Peak and off peak Awards (General Discussion)
Aug 17, 2019, 8:56 pm
#196
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,917
The (Standard) Points remain as we learned earlier, under the "Points" tab. They still have an Off Peak, Standard, and Peak. There is a separate chart in the PointSavers tab, which also has Off Peak, Standard, and Peak.
https://www.marriott.com/loyalty/red...ointsavers-tab
https://www.marriott.com/loyalty/red...ointsavers-tab
Aug 17, 2019, 10:10 pm
#197
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Airport
Programs: Delta PM
Posts: 183
I am constantly surprised at the places I see new Hyatt properties spring up.
Aug 18, 2019, 12:33 am
#198
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Southern California, USA
Programs: Marriott Ambassador and LTT, UA Plat/LT Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 8,764
There is a huge difference between knowing that peak/off-peak is coming and now learning that it will be dynamic with little ability to plan your redemptions. From what we now know, and didn't know 18 months ago, Marriott could see that a given weekend 5 months from now is going to be very busy at a property and decide to activate peak pricing. If someone has been earning points with the goal of staying at that property and suddenly finds that the points they need will be higher than expected, it could easily ruin their plans. That lack of transparency is really not acceptable and demoralizing.
Aug 18, 2019, 3:53 am
#199
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
There is a huge difference between knowing that peak/off-peak is coming and now learning that it will be dynamic with little ability to plan your redemptions. From what we now know, and didn't know 18 months ago, Marriott could see that a given weekend 5 months from now is going to be very busy at a property and decide to activate peak pricing. If someone has been earning points with the goal of staying at that property and suddenly finds that the points they need will be higher than expected, it could easily ruin their plans. That lack of transparency is really not acceptable and demoralizing.
with so much uncertainty, why not just book now?
if off-peak, book new off peak rate and cancel standard booking.
if you don’t have the points, you are subjected to more uncertainty. The category can change, too.
what Marriott did make gaming the system much harder than before. I guess members got angry without means to game the system...
Last edited by freed0m; Aug 18, 2019 at 4:13 am
Aug 18, 2019, 4:28 am
#200
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
Curious question.
If I have a point booking (not point advance) for .. say January 2020 at standard rate and in December 2019 the rate change to off peak rate for the same date.
If I cancel my current reservation, does the room immediately returned to the inventory?
Or it is safer for me to make a new booking with the off peak rate first and then cancel the original booking ?
Doing this might not feasible for members who don't have enough points to cover both reservations
And also what time it takes to return the original point from the original booking ?
If it is not returned immediately then again people with just enough point to cover that reservation face higher risk the room no longer available
Second question, about point advance
Never made any point advance reservation, so not very sure about the mechanic of the said system.
Say I made a point advance reservation for January 2020 again.
Can I made PA reservation even if I have enough point to cover the reservation?
Once I have enough point to cover the reservation, do I need to "pay" the reservation manually with the point or the system automatically change it to confirmed booking once there are sufficient points in the account ?
If I have a point booking (not point advance) for .. say January 2020 at standard rate and in December 2019 the rate change to off peak rate for the same date.
If I cancel my current reservation, does the room immediately returned to the inventory?
Or it is safer for me to make a new booking with the off peak rate first and then cancel the original booking ?
Doing this might not feasible for members who don't have enough points to cover both reservations
And also what time it takes to return the original point from the original booking ?
If it is not returned immediately then again people with just enough point to cover that reservation face higher risk the room no longer available
Second question, about point advance
Never made any point advance reservation, so not very sure about the mechanic of the said system.
Say I made a point advance reservation for January 2020 again.
Can I made PA reservation even if I have enough point to cover the reservation?
Once I have enough point to cover the reservation, do I need to "pay" the reservation manually with the point or the system automatically change it to confirmed booking once there are sufficient points in the account ?
Aug 18, 2019, 4:50 am
#201
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E75, Marriott LT Ti, IHG Dia Amb, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 15,521
Curious question.
If I have a point booking (not point advance) for .. say January 2020 at standard rate and in December 2019 the rate change to off peak rate for the same date.
If I cancel my current reservation, does the room immediately returned to the inventory?
Or it is safer for me to make a new booking with the off peak rate first and then cancel the original booking ?
Doing this might not feasible for members who don't have enough points to cover both reservations
And also what time it takes to return the original point from the original booking ?
