Does FT "attitude" drive newbies to blogs?
#46
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Moreover, your characterization of posters has absolutely no basis in reality. Almost never do I see posters acting like this. I would be more than happy to randomly select a dozen forums on Flyertalk, and challenge you to find me one poster who prefaces a request for help the way you presented it. It simply does not happen, outside of the very rare instance.
Are all newbies the same? No, of course not. There are newbies and there are newbies. Some came to FT waiting for spoon-fed info and/or handout; some came well-traveled; while some became quick learners and contributing members.
Are all FTers the same? Of course not. There are FTers and there are FTers. Some are quick tempered while some are gentle souls that always take time answering the same newbies questions over and over.
One thing I am certain. The better questions are asked, the more comprehensive responses are gathered.
What the wise Dov said.
#47
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Moreover, your characterization of posters has absolutely no basis in reality. Almost never do I see posters acting like this. I would be more than happy to randomly select a dozen forums on Flyertalk, and challenge you to find me one poster who prefaces a request for help the way you presented it. It simply does not happen, outside of the very rare instance. Yet, somehow you find it common, and use it to justify the lack of civility on the boards.
The really unfortunate part of all of this is that the Mileage Run board, along with MileBuzz, and the Credit Card forums are where most new members gravitate. They're looking for airline miles and/or flight deals.
And if the message Flyertalk is sending them is reflective of your post, we all lose.
The really unfortunate part of all of this is that the Mileage Run board, along with MileBuzz, and the Credit Card forums are where most new members gravitate. They're looking for airline miles and/or flight deals.
And if the message Flyertalk is sending them is reflective of your post, we all lose.
And yes, I do frequently see questions as I paraphrased posed in the Trick It thread far more than elsewhere and almost always for the reasons I've given. Understanding what is happening however doesn't mean I condone members responding with incivility as I don't but unfortunetly it's become a trend with FT's increased profile in recent years and the influx of new members, a trend that can be reversed but not overnight and not without the efforts of every member. Discussing how to help improve FT in venues such as this thread I find helpful and is why I visit this forum regularly.
#48
Join Date: May 2009
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Originally Posted by tom911:19144961
A # of people are helpful & welcoming to newbies; some are snarky. Sometimes regulars tell the snarky folk to lighten up on the newbies. After all we were all newbies at one point. Some forums are known for being snarky; others are not. Perhaps it's due to size & # of posts.
Still comes down to moderation. If the moderators see a problem, they deal with it. If you have a complaint about a poster, notify a moderator. If you're not happy there, onto the Community Director. Nothing for the Talk Board to get involved with and I can't see a need for any policy changes.
Mods took action, but as a new member, the damage is done since they've seen the responses. No i'm not saying only "specially titled" members are guilty.of it. But ity sure makes.a worse impression ec when it happens.
If someone has their posts deleted our redacted repeatedly, for such rude.posts, I don't know why their name should continue to.have a title like that.
#49
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Regarding bloggers providing a haven for newbies, this seems hypocritical if bloggers set off a stampede of newbies into a minefield. In the days of the mint deal we had one such newbie rush into ordering a quantity of presidential dollars without the warning that he should have large dollar shipments sent to a secure site. That ended in tragedy for that newbie with a several thousand dollar order. As of today I am aware of at least one newbie building miles with Amazon Payments with a misdirected Amazon Payment of a couple hundred dollars.
It is one thing for a blogger, say mommypoints, to discuss buying goods for miles, but another thing to steer a herd of newbies into purchasing blank negotiable paper that could set them up for significant losses if lost or stolen or cause an account shut down.
It is one thing for a blogger, say mommypoints, to discuss buying goods for miles, but another thing to steer a herd of newbies into purchasing blank negotiable paper that could set them up for significant losses if lost or stolen or cause an account shut down.
#50
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 47
Some thoughts from my short time here:
There is definitely a disdain for people who treat this area as a place to have someone do their work for them. I agree with the post earlier where it was mentioned that you get a better response with a "i tried this but it didnt work so any advice" works a lot better then "mongo need fly for free, make mongo happy".
