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Does FT "attitude" drive newbies to blogs?

Does FT "attitude" drive newbies to blogs?

 

Old Aug 19, 12, 5:38 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by jaymar01 View Post
Moreover, your characterization of posters has absolutely no basis in reality. Almost never do I see posters acting like this. I would be more than happy to randomly select a dozen forums on Flyertalk, and challenge you to find me one poster who prefaces a request for help the way you presented it. It simply does not happen, outside of the very rare instance.
I would think this thread fits tcook052's description quite well: OP's failure to "invest" effort results in lack of responses from FT community. Over the years I've been on FT, I'd seen a fair share of newbies like this.

Are all newbies the same? No, of course not. There are newbies and there are newbies. Some came to FT waiting for spoon-fed info and/or handout; some came well-traveled; while some became quick learners and contributing members.

Are all FTers the same? Of course not. There are FTers and there are FTers. Some are quick tempered while some are gentle souls that always take time answering the same newbies questions over and over.

One thing I am certain. The better questions are asked, the more comprehensive responses are gathered.

Originally Posted by Dovster View Post
TalkBoard has absolutely no involvement in how individuals behave.
What the wise Dov said.
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Old Aug 19, 12, 8:50 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by jaymar01 View Post
Moreover, your characterization of posters has absolutely no basis in reality. Almost never do I see posters acting like this. I would be more than happy to randomly select a dozen forums on Flyertalk, and challenge you to find me one poster who prefaces a request for help the way you presented it. It simply does not happen, outside of the very rare instance. Yet, somehow you find it common, and use it to justify the lack of civility on the boards.

The really unfortunate part of all of this is that the Mileage Run board, along with MileBuzz, and the Credit Card forums are where most new members gravitate. They're looking for airline miles and/or flight deals.

And if the message Flyertalk is sending them is reflective of your post, we all lose.
Sorry but you simply cannot compare destination forums to the Trick It thread as they are completely dissimiliar due to the coded phrases and terminology used as well as the complexity of the airline route structure and fare construction all of which require some effort to understand and can't easily be explained as something much more straightforward such as the costs and frequency of trains between Budapest to Kiev, for example. Explaining a concept and giving an answer are quite different things.

And yes, I do frequently see questions as I paraphrased posed in the Trick It thread far more than elsewhere and almost always for the reasons I've given. Understanding what is happening however doesn't mean I condone members responding with incivility as I don't but unfortunetly it's become a trend with FT's increased profile in recent years and the influx of new members, a trend that can be reversed but not overnight and not without the efforts of every member. Discussing how to help improve FT in venues such as this thread I find helpful and is why I visit this forum regularly.
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Old Aug 19, 12, 2:55 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911:19144961
Originally Posted by SkiAdcock View Post
A # of people are helpful & welcoming to newbies; some are snarky. Sometimes regulars tell the snarky folk to lighten up on the newbies. After all we were all newbies at one point. Some forums are known for being snarky; others are not. Perhaps it's due to size & # of posts.
We're seeing some of the snarkiness on the AA forum. With an influx of UA flyers comped in at EXP, there's some new threads that veteran AA posters think should be added to prior threads on the topic, or not posted at all because the topics are covered in the wiki. You won't see me complaining because I could care less and can just bypass threads I'm not interested in, but it does seem to grab some attention on that forum and compel veterans to offer their comments. Mind you these are not new FTers that are starting these threads, but FTers that have been around for a while and are just new to the AA forum.

Still comes down to moderation. If the moderators see a problem, they deal with it. If you have a complaint about a poster, notify a moderator. If you're not happy there, onto the Community Director. Nothing for the Talk Board to get involved with and I can't see a need for any policy changes.
There have been a couple recent.threads in the AA forum that had.some pretty bad snarkiness to newbie and AA newbie, questions. And a lot of.it dished out by people with "honorary FT titles" (Evangelist, etc) Which should be an embarrassment for FT.

Mods took action, but as a new member, the damage is done since they've seen the responses. No i'm not saying only "specially titled" members are guilty.of it. But ity sure makes.a worse impression ec when it happens.

