Norwegian Air stability through summer?
Jun 4, 2019, 2:42 pm
#271
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
Using SkyScanner and searching for economy class from CPH-MCO-CPH in September, GUWonder is indeed correct. DL/KL fares are $373 all-in, AC/LH $392, BA $354 (with an airport change) and DY is $410 (with the advantage of being direct).
Last edited by SusanDK; Jun 5, 2019 at 12:50 am Reason: to add bold
Jun 4, 2019, 7:09 pm
#272
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
HYou have no clue about what I know and don’t know — this is for sure.
The filed economy class fares for September CPH-US-CPH travel for the TATL-flying industry cartel kingpins was lower than any round trip fare I have ever seen DY sell for September CPH-US-CPH for example.
Sub-$290 all-in ticket prices, with it as low as under €155 round trip on some legacy majors.
https://www.secretflying.com/posts/c...282-roundtrip/
Who is trying to run DY into the ground? Certainly not DY itself, as good a job as they do of it themselves. The predatory pricing is being done by legacy majors, no less so when the variable costs of the legacy majors tend to be higher than the variable costs of an LCC.
The filed economy class fares for September CPH-US-CPH travel for the TATL-flying industry cartel kingpins was lower than any round trip fare I have ever seen DY sell for September CPH-US-CPH for example.
Sub-$290 all-in ticket prices, with it as low as under €155 round trip on some legacy majors.
https://www.secretflying.com/posts/c...282-roundtrip/
Who is trying to run DY into the ground? Certainly not DY itself, as good a job as they do of it themselves. The predatory pricing is being done by legacy majors, no less so when the variable costs of the legacy majors tend to be higher than the variable costs of an LCC.
Jun 4, 2019, 7:27 pm
#273
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
You've compared fares for a while. I thought you posted that Norwegian was the cheapest option when you've searched. Is this a new change, or is this just between fare sales?
Jun 4, 2019, 11:45 pm
#274
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Where is as recent an example of Norwegian having sold lower roundtrip ticket prices for September EU/Schengen-US travel than the ticket prices which I mentioned as being sold by multiple legacy carriers?
Playing fast and loose with the facts — or simply trying to ignore or deflect from “inconvenient” facts — in posts to peddle a delusional narrative in defense of selected favorites is definitely not my posts’ MO. I couldn’t say the same about some other posts I’ve been reading in this thread.
Jun 5, 2019, 12:49 am
#275
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
I only started researching other options for premium economy or business class tickets (one-way and round trip) recently due to the concerns about DY's sustainability and because they recently announced that they will no longer fly TATL direct from CPH starting in the winter 2019-2020 season.
GUWonder posted about round-trip economy tickets in September, so I took a look and posted my findings which support his statements.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:29 am
#276
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
@SusanDK I know its doesn't meet your criteria of direct flights, but TAP offers one way business fares to MIA from CPH. Very inexpensive too. You can set up alerts on google flights, by the way and get daily updates on the prices for your preffered city pair.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:42 am
#277
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: GE
Posts: 247
I find all this speculation amusing. Of course you never know what will happen and I may have to come back and eat my words. But I have my own DY premium economy tickets booked for this summer and I am not worried.
The fuel hedging thing is subtle. Yes, the major US airlines largely do not, but in many ways they are a special case. By and large the three biggest line item costs for any airline (planes fuel and interest on debt) are all USD denominated costs (this is not universally true, but close enough and it is true for DY) which US airlines do not need to hedge. Foreign airlines often do not receive majority USD revenue and thus are exposed to not only oil price risk but currency fluctuation risk on top. Yes it is expensive to hedge all of that risk but that is because the risk is huge. One geopolitical event and your expenses start to grow uncontrollably.
As for the idea that DY isn't charging realistic prices for their seats, well the traditional carriers don't either when a one way premium economy starts to cost US $2500 or US$3000.
The fuel hedging thing is subtle. Yes, the major US airlines largely do not, but in many ways they are a special case. By and large the three biggest line item costs for any airline (planes fuel and interest on debt) are all USD denominated costs (this is not universally true, but close enough and it is true for DY) which US airlines do not need to hedge. Foreign airlines often do not receive majority USD revenue and thus are exposed to not only oil price risk but currency fluctuation risk on top. Yes it is expensive to hedge all of that risk but that is because the risk is huge. One geopolitical event and your expenses start to grow uncontrollably.