If it is not returned immediately then again people with just enough point to cover that reservation face higher risk the room no longer available
Second question, about point advance
Never made any point advance reservation, so not very sure about the mechanic of the said system.
Say I made a point advance reservation for January 2020 again.
Can I made PA reservation even if I have enough point to cover the reservation?
Once I have enough point to cover the reservation, do I need to "pay" the reservation manually with the point or the system automatically change it to confirmed booking once there are sufficient points in the account ?
If I have a point booking (not point advance) for .. say January 2020 at standard rate and in December 2019 the rate change to off peak rate for the same date.
If I cancel my current reservation, does the room immediately returned to the inventory?
Or it is safer for me to make a new booking with the off peak rate first and then cancel the original booking ?
Doing this might not feasible for members who don't have enough points to cover both reservations
And also what time it takes to return the original point from the original booking ?
If it is not returned immediately then again people with just enough point to cover that reservation face higher risk the room no longer available
Second question, about point advance
Never made any point advance reservation, so not very sure about the mechanic of the said system.
Say I made a point advance reservation for January 2020 again.
Can I made PA reservation even if I have enough point to cover the reservation?
Once I have enough point to cover the reservation, do I need to "pay" the reservation manually with the point or the system automatically change it to confirmed booking once there are sufficient points in the account ?
The system no longer allows PA reservations if there are enough points in your account. (A way around this is to make a dummy booking to tie up all your points.) The system will not automatically confirm the booking when you have enough points. You have to request it. Also note that with PA reservations, you no longer get a confirmation email, so make sure you take a screen shot or print out of your reservation, or send a confirmation to yourself.
Aug 18, 2019, 6:23 am
#202
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,682
with so much uncertainty, why not just book now?
if off-peak, book new off peak rate and cancel standard booking.
if you don’t have the points, you are subjected to more uncertainty. The category can change, too.
what Marriott did make gaming the system much harder than before. I guess members got angry without means to game the system...
if off-peak, book new off peak rate and cancel standard booking.
if you don’t have the points, you are subjected to more uncertainty. The category can change, too.
what Marriott did make gaming the system much harder than before. I guess members got angry without means to game the system...
with spg we knew when the peak dates will be & therefore we knew when the properties would require more points....there was no guess work....a lot of people had hoped that marriott would be as transparent as spg was when it came to peak & non-peak pricing....unfortunately they have decided not to be transparent at all....
not everyone has a huge points balance all the time....a lot of people collect points for a long period of time to redeem once or twice a year....this non-transparency could lead to a situation for example where a member is in the process of collecting 340k points to redeem 5 nights at a cat 8 property, only to find out a month or so before the stay that marriott is expecting high demand so now 400k points will be required for the same stay....with spg, the member knew whether the property was going to charge peak or standard rates for their stay dates....with marriott there might be no way to know that for sure....
Aug 18, 2019, 6:32 am
#203
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
I don’t know much about these PointSavers awards but why would that still be in effect once Off Peak is in effect? Weren’t they in essence previously off peak amounts?
Aug 18, 2019, 7:53 am
#204
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
i don't think anyone is looking to game the system with peak or off peak pricing....also, category increases typically take place once a year in march....random cat changes happen at other times of the year as well but are extremely rare....
with spg we knew when the peak dates will be & therefore we knew when the properties would require more points....there was no guess work....a lot of people had hoped that marriott would be as transparent as spg was when it came to peak & non-peak pricing....unfortunately they have decided not to be transparent at all....
not everyone has a huge points balance all the time....a lot of people collect points for a long period of time to redeem once or twice a year....this non-transparency could lead to a situation for example where a member is in the process of collecting 340k points to redeem 5 nights at a cat 8 property, only to find out a month or so before the stay that marriott is expecting high demand so now 400k points will be required for the same stay....with spg, the member knew whether the property was going to charge peak or standard rates for their stay dates....with marriott there might be no way to know that for sure....
with spg we knew when the peak dates will be & therefore we knew when the properties would require more points....there was no guess work....a lot of people had hoped that marriott would be as transparent as spg was when it came to peak & non-peak pricing....unfortunately they have decided not to be transparent at all....
not everyone has a huge points balance all the time....a lot of people collect points for a long period of time to redeem once or twice a year....this non-transparency could lead to a situation for example where a member is in the process of collecting 340k points to redeem 5 nights at a cat 8 property, only to find out a month or so before the stay that marriott is expecting high demand so now 400k points will be required for the same stay....with spg, the member knew whether the property was going to charge peak or standard rates for their stay dates....with marriott there might be no way to know that for sure....
what SPG has was imperfect... peak dates are not fixed. It should be dynamic. It also make gaming the system possible, e.g unforeseen events. If Marriott implements right, dynamic peak dates should be the way to go. It balances the relationship among Marriott, property owners and loyalty members.
