Norwegian Air stability through summer?
Aug 14, 2019, 9:43 am
#346
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The three routes dropped yesterday now mean that PVD-DUB flyers will be rerouted out of some other airport, likely BOS and then connect onwards to DUB through CPH or somesuch. Not only the added time & inconvenience of flying xBOS, but the extra time and inconvenience of a connection requiring overflying DUB to double back.
Aug 14, 2019, 10:16 am
#347
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The three routes dropped yesterday now mean that PVD-DUB flyers will be rerouted out of some other airport, likely BOS and then connect onwards to DUB through CPH or somesuch. Not only the added time & inconvenience of flying xBOS, but the extra time and inconvenience of a connection requiring overflying DUB to double back.
At least with airlines like Delta, American, etc, they're often able (and willing) to rebook a passenger on their own aircraft or on partners to fly from the original departure airport to the original destination, although the routing may get more complicated and/or the flight times less convenient.
Last edited by GFrye; Aug 15, 2019 at 4:41 am
Aug 14, 2019, 10:40 pm
#348
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To add to the other posters I am still flying them West Coast to the UK, not booking too far out though. The Premium product is great for a 10 hr flight and beats UA/VS/BA. I would still highly recommend it and hope they make it.
Strategic mistake on the lounge access and on board drinks etc. I think the vision at Norwegian is gone. Zero interest on their part on building a brand and how to make total revenue $ per flight work. They never did understand how business travel works either and the need to actually deal with IROPS for high yield PAX and answer the phone. Companies like Southwest handle all this fine and to their credit United is proactive, even before anything goes wrong.
Norwegian even on a Premium fare, text you that you can get a refund and that is it, Do not even answer the phone. Not a great Premium strategy! Once you lose a customer they tend not to come back. Even at places like LGW they have zero customer facing employees who can actually do anything.
A pity they could not focus on something that makes money. RR and Boeing did not help but that is a poor excuse.
Strategic mistake on the lounge access and on board drinks etc. I think the vision at Norwegian is gone. Zero interest on their part on building a brand and how to make total revenue $ per flight work. They never did understand how business travel works either and the need to actually deal with IROPS for high yield PAX and answer the phone. Companies like Southwest handle all this fine and to their credit United is proactive, even before anything goes wrong.
Norwegian even on a Premium fare, text you that you can get a refund and that is it, Do not even answer the phone. Not a great Premium strategy! Once you lose a customer they tend not to come back. Even at places like LGW they have zero customer facing employees who can actually do anything.
A pity they could not focus on something that makes money. RR and Boeing did not help but that is a poor excuse.
Aug 15, 2019, 5:34 am
#349
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Has something changed with this recently? I do know that they have removed lounge access for discount Premium Economy tickets and only offer it for full-fare Prem Econ Flex. Has there been a recent change regarding on board drinks for Premium passengers as well?
Aug 15, 2019, 8:31 am
#350
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The only year-round Norwegian route from Boston goes to Gatwick. Norwegian doesn't fly from Gatwick to Dublin, so anyone originally booked PVD-DUB would have to go through a lot of hoops to get to DUB. Most likely, Norwegian will be reluctant to rebook on another airline, and the only thing Norwegian will offer is refunding the ticket and let the passenger figure it out on their own.
At least with airlines like Delta, American, etc, they're often able (and willing) to rebook a passenger on their own aircraft or on partners to fly from the original departure airport to the original destination, although the routing may get more complicated and/or the flight times less convenient.
Aug 15, 2019, 8:56 am
#351
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A halfway decent airline would offer to rebook passengers on the BDL-DUB or BOS-DUB flights on EI, but I doubt Norwegian would offer that.
Edit: Norwegian’s CPH-DUB flights end in October, so then the reroute would have to go through ARN or OSL instead.
Last edited by GFrye; Aug 15, 2019 at 9:13 am
Aug 15, 2019, 4:41 pm
#352
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They don’t fly BOS-CPH nonstop, so it’d become BOS-LGW-CPH-DUB or BOS-MAD/CDG/FCO-CPH-DUB (when the seasonal flights operate).
A halfway decent airline would offer to rebook passengers on the BDL-DUB or BOS-DUB flights on EI, but I doubt Norwegian would offer that.
Edit: Norwegian’s CPH-DUB flights end in October, so then the reroute would have to go through ARN or OSL instead.
Even before the cancellations, routine IRROPS turns into a mess and a very, very expensive mess if one does not have solid travel insurance.
Aug 15, 2019, 11:56 pm
#353
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Lounge etc.
Silly stuff but if you want to lure the non backpack people away from the majors at SFO and get the $ yield per flight up, you have to have a soft product game too. They already did the OAK->SFO move and pay the price for that.