Regarding the snark: I can definitely see why people would be protective of particular ideas and methodologies. There are presumably a finite number of resources and people should safeguard them accordingly. I've seen it all in my years, 4 years in the Marines and almost 20 years on the internet now ranging from an aol trolling teen to now being employed as what some would call a "white hat". This isnt bad. Not being polite isn't necessarily being mean. At work I still send links to www.lmgtfy.com when my coworkers ask me simple questions I think they should be able to answer. Its not an insult, or maybe it is?
Bloggers: Initially, I used them for basic groundwork. I now use them less, and do my own research and calculations. I may still fall back on them to double check my work, but I try to springboard what they mention and apply it differently. I also still read just to keep up on new offers, etc.
I'm no pro, don't really have the urge to be, but I like to make money stretch, so thats why I check here.
There's little point to actually "drive the newbies off" though, because their still going to lurk. Personally, I'd try to "sandbox" a Q&A board where people can ask the same dozen questions over and over again and whoever is feeling benevolent that day can throw a few bones to them (us?).
There is definitely a disdain for people who treat this area as a place to have someone do their work for them. I agree with the post earlier where it was mentioned that you get a better response with a "i tried this but it didnt work so any advice" works a lot better then "mongo need fly for free, make mongo happy".
Regarding the snark: I can definitely see why people would be protective of particular ideas and methodologies. There are presumably a finite number of resources and people should safeguard them accordingly. I've seen it all in my years, 4 years in the Marines and almost 20 years on the internet now ranging from an aol trolling teen to now being employed as what some would call a "white hat". This isnt bad. Not being polite isn't necessarily being mean. At work I still send links to www.lmgtfy.com when my coworkers ask me simple questions I think they should be able to answer. Its not an insult, or maybe it is?
Bloggers: Initially, I used them for basic groundwork. I now use them less, and do my own research and calculations. I may still fall back on them to double check my work, but I try to springboard what they mention and apply it differently. I also still read just to keep up on new offers, etc.
I'm no pro, don't really have the urge to be, but I like to make money stretch, so thats why I check here.
There's little point to actually "drive the newbies off" though, because their still going to lurk. Personally, I'd try to "sandbox" a Q&A board where people can ask the same dozen questions over and over again and whoever is feeling benevolent that day can throw a few bones to them (us?).
#51
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Those titles only relate to number of posts. They're not meant to imply anything about quality of posts or information provided. There was a time here you could knock out 10,000 posts in a number counting thread and get a title.
#52
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I have maintained for about 2 years that FT/IB needs to get out in front of this blog thing. More and more often, new content is appearing on blogs first, which of course undermines the value of FT. That should scare IB.
I think I've proposed a Blog forum where there is a thread dedicated to each blog miles and points blog. That way, FT can try to capture the discussion that a particular blog generates -- I know that personally, I would rather discuss a blog among FTers, then on the blog itself, for the following reasons:
1. Ability to edit!
2. Less anonymity (sure, we're all handles here, but I know what to expect out of certain handles, even if I don't know the person)
3. Archival purposes
Crazy idea? Sure. Will it work? No idea. But at least it's an attempt to retain the discussion, rather than seeing it all go to the blogs.
I think I've proposed a Blog forum where there is a thread dedicated to each blog miles and points blog. That way, FT can try to capture the discussion that a particular blog generates -- I know that personally, I would rather discuss a blog among FTers, then on the blog itself, for the following reasons:
1. Ability to edit!
2. Less anonymity (sure, we're all handles here, but I know what to expect out of certain handles, even if I don't know the person)
3. Archival purposes
Crazy idea? Sure. Will it work? No idea. But at least it's an attempt to retain the discussion, rather than seeing it all go to the blogs.
#53
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Factually true but unfortunately too many of those with the title think it means something! In some cases it does, in other cases someone has repeated the same old rubbish 10000 times in the belief that if you repeat it often enough somonee must start to listen.
#54
Join Date: Sep 2011
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The irony...