As for the idea that DY isn't charging realistic prices for their seats, well the traditional carriers don't either when a one way premium economy starts to cost US $2500 or US$3000.
Jun 5, 2019, 2:51 am
#278
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
DL — the leader of the US3 industry cartel kingpins — made the ultimate fuel hedge bet by going into the fuel business itself. And even when realizing it was a mistake, it didn’t make a big difference to their running of huge profits for years now. DL’s lock on the US market has been strong, and it’s largely due to the various governmental waivers and favors granted to it and the other two US3 cartel kingpins, no less so when it comes to the market of relevance for the market in which DY’s TATL business operates.
When Norwegian goes under, you can bet that their will be some US3 fanboys wanting to dance on Norwegian’s grave. I will dance on the grave of the Bush-Obama granted ATI for DL, AA and UA to collide with their own TATL-flying partners, but unfortunately Norwegian is more likely to die sooner than those Bush-Obama Admin’s waivers and favors granted to AA, DL and UA.
When Norwegian goes under, you can bet that their will be some US3 fanboys wanting to dance on Norwegian’s grave. I will dance on the grave of the Bush-Obama granted ATI for DL, AA and UA to collide with their own TATL-flying partners, but unfortunately Norwegian is more likely to die sooner than those Bush-Obama Admin’s waivers and favors granted to AA, DL and UA.
Jun 5, 2019, 3:09 am
#279
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
@SusanDK I know its doesn't meet your criteria of direct flights, but TAP offers one way business fares to MIA from CPH. Very inexpensive too. You can set up alerts on google flights, by the way and get daily updates on the prices for your preffered city pair.
Jun 5, 2019, 10:08 pm
#280
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SBA and LAX
Programs: AA, UA
Posts: 334
I know there is no cut and dry answer to this, but would you buy a RT on Norwegian for travel in Feb 2020? I *dont* have to be there in BCN but I am trying to string things with a long weekend. I will not make any other reservations till January anyway.
Jun 6, 2019, 6:47 am
#281
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,425
FYI -- Level airlines, the budget carrier owned by BA/Iberia parent company IAG, right now has some extremely low transatlantic fares to Paris and Barcelona from October through March. I bought a roundtrip ticket to Paris for less than $200. Level isn't without its issues, but IAG will definitely be in business. If those cities work for you, this is a good deal. Other than (perhaps) less operational reliability, all you're really giving up compared to the now-typical "Basic Economy" transatlantic fares of the majors is free food/drink on board.
Jun 6, 2019, 10:13 am
#282
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SBA and LAX
Programs: AA, UA
Posts: 334
FYI -- Level airlines, the budget carrier owned by BA/Iberia parent company IAG, right now has some extremely low transatlantic fares to Paris and Barcelona from October through March. I bought a roundtrip ticket to Paris for less than $200. Level isn't without its issues, but IAG will definitely be in business. If those cities work for you, this is a good deal. Other than (perhaps) less operational reliability, all you're really giving up compared to the now-typical "Basic Economy" transatlantic fares of the majors is free food/drink on board.
Jun 6, 2019, 10:42 am
#283
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,425
Right. There are so many discount fares these days that it almost never pays to "reposition." Just wait for a deal from your hometown.
Jun 7, 2019, 12:54 am
#284
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 16
Does anyone have any insight on Norwegian's Oakland routes? I was looking at OAK-BCN a few weeks ago and I could have sworn winter flights were available, but it doesn't appear that Norwegian is listing any flights from Oakland to any destination beginning November (the only Bay Area winter route available is SFO-GTW). I thought maybe the winter schedule wasn't released yet, but I checked LAX and FLL as a sample and they have winter flights listed for a handful of their cities.
Jun 8, 2019, 1:43 pm
#285
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,639
Does anyone have any insight on Norwegian's Oakland routes? I was looking at OAK-BCN a few weeks ago and I could have sworn winter flights were available, but it doesn't appear that Norwegian is listing any flights from Oakland to any destination beginning November (the only Bay Area winter route available is SFO-GTW). I thought maybe the winter schedule wasn't released yet, but I checked LAX and FLL as a sample and they have winter flights listed for a handful of their cities.