Norwegian Air stability through summer?
Jun 3, 2019, 12:39 pm
#241
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You're comparing one item with a low fixed cost (insurance) to a high variable cost (hedging).
And frankly, fuel costs are input costs for airlines; those costs should be passed on to customers. If fuel prices rise by 50%, airline ticket prices should rise to cover the increased fuel costs. The air travel industry isn't a charity operation and margins are razor thin - the appropriate business decision is to raise prices when input costs rise. Or the airline can sell their product at below cost and eventually go out of business.
And frankly, fuel costs are input costs for airlines; those costs should be passed on to customers. If fuel prices rise by 50%, airline ticket prices should rise to cover the increased fuel costs. The air travel industry isn't a charity operation and margins are razor thin - the appropriate business decision is to raise prices when input costs rise. Or the airline can sell their product at below cost and eventually go out of business.
More baffling though would be why Norwegian would try to hedge knowing its limited capital position. Hedging fuel is a recipe for financial loss; hedging fuel when you don't have adequate capital to fund a "margin call" on your hedge is a recipe for going out of business.
Jun 3, 2019, 1:19 pm
#242
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What should one do to protect against loss if purchasing a Norwegian ticket in the coming months?
My husband and I will be buying a one-way transatlantic flight originating in CPH, probably in the next two months, and most likely only a couple of weeks in advance. I usually purchase the insurance offered by DY when buying the ticket but I believe this is primarily to cover a potential cancellation by pax for a non-refundable flight due to illness and I doubt it covers the airline's insolvency.
Is any particular credit card better than another to protect against loss (I have both a US AmEx Cent and an IDC AmEx Platinum, the latter of which I think may have better travel insurance).
In past years, one was always cautioned to purchase a flight with at least one night's hotel booked because [EU?] travel insurance will cover a loss due to an airline's bankruptcy only if the trip was booked as a "package" (which required at least
one night hotel). But we don't need a hotel so would only be booking a one-way flight.
My husband and I will be buying a one-way transatlantic flight originating in CPH, probably in the next two months, and most likely only a couple of weeks in advance. I usually purchase the insurance offered by DY when buying the ticket but I believe this is primarily to cover a potential cancellation by pax for a non-refundable flight due to illness and I doubt it covers the airline's insolvency.
Is any particular credit card better than another to protect against loss (I have both a US AmEx Cent and an IDC AmEx Platinum, the latter of which I think may have better travel insurance).
In past years, one was always cautioned to purchase a flight with at least one night's hotel booked because [EU?] travel insurance will cover a loss due to an airline's bankruptcy only if the trip was booked as a "package" (which required at least
one night hotel). But we don't need a hotel so would only be booking a one-way flight.
Jun 3, 2019, 1:24 pm
#243
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
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I definitely bet wrong that I didn't need to purchase early for late September; CDG-OAK on 9/26 is up to $1,400 with premium cabin 25 of 35 premium seats full at this point.
Discount premium (~$800) still available for the first half of the month; late September appears busier than early for some reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Discount premium (~$800) still available for the first half of the month; late September appears busier than early for some reason ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Owned by Groupe Dubreuil. https://www.groupedubreuil.com/
I don't know anything about their finances.
Jun 3, 2019, 1:34 pm
#244
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
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What should one do to protect against loss if purchasing a Norwegian ticket in the coming months?
My husband and I will be buying a one-way transatlantic flight originating in CPH, probably in the next two months, and most likely only a couple of weeks in advance. I usually purchase the insurance offered by DY when buying the ticket but I believe this is primarily to cover a potential cancellation by pax for a non-refundable flight due to illness and I doubt it covers the airline's insolvency.
Is any particular credit card better than another to protect against loss (I have both a US AmEx Cent and an IDC AmEx Platinum, the latter of which I think may have better travel insurance).
In past years, one was always cautioned to purchase a flight with at least one night's hotel booked because [EU?] travel insurance will cover a loss due to an airline's bankruptcy only if the trip was booked as a "package" (which required at least one night hotel). But we don't need a hotel so would only be booking a one-way flight.
My husband and I will be buying a one-way transatlantic flight originating in CPH, probably in the next two months, and most likely only a couple of weeks in advance. I usually purchase the insurance offered by DY when buying the ticket but I believe this is primarily to cover a potential cancellation by pax for a non-refundable flight due to illness and I doubt it covers the airline's insolvency.
Is any particular credit card better than another to protect against loss (I have both a US AmEx Cent and an IDC AmEx Platinum, the latter of which I think may have better travel insurance).
In past years, one was always cautioned to purchase a flight with at least one night's hotel booked because [EU?] travel insurance will cover a loss due to an airline's bankruptcy only if the trip was booked as a "package" (which required at least one night hotel). But we don't need a hotel so would only be booking a one-way flight.
A problem with CPH is that you'll have limited choices for travel back to the US. If you can connect through a city with more transatlantic service, you will have better pricing options. As a backup plan, you may want to take a look at a stopover in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Brussels. All of those cities should offer multiple airline choices at competitive pricing.
Jun 3, 2019, 2:10 pm
#245
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
For a one-way ticket, I have been unable to find anything even close to reasonable. We have had to book one-way flights since our schedule is unknown in advance, and I have thus far been unable to find a competitively-priced alternative to DY when not booking a return. I'll be following the developments closely in the coming weeks and months.