If someone has their posts deleted our redacted repeatedly, for such rude.posts, I don't know why their name should continue to.have a title like that.
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Old Aug 20, 12, 5:08 am
  #49  
 
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Regarding bloggers providing a haven for newbies, this seems hypocritical if bloggers set off a stampede of newbies into a minefield. In the days of the mint deal we had one such newbie rush into ordering a quantity of presidential dollars without the warning that he should have large dollar shipments sent to a secure site. That ended in tragedy for that newbie with a several thousand dollar order. As of today I am aware of at least one newbie building miles with Amazon Payments with a misdirected Amazon Payment of a couple hundred dollars.

It is one thing for a blogger, say mommypoints, to discuss buying goods for miles, but another thing to steer a herd of newbies into purchasing blank negotiable paper that could set them up for significant losses if lost or stolen or cause an account shut down.
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Old Aug 22, 12, 4:19 pm
  #50  
 
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Some thoughts from my short time here:

There is definitely a disdain for people who treat this area as a place to have someone do their work for them. I agree with the post earlier where it was mentioned that you get a better response with a "i tried this but it didnt work so any advice" works a lot better then "mongo need fly for free, make mongo happy".

Regarding the snark: I can definitely see why people would be protective of particular ideas and methodologies. There are presumably a finite number of resources and people should safeguard them accordingly. I've seen it all in my years, 4 years in the Marines and almost 20 years on the internet now ranging from an aol trolling teen to now being employed as what some would call a "white hat". This isnt bad. Not being polite isn't necessarily being mean. At work I still send links to www.lmgtfy.com when my coworkers ask me simple questions I think they should be able to answer. Its not an insult, or maybe it is?

Bloggers: Initially, I used them for basic groundwork. I now use them less, and do my own research and calculations. I may still fall back on them to double check my work, but I try to springboard what they mention and apply it differently. I also still read just to keep up on new offers, etc.

I'm no pro, don't really have the urge to be, but I like to make money stretch, so thats why I check here.

There's little point to actually "drive the newbies off" though, because their still going to lurk. Personally, I'd try to "sandbox" a Q&A board where people can ask the same dozen questions over and over again and whoever is feeling benevolent that day can throw a few bones to them (us?).
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Old Aug 22, 12, 5:30 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by 84fiero View Post
If someone has their posts deleted our redacted repeatedly, for such rude.posts, I don't know why their name should continue to.have a title like that.
Those titles only relate to number of posts. They're not meant to imply anything about quality of posts or information provided. There was a time here you could knock out 10,000 posts in a number counting thread and get a title.
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Old Aug 22, 12, 10:36 pm
  #52  
 
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I have maintained for about 2 years that FT/IB needs to get out in front of this blog thing. More and more often, new content is appearing on blogs first, which of course undermines the value of FT. That should scare IB.

I think I've proposed a Blog forum where there is a thread dedicated to each blog miles and points blog. That way, FT can try to capture the discussion that a particular blog generates -- I know that personally, I would rather discuss a blog among FTers, then on the blog itself, for the following reasons:

1. Ability to edit!
2. Less anonymity (sure, we're all handles here, but I know what to expect out of certain handles, even if I don't know the person)
3. Archival purposes

Crazy idea? Sure. Will it work? No idea. But at least it's an attempt to retain the discussion, rather than seeing it all go to the blogs.
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Old Aug 23, 12, 7:31 am
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911 View Post
Those titles only relate to number of posts. They're not meant to imply anything about quality of posts or information provided. There was a time here you could knock out 10,000 posts in a number counting thread and get a title.
Factually true but unfortunately too many of those with the title think it means something! In some cases it does, in other cases someone has repeated the same old rubbish 10000 times in the belief that if you repeat it often enough somonee must start to listen.
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Old Aug 23, 12, 7:38 am
  #54  
 
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Originally Posted by CodeAdam10 View Post
OP, I checked your posting history and could not find a single evidence of you being ignored or mocked at. In fact, at least (1) FT'er has answered whatever questions you have posted since April.
You tell someone who feels that they are being mocked that they are not being mocked by mocking him?

The irony...
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Old Aug 23, 12, 8:07 am
  #55  
 
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Originally Posted by jaymar01 View Post
This is exactly why the Mileage Run board has become such an awful place to visit. My skin crawls when I read the "tough love" regularly dished out in the Trick it board.
There's a bloody good reason for that - if they make it clear you just know some fool like [readacted] is going to post it with big red arrows and the trick will die like it did with AFWD. Once bitten, twice shy.

It's possible to figure out some of the tricks if you use your head and Google. I was able to do it for a while when I looked at that thread a year or so ago. I stopped bothering because I had no desire to fly Y and lacked the time to engage in elaborate positioning. Once you've figured some out, posters are usually helpful if you PM. But, and this is a big but, you have to put in the legwork first, which most people are unwilling to do.

Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 12 at 8:16 am Reason: removed references to other members
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Old Aug 23, 12, 8:17 am
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by freeloader View Post
Which added nothing tangible other then an affiliate link, unless you didn't know that 5k SPG points has value
Originally Posted by Frugal Travel Guy View Post
This response is a perfect example of much of the current FT thinking and is finally being alluded to in this thread. The post had no value to YOU personally which I will gladly agree with. It had value to a newbie who has little knowledge of the SPG program.

And with the current attitude displayed by many on FT of hostility and snarkyness, many newbies have moved to blogs for information instead of stepping into the lions den. I will suggest here, that that attitude may be contributing to the success of the blogs. The major complaint by the new Faces of Flyertalk featured members is the attitude and treatment of newbies and fellow members. They are not treated that way on the blogs.
I don't know if it says more about you or your readers that they are incapable of figuring out the value of 5k SPG by going to spg.com and clicking redeem and seeing the list of properties. [redacted] So excuse me if I fail to see the value add. My 10 year old nephew could probably do what you are doing. It's not like you are not doing any great public service - you are only catering to lazy idiots - just like crappy 'news reporting' on Fox and CNN does. And in the interest of full disclosure, how come none of the blogs mention that this has been around at least once a year for the last two years and that it's only 5k more than the standard offer?

FWIW, I have never felt an attitude of hostility since I've joined FT. I've often posted in country forums, mileage forums, etc. and people have gladly and willingly answered even when I've had stupid questions like the best way to get from LGW to town. The difference is that I usually do some research on my own.

Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 12 at 8:23 am Reason: comment on another member redacted
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Old Aug 24, 12, 1:01 am
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Originally Posted by abcx View Post
There's a bloody good reason for that - if they make it clear you just know some fool like [redacted] is going to post it with big red arrows and the trick will die like it did with AFWD. Once bitten, twice shy.

It's possible to figure out some of the tricks if you use your head and Google. I was able to do it for a while when I looked at that thread a year or so ago. I stopped bothering because I had no desire to fly Y and lacked the time to engage in elaborate positioning. Once you've figured some out, posters are usually helpful if you PM. But, and this is a big but, you have to put in the legwork first, which most people are unwilling to do.
This is exactly why I've always contended it should be moved off Flyertalk entirely. The attitude frequently spills over to the Mileage Run board.

Moreover, the hostility between the posters on the two boards is palpable. Have you ever seen the sniping that goes on the Mileage Run board between the two communities when fares are posted without the YQ? [redacted]

Last edited by oliver2002; Aug 24, 12 at 8:18 am Reason: removed quoted reference and comment on moderation
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Old Aug 24, 12, 8:20 am
  #58  
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Comment on moderator action removed and one post edited. Reference to other members removed. Please stay on topic and refrain from commenting on specific members.

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Old Aug 24, 12, 8:44 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jaymar01 View Post
This is exactly why I've always contended it should be moved off Flyertalk entirely. The attitude frequently spills over to the Mileage Run board.

Moreover, the hostility between the posters on the two boards is palpable. Have you ever seen the sniping that goes on the Mileage Run board between the two communities when fares are posted without the YQ? [redacted]
I'll agree, 99.9% of FT'ers want to help others. Some times it sounds like people are short, but usually it's because someone wants a quick answer with out any effort being put into it. Most of us learned by reading, reading and reading. I just had one were I pointed out to a ft new poster that the answer was 3 posts above his? I tried to do it in a helpful way and hopefully he got the message to read the thread a little before posting. Also some people are very knowledgeable about a subject and I've seen them post many times the same answer to 10 different readers who missed the first 9 answers. I thank those people because they helped me alot when I started here and I got the message.
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Old Aug 24, 12, 9:29 am
  #60  
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I hesitated to chime in on this thread, but why not, since I think the attitude in general could be improved, not just to newbies. There is definitely an attitude difference in how some newbies are treated by those who are "more experienced" or who hold some sort of position of authority in FT. It's not everyone who is more experienced who treats newbies in a somewhat hostile manner, and it's not all who are in some position of authority. However, there are some who either disagree with a comment, question, or suggestion, who others who simply think they are always right, always know best, and anyone who questions them or who doesn't know the answer is a bad person.
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