If you don’t have the points, you shall not have the room. There is nothing wrong. It is more like cash booking. You don’t have the money, you can’t make the booking. When you have the money, the price may change.
Aug 18, 2019, 8:27 am
#205
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
Programs: Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Trident Plat, DL Diamond, AI Maharajah
Posts: 29,682
agree to disagree....most cities across the world have peak & off peak travel months....
sorry but that makes no sense....with a refundable cash rate you can make a booking months in advance & don't have to worry about a rate chance....you pay the rate you reserved when you are at the property....with no transparency in peak awards you could be stuck with a higher rate at the last minute & find yourself short....its nothing like a cash booking at all....
Aug 18, 2019, 9:01 am
#206
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
agree to disagree....most cities across the world have peak & off peak travel months....
if marriott implements right....that's the important part....i don't agree with the dynamic bit at all....
sorry but that makes no sense....with a refundable cash rate you can make a booking months in advance & don't have to worry about a rate chance....you pay the rate you reserved when you are at the property....with no transparency in peak awards you could be stuck with a higher rate at the last minute & find yourself short....its nothing like a cash booking at all....
you clearly understand what I said. You need the money to make the booking. It is not a flexible booking....
Aug 18, 2019, 9:18 am
#207
In memoriam
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MAN
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, IHG Spire, UA Silver, Dennis The Menace Fan Club
Posts: 1,457
I used to view points advance as roughly equivalent to cash flex rates, and very much viewed my points as equivalent to “hotel money”. The new points advance changes make points a second rate currency since you don’t actually know what the bill will be till you pay up, namely :-
I reserve a cash flex rate room. I don’t pay till I checkout, and the price I pay is the one I agreed when I reserved the room, not the price prevalent on the day.
I reserve a points advance room. I don’t pay the points till 2 weeks before checkin and the price I pay is the one I agreed when I reserved the room, not the points prevalent on the day of payment.
After 14 September -
I reserve a points advance room. I don’t pay the points till 2 weeks before checkin but the points I pay are the points prevalent on the day of payment.
I reserve a cash flex rate room. I don’t pay till I checkout, and the price I pay is the one I agreed when I reserved the room, not the price prevalent on the day.
I reserve a points advance room. I don’t pay the points till 2 weeks before checkin and the price I pay is the one I agreed when I reserved the room, not the points prevalent on the day of payment.
After 14 September -
I reserve a points advance room. I don’t pay the points till 2 weeks before checkin but the points I pay are the points prevalent on the day of payment.
Aug 18, 2019, 9:23 am
#208
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: India
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not at all....what you are saying makes no sense....this situation has nothing to do with a cash booking....your statement that this is a like a cash booking is not relevant here at all....
Aug 18, 2019, 9:53 am
#209
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
In another thread, I wrote, "For example, imagine a city with three category 6 hotels, but one of them typically charges lower cash rates than the other two because its location and other attributes don't quite measure up. Instead of dropping to a lower category, it offers PointSaver rates.
"A few years ago, I used a PointSaver rate to get the Brooklyn Bridge Marriott for fewer points than full-service Marriotts of the same category on Manhattan. For next year, I'm looking at Liverpool, UK, where the full-service Marriott is a category higher than the Aloft, but the full-service Marriott is a PointSaver, reducing the difference in points between it and the newer, better-located (for tourists) Aloft."
As has been noted in this thread, the PointSaver chart also has Off-Peak, Standard, and Peak columns beginning September 14. Hotels now have a lot of flexibility in what any given night costs in Points, without changing categories.
It remains to be seen if PointSaver rates become more common or less common going forward.
Aug 18, 2019, 10:26 am
#210
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: Alaska
Posts: 2,188
why should it not be? Points are just another form of currency. It is not a different hotel room or from different inventory.
if it costs more cash, it should cost more points.