As others have pointed out, big vision and not a focus on winning on specific routes. The airlines they want to compete with are serious and Norwegian do not seem to get that. They still get my money and the in flight staff are great. Plan B always needed but they have actually been pretty reliable lately.
Aug 16, 2019, 5:38 am
#354
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
Yes, I knew about the change to lounge access and agree it is poor form. Premium Economy should provide lounge access, whether or not the 'discounted' ticket is purchased. Luckily, I have Priority Pass that is valid in the lounges I frequent most when flying Norwegian, so I'm still able to access the identical lounges as before.
It was your comment about on board drinks that had me curious. Has this changed? Are they now limiting them, or charging, in Premium? Not that it matters much anymore if all the TATL routes are essentially disappearing.
It was your comment about on board drinks that had me curious. Has this changed? Are they now limiting them, or charging, in Premium? Not that it matters much anymore if all the TATL routes are essentially disappearing.
Aug 16, 2019, 5:57 am
#355
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Yes, I knew about the change to lounge access and agree it is poor form. Premium Economy should provide lounge access, whether or not the 'discounted' ticket is purchased. Luckily, I have Priority Pass that is valid in the lounges I frequent most when flying Norwegian, so I'm still able to access the identical lounges as before.
It was your comment about on board drinks that had me curious. Has this changed? Are they now limiting them, or charging, in Premium? Not that it matters much anymore if all the TATL routes are essentially disappearing.
It was your comment about on board drinks that had me curious. Has this changed? Are they now limiting them, or charging, in Premium? Not that it matters much anymore if all the TATL routes are essentially disappearing.
There is no such thing as free access to a lounge or alcohol. A service is either included or not. The question then is in the case of Norwegian's market are passengers willing to pay for these enhanced services through higher ticket prices.
Aug 16, 2019, 6:28 am
#356
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While it should be self-evident that I am not a fan of Norwegian, less so now that it is circling the drain, what ought to be included (or not) is a matter of consumer pricing and demand.
There is no such thing as free access to a lounge or alcohol. A service is either included or not. The question then is in the case of Norwegian's market are passengers willing to pay for these enhanced services through higher ticket prices.
There is no such thing as free access to a lounge or alcohol. A service is either included or not. The question then is in the case of Norwegian's market are passengers willing to pay for these enhanced services through higher ticket prices.
I get it that the supporters of the US3 lobbying groups don’t like Norwegian and want to see Norwegian disappear like yesterday, but wishing for Norwegian to be buried and trying to give the Airlines For America lobbying group type of spin doesn’t answer SusanDK’s question.
Aug 16, 2019, 8:16 am
#357
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Join Date: Mar 2000
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To add to the other posters I am still flying them West Coast to the UK, not booking too far out though. The Premium product is great for a 10 hr flight and beats UA/VS/BA. I would still highly recommend it and hope they make it.
Strategic mistake on the lounge access and on board drinks etc. I think the vision at Norwegian is gone. Zero interest on their part on building a brand and how to make total revenue $ per flight work. They never did understand how business travel works either and the need to actually deal with IROPS for high yield PAX and answer the phone. Companies like Southwest handle all this fine and to their credit United is proactive, even before anything goes wrong.
Norwegian even on a Premium fare, text you that you can get a refund and that is it, Do not even answer the phone. Not a great Premium strategy! Once you lose a customer they tend not to come back. Even at places like LGW they have zero customer facing employees who can actually do anything.
A pity they could not focus on something that makes money. RR and Boeing did not help but that is a poor excuse.
Strategic mistake on the lounge access and on board drinks etc. I think the vision at Norwegian is gone. Zero interest on their part on building a brand and how to make total revenue $ per flight work. They never did understand how business travel works either and the need to actually deal with IROPS for high yield PAX and answer the phone. Companies like Southwest handle all this fine and to their credit United is proactive, even before anything goes wrong.
Norwegian even on a Premium fare, text you that you can get a refund and that is it, Do not even answer the phone. Not a great Premium strategy! Once you lose a customer they tend not to come back. Even at places like LGW they have zero customer facing employees who can actually do anything.
A pity they could not focus on something that makes money. RR and Boeing did not help but that is a poor excuse.
Meanwhile, I've been helping out a few friends and family this week who are planning various early fall trips from the USA to Europe. Norwegian had no price advantage over their competitors, except if you were just looking for a one-way ticket. At the same price, who now is going to mess with Norwegian if there are reasonable alternatives? Few, I suspect, which isn't going to help their cause. FWIW, the best travel option for most of my friends was to use their DL miles. DL is (was?) having a "flash sale" charging about 30,000 miles roundtrip for Sept. coach travel to many European destinations. DL is obviously a decent airline, and for that price they get a seat assignment and even a free checked bag. With the advent of "basic economy" across the Atlantic, using miles can be a good deal when they have special pricing.
