 seaters or less about cut in half by end of next year.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2339...all-transcript
46% of domestic / short haul Latam premium seats were sold to paying customers in 2Q.
That compares to 47% for Delta, so they have caught up there in terms of volume.
NOTE THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE PAID UPGRADES
He references that separately, noting they are up 28% yoy.
They also admit that customers will book away from a 50 seat RJ when put against a mainline on a competitor.
They're also building a rebooking tool that better factors the complexity that 7 hubs introduces. Basically saying the 1Q weather will happen again, so they are doing a deep dive.
50 seaters or less about cut in half by end of next year.
Jul 24, 2014, 6:53 pm
#317
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,605
It took them this long to realize they were running a more complex airline than before the merger?
Jul 24, 2014, 7:20 pm
#318
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
This is one of the most remarkable conference calls in my recent memory. AS reports record profits and announces 10% increase in capacity, yet the tone of the conference was so grave, you think that it was the Siege of Constantinople (or Vienna, I guess depending on what you think the outcome will be). The fact that ALK stock fell almost 10% today says a lot about what the market thinks of the Battle of Seattle. Although DL will probably take a bigger beating in the short term, they can absorb the losses with their deeper network. AS cannot. SEA is their Constantinople (or Vienna).
Jul 24, 2014, 7:22 pm
#319
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CLE
Programs: CO Gold - 1MM, IC Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,644
The transcript is up.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2339...all-transcript
They also admit that customers will book away from a 50 seat RJ when put against a mainline on a competitor.
50 seaters or less about cut in half by end of next year.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/2339...all-transcript
They also admit that customers will book away from a 50 seat RJ when put against a mainline on a competitor.
50 seaters or less about cut in half by end of next year.
Jul 24, 2014, 7:29 pm
#322
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
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Posts: 21,172
As the great Joe B (I think) guote goes, more or less, "They think they're running a great airline, it's just that the customers are too stupid to realize it".
Jul 24, 2014, 7:32 pm
#323
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX
Programs: UA MM | BA Silver
Posts: 7,193
The lack of WB frames is part of the equation, but there is more to the story. CO had a lot of 757s that were less competitive from a CASM standpoint in the domestic system than the 737-800, 737-900 and 757-300. They also had the capability to fly longer legs to Europe generating better revenue, and in the mid-2000s CO was very aggressively redeploying domestic capacity to international, especially TATL. Most of that expansion was driven by the 757 and it also allowed CO to deploy larger assets like 777s to open China, India and TLV. It was a fruitful strategy for CO, but operations to airports like TXL, OSL and BCN are at the far end of the envelope.
Jul 24, 2014, 8:15 pm
#325
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just outside Big D, or many other places in big metal tubes
Programs: WN Rpd.Rwrds, AA, was longtime CO very top Elite tier, Overentitled UA Lifetime 1K (since 2012)
Posts: 1,334
I read the USA Today story reporting on 2nd Q earnings of several airlines.
It is understandable that UA states that it plans a 1B buyback of stock over the next three years. (If and to what extent, it will do this at varied times when the stock price is discounted.) This is a bone the UA board is throwing to the shareholders to keep them happy.
But Southwest has different approach. It had a record quarter of earnings. As a "thank you", it is giving each employee a $200 bonus. That may not seem like much, but it is very obvious to anyone who flies Southwest that its employees are very cohesive, enthusiastic, motivated workers. It really shows in customer service, which further motivates flyers to keep flying.
Contrast with UA with the reported bickering, poorer customer service, less-motivated employees, jobs outsourced, etc.
UA may have reported 2nd Q earnings, but at what cost? How much more could UA earnings grow with happy and motivated employees dealing in positive ways with customers?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ican/13060163/
It is understandable that UA states that it plans a 1B buyback of stock over the next three years. (If and to what extent, it will do this at varied times when the stock price is discounted.) This is a bone the UA board is throwing to the shareholders to keep them happy.
But Southwest has different approach. It had a record quarter of earnings. As a "thank you", it is giving each employee a $200 bonus. That may not seem like much, but it is very obvious to anyone who flies Southwest that its employees are very cohesive, enthusiastic, motivated workers. It really shows in customer service, which further motivates flyers to keep flying.
Contrast with UA with the reported bickering, poorer customer service, less-motivated employees, jobs outsourced, etc.
UA may have reported 2nd Q earnings, but at what cost? How much more could UA earnings grow with happy and motivated employees dealing in positive ways with customers?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ican/13060163/
Last edited by mkr; Jul 24, 2014 at 8:17 pm Reason: add USA Today link
Jul 24, 2014, 8:25 pm
#326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
I read the USA Today story reporting on 2nd Q earnings of several airlines.