#55
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,032
It's possible to figure out some of the tricks if you use your head and Google. I was able to do it for a while when I looked at that thread a year or so ago. I stopped bothering because I had no desire to fly Y and lacked the time to engage in elaborate positioning. Once you've figured some out, posters are usually helpful if you PM. But, and this is a big but, you have to put in the legwork first, which most people are unwilling to do.
Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 2012 at 8:16 am Reason: removed references to other members
#56
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,032
This response is a perfect example of much of the current FT thinking and is finally being alluded to in this thread. The post had no value to YOU personally which I will gladly agree with. It had value to a newbie who has little knowledge of the SPG program.
And with the current attitude displayed by many on FT of hostility and snarkyness, many newbies have moved to blogs for information instead of stepping into the lions den. I will suggest here, that that attitude may be contributing to the success of the blogs. The major complaint by the new Faces of Flyertalk featured members is the attitude and treatment of newbies and fellow members. They are not treated that way on the blogs.
And with the current attitude displayed by many on FT of hostility and snarkyness, many newbies have moved to blogs for information instead of stepping into the lions den. I will suggest here, that that attitude may be contributing to the success of the blogs. The major complaint by the new Faces of Flyertalk featured members is the attitude and treatment of newbies and fellow members. They are not treated that way on the blogs.
FWIW, I have never felt an attitude of hostility since I've joined FT. I've often posted in country forums, mileage forums, etc. and people have gladly and willingly answered even when I've had stupid questions like the best way to get from LGW to town. The difference is that I usually do some research on my own.
Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 2012 at 8:23 am Reason: comment on another member redacted
#57
Join Date: Sep 2005
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There's a bloody good reason for that - if they make it clear you just know some fool like [redacted] is going to post it with big red arrows and the trick will die like it did with AFWD. Once bitten, twice shy.
It's possible to figure out some of the tricks if you use your head and Google. I was able to do it for a while when I looked at that thread a year or so ago. I stopped bothering because I had no desire to fly Y and lacked the time to engage in elaborate positioning. Once you've figured some out, posters are usually helpful if you PM. But, and this is a big but, you have to put in the legwork first, which most people are unwilling to do.
It's possible to figure out some of the tricks if you use your head and Google. I was able to do it for a while when I looked at that thread a year or so ago. I stopped bothering because I had no desire to fly Y and lacked the time to engage in elaborate positioning. Once you've figured some out, posters are usually helpful if you PM. But, and this is a big but, you have to put in the legwork first, which most people are unwilling to do.
Moreover, the hostility between the posters on the two boards is palpable. Have you ever seen the sniping that goes on the Mileage Run board between the two communities when fares are posted without the YQ? [redacted]
Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 2012 at 8:18 am Reason: removed quoted reference and comment on moderation
#58
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Comment on moderator action removed and one post edited. Reference to other members removed. Please stay on topic and refrain from commenting on specific members.
Regards Oliver2002
Senior Mod
JDiver, TalkBoard Topics Moderator, Senior Moderator
Regards Oliver2002
Senior Mod
JDiver, TalkBoard Topics Moderator, Senior Moderator
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 24, 2012 at 8:46 am Reason: "co-sign" moderator action
#59
Join Date: Nov 2010
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This is exactly why I've always contended it should be moved off Flyertalk entirely. The attitude frequently spills over to the Mileage Run board.
Moreover, the hostility between the posters on the two boards is palpable. Have you ever seen the sniping that goes on the Mileage Run board between the two communities when fares are posted without the YQ? [redacted]
Moreover, the hostility between the posters on the two boards is palpable. Have you ever seen the sniping that goes on the Mileage Run board between the two communities when fares are posted without the YQ? [redacted]
#60
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I hesitated to chime in on this thread, but why not, since I think the attitude in general could be improved, not just to newbies. There is definitely an attitude difference in how some newbies are treated by those who are "more experienced" or who hold some sort of position of authority in FT. It's not everyone who is more experienced who treats newbies in a somewhat hostile manner, and it's not all who are in some position of authority. However, there are some who either disagree with a comment, question, or suggestion, who others who simply think they are always right, always know best, and anyone who questions them or who doesn't know the answer is a bad person.