Aug 16, 2019, 9:39 pm
#358
Join Date: May 2005
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Economy
For any kind of business travel, the Southwest model where you *always* buy one ways and they are refundable/re-fareable, seems to work for them. This round trip thing for TATL is silly. For close in, just jump on the bus, Premium travel, Norwegian are perfect. United *always* have last minute cheap one way mileage seats, if anything goes wrong with DY/Rednose.
Surviving the winter is going to be the hard part! The MAX mess may actually help with that problem and stop them doing stupid things. As someone pointed out the value of the Trent 787s on the balance sheet is a whole other problem for them. Think this is the only airframe you can swap engines to the other vendor post manufacture so maybe GE will come to the rescue, with a trade in plan!
All that being said ... Norwegian still get my travel for US-UK. I hope they keep at it with a less crazy business plan and management. Head to head with the majors, you really need to focus route by route! Laker and People Express did not have much fun doing that, nor did Virgin but for them service and not price let them survive (kindof).
Aug 16, 2019, 10:29 pm
#359
Join Date: May 2005
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To kindof answer Susan
A macro-cosmic response may be true, but that response is neither of relevance to, nor an answer for, the question asked by SusanDK. But if you have an answer to SusanDK’s question, then the people who are interested in the answer to the relevant question and care about the inclusion/exclusion of alcoholic beverages would have something factual to consider when it comes to booking and flying Norwegian flights.
I get it that the supporters of the US3 lobbying groups don’t like Norwegian and want to see Norwegian disappear like yesterday, but wishing for Norwegian to be buried and trying to give the Airlines For America lobbying group type of spin doesn’t answer SusanDK’s question.
Lounge access pretty much everyone has anyway if they stick to a carrier they have status with, or PP. The problem is that this creates sales friction by telling people if they buy a cheap Premium fare, they are not really valued as customers verses their status carrier. This is silly for probably the $20 or so Norwegian have to pay for it.
The idiot carry on weighing, for people who get free checked bags anyway, is another negative (non revenue producing) "feature". This makes people think they are on a dinky basic Premium product, regardless of fare paid . Norwegian marketing need to fly the competition and not stick to a vision of their model. There are good reasons why Southwest/EasyJet/RyanAir do not want to play the 2 cabin game and this is another one of them.
Would be nice if Norwegian monitored flyertalk. United and Southwest do for sure and respond.
Aug 17, 2019, 4:03 am
#360
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: CPH
Posts: 224
To answer Susan, Norwegian do not serve anything other than free Wine/Beer any more in Premium plus the marginal but quite survivable food. I think now the same as what United offers in even Basic Economy but I may be wrong. DY has free wifi now on some 787-9's though but it has never worked on a flight I have been on. This is expensive on a legacy carrier, so would more than compensate for the lack of free cocktails!
Lounge access pretty much everyone has anyway if they stick to a carrier they have status with, or PP. The problem is that this creates sales friction by telling people if they buy a cheap Premium fare, they are not really valued as customers verses their status carrier. This is silly for probably the $20 or so Norwegian have to pay for it.
The idiot carry on weighing, for people who get free checked bags anyway, is another negative (non revenue producing) "feature". This makes people think they are on a dinky basic Premium product, regardless of fare paid . Norwegian marketing need to fly the competition and not stick to a vision of their model. There are good reasons why Southwest/EasyJet/RyanAir do not want to play the 2 cabin game and this is another one of them.
Would be nice if Norwegian monitored flyertalk. United and Southwest do for sure and respond.
Lounge access pretty much everyone has anyway if they stick to a carrier they have status with, or PP. The problem is that this creates sales friction by telling people if they buy a cheap Premium fare, they are not really valued as customers verses their status carrier. This is silly for probably the $20 or so Norwegian have to pay for it.
The idiot carry on weighing, for people who get free checked bags anyway, is another negative (non revenue producing) "feature". This makes people think they are on a dinky basic Premium product, regardless of fare paid . Norwegian marketing need to fly the competition and not stick to a vision of their model. There are good reasons why Southwest/EasyJet/RyanAir do not want to play the 2 cabin game and this is another one of them.
Would be nice if Norwegian monitored flyertalk. United and Southwest do for sure and respond.
The carry-on issue really does puzzle me. The allowance in discounted Premium is 10 kg. vs. 15 kg. in ful fare Premium. The consistency of having your carry-on weighed varies wildly. At some airports they will never weigh it, at some they will always weigh it and at some it seems like it's up to the check-in person.
Also, I find it funny that there' are posters here who've been posting about Norwegians imminent demise for years now.