It is understandable that UA states that it plans a 1B buyback of stock over the next three years. (If and to what extent, it will do this at varied times when the stock price is discounted.) This is a bone the UA board is throwing to the shareholders to keep them happy.
But Southwest has different approach. It had a record quarter of earnings. As a "thank you", it is giving each employee a $200 bonus. That may not seem like much, but it is very obvious to anyone who flies Southwest that its employees are very cohesive, enthusiastic, motivated workers. It really shows in customer service, which further motivates flyers to keep flying.
Contrast with UA with the reported bickering, poorer customer service, less-motivated employees, jobs outsourced, etc.
UA may have reported 2nd Q earnings, but at what cost? How much more could UA earnings grow with happy and motivated employees dealing in positive ways with customers?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ican/13060163/
It is understandable that UA states that it plans a 1B buyback of stock over the next three years. (If and to what extent, it will do this at varied times when the stock price is discounted.) This is a bone the UA board is throwing to the shareholders to keep them happy.
But Southwest has different approach. It had a record quarter of earnings. As a "thank you", it is giving each employee a $200 bonus. That may not seem like much, but it is very obvious to anyone who flies Southwest that its employees are very cohesive, enthusiastic, motivated workers. It really shows in customer service, which further motivates flyers to keep flying.
Contrast with UA with the reported bickering, poorer customer service, less-motivated employees, jobs outsourced, etc.
UA may have reported 2nd Q earnings, but at what cost? How much more could UA earnings grow with happy and motivated employees dealing in positive ways with customers?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ican/13060163/
UA has profit sharing too. I can't find it at the moment, but I'm sure someone has handy the picture of Jeff on a cart in O'Hare with body guards carrying around money bags filled with $100 bills with Jeff's picture on them. I think they also handed out Payday candy bars.
That said, culturally, WN and UA are miles apart. UA may say they want a cohesive culture, but then they pin employee groups against each other and antagonize them in other ways (e.g., anti-union propaganda in break rooms and on logins before a vote, RJ flying between hubs before they got it worked out; forced relocations for the FAs, etc.).
This practice of antagonizing employees even dates back to the CO days -- there was one year where workgroups were working out concessions, and they announced that they will only give profit-sharing to those who had worked out a new agreement. The FA agreement did not happen in time, and they did not give profit sharing to FAs. We can debate whether or not that was fair, but they still antagonized a subset of employees.
So while UA goes through similar motions for profit sharing, their actions don't align with that once-every-so-often give-away.
Jul 24, 2014, 8:46 pm
#327
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UA, Starwood, Priority Club, Hertz, Starbucks Gold Card
Posts: 3,952
UA has paid profit sharing several years straight now. It's based on yearly profits and paid out in 1Q. This year, the checks were sent Feb. 14, totaling $190M -- not a big number (compared to, say, WN's $228M), but UA didn't have too good a year in 2013.
Yes, WN also gave out $200 to each employee this week, based on 2Q results. But they are the only airline that I know of that has done it. Good for WN, but blaming UA for not doing the same is really grasping at straws in light of some good news for a change.
Yes, WN also gave out $200 to each employee this week, based on 2Q results. But they are the only airline that I know of that has done it. Good for WN, but blaming UA for not doing the same is really grasping at straws in light of some good news for a change.
Jul 24, 2014, 9:06 pm
#328
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Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
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Yes, WN also gave out $200 to each employee this week, based on 2Q results. But they are the only airline that I know of that has done it. Good for WN, but blaming UA for not doing the same is really grasping at straws in light of some good news for a change.
Jul 24, 2014, 9:08 pm
#329
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This may just be me, but a bonus like that wouldn't go far. In my old job, my bonus was $500 for two months of working 60-80 hrs a week. The $500 pretax felt like a kick in the balls more than a bonus. It's like, gee thanks, we're worth $375 after tax to you guys (assuming 35% tax rate). Big whoop. I'd rather get nothing and be ignorant to the fact that the company didn't give an F. Major part of the reason I quit.
Jul 24, 2014, 9:10 pm
#330
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
But Southwest has different approach. It had a record quarter of earnings. As a "thank you", it is giving each employee a $200 bonus. That may not seem like much, but it is very obvious to anyone who flies Southwest that its employees are very cohesive, enthusiastic, motivated workers. It really shows in customer service, which further motivates flyers to keep flying.
You've not read about the problems with baggage handlers doing massive sick leave calls - causing cancellations?
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ere-sick.html/
http://www.news10.net/story/news/201...talks/7244545/
Or this:
"Put simply: Southwest now treats passengers like the lowest common denominator. It lectures, nags, and harasses them. It treats them like children. Southwest’s passion for allowing employees to be themselves has sparked an outbreak of unfunny, unhappy, and unhelpful flight attendants and processes that threaten to turn the airline that democratized air travel into a dictatorship."
http://www.austindaily.org/post/2506...with-southwest