Jun 3, 2019, 2:44 pm
#246
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,639
French Bee premium ORY-SFO 25 or 27 Sep. $892 one way.
Owned by Groupe Dubreuil. https://www.groupedubreuil.com/
I don't know anything about their finances.
Owned by Groupe Dubreuil. https://www.groupedubreuil.com/
I don't know anything about their finances.
Jun 3, 2019, 2:53 pm
#247
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
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For a one-way ticket, I have been unable to find anything even close to reasonable. We have had to book one-way flights since our schedule is unknown in advance, and I have thus far been unable to find a competitively-priced alternative to DY when not booking a return. I'll be following the developments closely in the coming weeks and months.
Thomas Cook; they actually will book you CPH-MCO with a stop in MAN. Look pretty reasonably priced to me.
Took me less than 5 minutes to find them.
Again, I don't know their financial stability.
Jun 3, 2019, 3:02 pm
#248
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Jun 3, 2019, 3:21 pm
#249
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Thanks. We already booked most of the tickets for our party; I'm the only one left so I'm just watching and hoping it'll drop back but if not I'll be ponying up the $1,300. It's worth quite a bit to us, traveling with a toddler, to arrive earlier at OAK than later at SFO.
You're travelling with a toddler and you booked everyone else in your party except yourself?
With zero flexibility as to date and arrival airport (SFO-OAK is only 31 miles)?
And now, 3 1/2 months out with the premium cabin 3/4 sold out, you're expecting prices to decline? (those remaining seats will stay at the higher fare buckets until very close in to departure date)
That ticket price is very unlikely to decline, even with fare sales.
Jun 3, 2019, 4:02 pm
#250
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,639
Let me see if I've got this straight -
You're travelling with a toddler and you booked everyone else in your party except yourself?
With zero flexibility as to date and arrival airport (SFO-OAK is only 31 miles)?
And now, 3 1/2 months out with the premium cabin 3/4 sold out, you're expecting prices to decline? (those remaining seats will stay at the higher fare buckets until very close in to departure date)
That ticket price is very unlikely to decline, even with fare sales.
You're travelling with a toddler and you booked everyone else in your party except yourself?
With zero flexibility as to date and arrival airport (SFO-OAK is only 31 miles)?
And now, 3 1/2 months out with the premium cabin 3/4 sold out, you're expecting prices to decline? (those remaining seats will stay at the higher fare buckets until very close in to departure date)
That ticket price is very unlikely to decline, even with fare sales.
Landing at OAK, we'll be first off the plane, with GE, and 15 min from home, vs, at SFO with who knows how many other international arrivals going through customs and then 45-60+ min from home. After an 11 hour flight (again, with a toddler), that's a huge difference.
Jun 3, 2019, 4:15 pm
#251
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Booked everyone except myself because yesterday we booked the final two tickets at the cheaper fare class. I've been wrong before about this flight but I figure it's unlikely the just-opened higher fare sells out immediately. I don't expect it to decline but I also expect to have at least a few days to watch it.
Landing at OAK, we'll be first off the plane, with GE, and 15 min from home, vs, at SFO with who knows how many other international arrivals going through customs and then 45-60+ min from home. After an 11 hour flight (again, with a toddler), that's a huge difference.
Landing at OAK, we'll be first off the plane, with GE, and 15 min from home, vs, at SFO with who knows how many other international arrivals going through customs and then 45-60+ min from home. After an 11 hour flight (again, with a toddler), that's a huge difference.
Last edited by iflyjetz; Jun 3, 2019 at 4:26 pm
Jun 3, 2019, 4:17 pm
#252
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,639
Then you actually got a couple of tickets at the lower price and are already completely committed to that single flight. Assuming that the airline uses rational pricing models (I know, a big stretch), the ticket price will not decline; there are too few remaining premium seats. The ticket price on Norwegian will only rise because they're not going to discount the remaining fare buckets.
Edit: Saw a few more seats fill in so I bit the bullet and purchased. Live and learn.
Last edited by ucdtim17; Jun 3, 2019 at 4:37 pm
Jun 3, 2019, 6:13 pm
#253
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
https://www.gocompare.com/travel-ins...ure-insurance/
Jun 4, 2019, 1:25 am
#254
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,774
Honestly, the travel that we've had to do this past year and a half has taken its toll - physically as much as financially - so a comfortable flight is as important as being cost effective. DY's direct flight in premium economy that didn't break the bank has really been appreciated, albeit I now recognize from this thread is unsustainable for them.
Most of my research has been with the 1-connection options (LH via FRA; AC via YYZ; SK via EWR, IAD or ORD; DL via AMS; FI via KEF; VS via MAN) in at least premium economy and they have been quite expensive when only booking one-way. I'm hoping that after the next trip or two, we will be able to start booking round-trip tickets that originate in the U.S. because I have found more reasonable fares for that itinerary.
Jun 4, 2019, 1:50 am
#255
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If DY goes bust before you take your flight and you paid with DK/EU credit card then the credit card company can reverse the charges and refund you. US based credit cards operate similarly. As for trip interruption (due to BK/insolvency) insurance, it gets more tricky. As the frequency of airlines going bust in Europe increases, the willingness of insurance companies willing to offer such policies is decreasing rapidly. ERV in Germany used to have a policy that covered for exactly such cases.